Nutmeg Maestro With an Afro : Viera Marcelo

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Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:54 pm

I don't think this is his last season here. I think we get a new manager in summer who gives Marcelo assurances to stay. The problem is that everyone in the world knows his defensive frailty apart from Solari. Otherwise Solari would have more of a tactical plan to cover for Marcelo's defensive issues.

Solari plays dinosaur ball with defensive fullbacks and traditional wingers. Marcelo, as an attacking wingback essentially, just doesn't fit Solari's system and Solari is unwilling to have ANY tactical flexibility to cover Marcelo's weaknesses. Of course Marcelo looks a lot worse than he normally would, the player profile he has clashes directly with the way Solari wants a LB to play.

We get a new coach with more tactical understanding of modern football and this issue goes away imo. It would be an incredibly sad day when we throw away one of our best offensive weapons, a club legend, who happens to be our best LB of all time over a bad 6 months.

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Post by Doc on Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:03 pm

Everyone harping on Sarri's rigidness but Solari is just as bad.

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Post by Thimmy on Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:18 pm

I don't think it's been as long as 6 months. He saved our asses a few times, earlier in the season, and was generally playing decently well when everyone else looked jaded. At the very least, he was not among our most underwhelming players. I just don't think it looks like he's got his head in the game right now. I would assume he's physically fit enough to be very useful to us as a super sub or rotational player, but that matters little if he doesn't genuinely want to win with this team. His issue isn't purely tactical, from what I can tell. He's been letting opposing players pass him by, even when he's been in the right place, at the right time.

The club needs to figure out what he wants. If he really wants to stay, I expect him to bounce back by the end of the season. That wouldn't compensate for his shortcomings in recent months, but then we can at least establish that it's not an issue of professionality or lack of morale/motivation, which makes it easier to decide what to do with him, going into next season.

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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:27 pm

err, No way Marcelo is better than Roberto Carlos!!!!

But otherwise I agree completely with you, Deez, esp. the assessment of Solari. There are people on here, suggesting he just might be the 2nd coming of Zidane. scratch
that is until he gets exposed against Barca and in the qtrs in CL!!!
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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:05 pm

Marcelo is better than Carlos at pretty much everything, how is that even a debate lol


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Post by Mamad on Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:26 pm

Carlos wasn't a great defender but still way better than Marcelo at defending. way more pace, better shot and better passing imo.

Dribbling and creativity nobody touches Marcelo though.

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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:33 pm

Way better ? You're making it sound like Marcelo is some numpty or sth

Carlos was a better shooter from distance but Marcelo is a better finisher from inside the area. Passing is a no go, Marcelo's linkup play is insane and his passing overall isn't shaby either, not far from the best of the world. At his best he eats Carlos alive and I love Roberto. Marcelo is just something else, has the skillset of the best midfielders out there and with energy to play as a winger while playing LB

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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:10 pm

I get a real kick out you kids making statements about players you probably never saw!

Tito, Sports, can you lent an opinion here?
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Post by Doc on Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:22 pm

If I recall correctly, Carlos had a similar drop off in performance too. Maybe I'm remembering wrong or too harshly. Anyway, the fact Valk has to talk about non FB attributes to "get one over" Carlos is a bit funny. He is not wrong in what he wrote, I don't find so anyway but RC was the better FB in terms of what a FB actually brings. I wanna say way better.

To put it in perspective, you had be actually skillful to beat Carlos in his prime like Figo and Rivaldo would do. Carlos was not gonna get turn inside out by every decent winger he faced the way Marcelo gets treated.

Two legendary full backs for the club though to go along with the very much forgotten Jose Antonio Camacho. I wonder if time would completely eradicate his memory hmm

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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:24 pm

Pretty sure I watched more of Carlos than you did of Di Stefano

@futbol_bill wrote:err, No way Marcelo is better than Roberto Carlos!!!!


This is all you could come out with, old man, and then you ask for sports and tito. Comment on your statement first.

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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:28 pm

@Doc wrote:If I recall correctly, Carlos had a similar drop off in performance too. Maybe I'm remembering wrong or too harshly. Anyway, the fact Valk has to talk about non FB attributes to "get one over" Carlos is a bit funny. He is not wrong in what he wrote, I don't find so anyway but RC was the better FB in terms of what a FB actually brings. I wanna say way better.

To put it in perspective, you had be actually skillful to beat Carlos in his prime like Figo and Rivaldo would do. Carlos was not gonna get turn inside out by every decent winger he faced the way Marcelo gets treated.

Two legendary full backs for the club though to go along with the very much forgotten Jose Antonio Camacho. I wonder if time would completely eradicate his memory hmm


Putting this into perspective, none of us are ever going to remember Carlos getting screwed in a La Liga game in March 2000, we remember his great moments. With Marcelo we've watched him on a weekly basis for the last decade. When he is going to hang up his boots he'll be viewed in a much better light.

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Post by Doc on Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:59 pm

I would admit, it's pretty tough remembering matches from such a long time as you could easily watch 50+ games of football a season but I do remember only certain wingers/wide men would give Carlos a hard time. You know, the real skillful men of La Liga (and I guess Europe).

With Marcelo, it could be anyone who have some pace and/or dribbling ability. It really doesn't matter. But that's not what made Marcelo legendary, his attacking qualities are ridiculous. Quite possibly the most skillful FB I ever saw.


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Post by Valkyrja on Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:13 pm

I love u Doc Proud

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Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:31 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:I get a real kick out you kids making statements about players you probably never saw!

Tito, Sports, can you lent an opinion here?


So condescending. Not even worth a reply.
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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:22 pm

Deez, I don’t consider you a kid!
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Post by sportsczy on Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:18 am

Roberto Carlos was a MUCH better overall fullback. One of the best ever. RC's big thing was, as Doc said, work rate and just toughness... not the best defender; but you had to work damn hard to beat him. As a result, only the really great players owned him.

He wasn't as skillful as Marcelo on the attack in terms of technique. He was no slouch though. The big thing was his crosses, free kicks and just rocket of a left foot.

Just a very different player. Best LB i witnessed along with Maldini. I personally thought Maldini was better.

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Post by titosantill on Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:45 am

carlos didn't drop off to the point where every spanish media outlet publishes stories saying everytime he plays we mess up. and he wasn't getting benched by raul bravo. marcelo had been here since 07 or 08. we are in 2019, this guy has never learned how to defend since then? even for brazil, that game against germany. it is extremely disrespectful to compare the two. marcelo wasn't a constant starter until carlo ancelotti's second season

and offensively, i'd still take carlos, much better technique, better crosser, physical. only thing marcelo may do better at is dribbling. everything else, NO. he doesn't even have roberto's pace. coaches actually target our left flank when marcelo plays. allegri back when juve knocked us out and most recently

i get it, marcelo is declining, but there are a lot of things he hardly developed since starting his career. defense, weight control, crossing (until maybe last year, he started crossing above waste level). i'm sure beckham can write an interesting piece on whether or not carlos could defend. becks would definitely know about that

i almost become chadish regarding isco/benzema, when i hear marcelo being discussed like he and carlos are equals. reguilon would have never benched carlos during his time here, not even in 07


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Post by titosantill on Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:54 am

i'm not saying carlos didn't do dumb stuff, he messed us up against makaay in the first leg tie, he was tying his socks or laces against brazil, he and rivaldo had their battles, he had a gaffe on eto'o too (a huge misunderstanding between him and iker) but you never got the perception that opposing right wingers or coaches where excited to face him. and there wasn't a self conscious effort to adjust formations because we wanted to mask his shortcomings

marcelo's cool and all, but he's kinda the poor man's version. like a kobe to an mj. but kobe's much more closer to mj than marcelo to carlos
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Post by Doc on Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:01 am

Obviously I would take Carlos over Marcelo as well but I do disagree with the technique part. Marcelo's skill on the ball is better which is saying something as Carlos had skill as well. Everything, you know, the stuff a FB suppose to do, Carlos trumps him. Easily.

Seriously, anyone of you older gents remembers Camacho?

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Post by titosantill on Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:23 am

if technique is solely dribbling, yes. but technique to me encompasses dribbling, passing, ball control, and set piece ability. and bar dribbling (and carlos wasn't a scrub dribbler, he wasn't no step over king, but his push the ball one side and chase after always worked) carlos trumps him in every other thing

i get your point though doc, but this is where i want to kill this "debate", everything that marcelo can do, carlos could do. now maybe marcelo may be an 8 in something, carlos would be at worst a 6.5 in it. on the other hand, there are things carlos could, that marcelo cannot do. to the point marcelo might rank as low as a 4 in those things.

although right now in 2019 i'd go with marcelo over carlos.....cos carlos is in his 40s
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Post by sportsczy on Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:52 am

Camacho was great.  Another one from that era was Amoros.  As a Juve fan back then, I have to mention Cabrini as well.  

Junior of Brazil took the cake though.  What a player he was.  Leovegildo Lins da Gama Júnior.

I shouldn't have forgotten him when I mentioned Maldini.  He was actually better than him.  Every bit as good technically as Marcelo if not more... yeah he was more skilled believe it or not.  What a player.  He actually played midfield and fullback just as well AND he was completely two footed.

Played fullback until he was 30 (dominated the position)... came to Torino then and played midfield. Won Serie A player of the year as a midfielder.

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Post by sportsczy on Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:16 am

Just to throw it in there... the most skilled and natural player I have ever seen is Ronaldinho. Yep, even moreso that Diego and Leo. His prime didn't last long... but damn.

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Post by Doc on Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:27 am

@sportsczy wrote:Just to throw it in there... the most skilled and natural player I have ever seen is Ronaldinho. Yep, even moreso that Diego and Leo. His prime didn't last long... but damn.

I still hold a legit grudge for us missing out on Dinho and got fking Beckham.

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Post by titosantill on Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:53 am

i hold a grudge on missing out on eto'o. i know exactly whose place he should have taken
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Post by Doc on Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:15 am

@titosantill wrote:i hold a grudge on missing out on eto'o. i know exactly whose place he should have taken

Me too and yes, he should have replaced him. Big time.

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Post by Mamad on Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:41 am

We sold Makelele and brought Beckham lol.

Perez was really stupid then in terms of understanding what goes on the pitch.

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