The reason Benzema is rated so highly in the world

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Post by The Madrid One on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:03 pm

ur not looking at it the right way hrealmadrid.

when it comes to buisness and players we can use, kaka stands no chance against cazorla.

or atleast back then

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:09 pm

now he certainly doesnt

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Post by Babun on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:15 pm

Eto'o, Cavani, Rooney, Kunt and Hulk are all better than him. Even not top five...

Highly rated in the world? Prove it over the length of a season. Like now, he is highly overrated by you Very Happy

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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:18 pm

@hrealmadrid wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Why is it that as soon as someone brings statistics to back up their claim, they're a "radical fanzema"? Wouldn't being a blind fan involve ignoring the figures and just stating things without facts?

I have yet to see someone who is a pipita fan prove to me statistically how Higuain is better. We've been talking about this for over a year now and it hasn't happened. In my book, you guys are the most radical.

Alright, let's compare the past two years shall we? Because I'm sick and tired of this issue coming up, being resolved, and then brought up again when someone feels like it is a valid argument when it clearly is not. Just like the Kaka financial issue (one that does not exist).

Gonzalo Higuain

2009-2010
Appearances: 40
Goals:29
Assists: 6

2010-2011
Appearances: 25
Goals: 13
Assists: 6

Two year total
Appearances: 65
Goals: 42 (0.65 goals per a game)
Assists: 12


Karim Benzema


2009-2010
Appearances: 33
Goals: 9
Assists: 4

2010-2011
Appearances: 48
Goals: 26
Assists: 9

Two year total
Appearances: 81
Goals: 35 (0.43 goals per a game)
Assists: 13


Now I am not a mathematician, but my two year old niece can clearly point out that Gonzalo Higuain has more goals and one less assist than Karim Benzema in less games. FFS.


Goals per start and goals per mins played in ALL COMPETITIONS carry a lot more weight dude. I posted those stats a while back. I'll dig them up for this forum.

You can play 10 secs and it counts as an appearance. Benz only started 20 games in la liga this year and 14-15 goals came in starts. Higuain had over 75% of his appearance last year come as starts. Makes a huge difference... Which is why goals per min played are the most telling.

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Post by Yuri Yukuv on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:20 pm

But its also easier to score as a super sub than a starter no?

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:21 pm

babun1024 wrote:Eto'o, Cavani, Rooney, Kunt and Hulk are all better than him. Even not top five...

Highly rated in the world? Prove it over the length of a season. Like now, he is highly overrated by you Very Happy
Looool

Cavani isnt better than benzema, he just had his breakthrough, same with hulk who isnt even a CF. it applies to Kun as well.

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Post by Guest on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:28 pm

@Yuri Yukuv wrote:But its also easier to score as a super sub than a starter no?

Usually, no... Unless you are super fast, or very tall... Basically, if you have a physical advantage. Otherwise, forwards need to find the rhythm with their teammates, the defense and the game overall. As a sub, your prime minutes are very limited (by prime, I mean once you get into the flow of the game).

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Post by guest7 on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:40 pm

If we give Benzema another season Benzema will prove himself to be a top 5 striker. This guy basicly scored braces every game in 1 month or something. And even in games he doesnt score he usually hands a assist or two.
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Post by hrealmadrid on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:52 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@Yuri Yukuv wrote:But its also easier to score as a super sub than a starter no?

Usually, no... Unless you are super fast, or very tall... Basically, if you have a physical advantage. Otherwise, forwards need to find the rhythm with their teammates, the defense and the game overall. As a sub, your prime minutes are very limited (by prime, I mean once you get into the flow of the game).

That's absolute rubbish. It is much easier for a supersub to score, especially a forward. You do realize that they have all their stamina as opposed to the defenders they are going up against who have been running for 80+ minutes.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:54 pm

It's no just a matter of stamina. When you are extremely fast and your game is all about pace, then yeah. but most of the time, you have to get into the rhythm, and get your pace level with the other players, it's not as easy.

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Post by Yuri Yukuv on Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:56 pm

I dont know about that, adjusting to pace maybe a problem for benzema specifically as he is such a laggard when its comes to it but to most forwards its not a material issue. When you have a good coach the effect of being a super sub is magnified as you are usually given excellent tactical orders.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:00 am

It's an easy thing to verify. Just compare minutes per goal in substitute minutes compared to starter minutes. The difference is very significant for the most part.

There's also the mental aspect of being a sub that comes into play.

I'll post the stats today and you'll all see for yourselves lol.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:21 pm

so where are dem stats hm?

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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:39 pm

Higuain 2009-2010 stats

La Liga - goal every 89 mins
CL - goal every 236 mins
no CDR goals
Overall - goal every 102 mins
In 40 appearances he averaged 74 mins per appearance

Benzema 2010-2011

La Liga - goal every 127 mins
CL - goal every 63 mins
CDR - goal every 98 mins
Overall - goal every 106 mins
In 48 appearances he averaged 58 mins per appearance

Pretty similar when you compare the two best Madrid years for the two, other than mins per appearance. Benzema started very badly too and then found his rhythm with regular playing time.

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Post by hrealmadrid on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:46 pm

Umm...all these stats do is verify that Higuain is better..

Keep in mind Benzema had no competition for most of this year.

Sportsczy, I completely respect your opinion, but there is no argument here.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:55 pm

@hrealmadrid wrote:Umm...all these stats do is verify that Higuain is better..

Keep in mind Benzema had no competition for most of this year.

Sportsczy, I completely respect your opinion, but there is no argument here.

Keep in mind the mins per appearance. That's a differentiator here to otherwise even OVERALL stats.

Second thing is that Benzema is a creator CF while Higuain is a poacher. Poachers, by nature, should be the most efficient CFs out there (Gomez has the best stats in the world in terms of efficiency; better than Messi). Their job is to sit in the box and pound in goals only. Benzema participates in the build up, creates and plays a lot outside the box. He also covered CR7's role on the left for several games with Ade as the CF.

Having the same efficiency numbers between Benz and Higuain is actually very much to Benz' favor.

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.

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Post by hrealmadrid on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:20 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:Umm...all these stats do is verify that Higuain is better..

Keep in mind Benzema had no competition for most of this year.

Sportsczy, I completely respect your opinion, but there is no argument here.

Keep in mind the mins per appearance. That's a differentiator here to otherwise even OVERALL stats.

Second thing is that Benzema is a creator CF while Higuain is a poacher. Poachers, by nature, should be the most efficient CFs out there (Gomez has the best stats in the world in terms of efficiency; better than Messi). Their job is to sit in the box and pound in goals only. Benzema participates in the build up, creates and plays a lot outside the box. He also covered CR7's role on the left for several games with Ade as the CF.

Having the same efficiency numbers between Benz and Higuain is actually very much to Benz' favor.

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.

You're going back against the original discussion, that's not a statistical argument. I can go on for weeks on why Higuain is better for us when not taking statistics into account.

@sportsczy wrote:Why is it that as soon as someone brings statistics to back up their claim, they're a "radical fanzema"? Wouldn't being a blind fan involve ignoring the figures and just stating things without facts?

I have yet to see someone who is a pipita fan prove to me statistically how Higuain is better. We've been talking about this for over a year now and it hasn't happened. In my book, you guys are the most radical.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:31 pm

@hrealmadrid wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:Umm...all these stats do is verify that Higuain is better..

Keep in mind Benzema had no competition for most of this year.

Sportsczy, I completely respect your opinion, but there is no argument here.

Keep in mind the mins per appearance. That's a differentiator here to otherwise even OVERALL stats.

Second thing is that Benzema is a creator CF while Higuain is a poacher. Poachers, by nature, should be the most efficient CFs out there (Gomez has the best stats in the world in terms of efficiency; better than Messi). Their job is to sit in the box and pound in goals only. Benzema participates in the build up, creates and plays a lot outside the box. He also covered CR7's role on the left for several games with Ade as the CF.

Having the same efficiency numbers between Benz and Higuain is actually very much to Benz' favor.

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.

You're going back against the original discussion, that's not a statistical argument. I can go on for weeks on why Higuain is better for us when not taking statistics into account.

Starter mins vs. sub mins is absolutely a statistical argument.... because it means that Benzema played less mins per game this year than Higuain did in 2009-2010. So is the number of goals in a career (103 v. 93 Benzema), best seasons as a pro (31 v 29 for Benzema) and career assists (45 v 31 Benzema).

Then you take into account their different styles of play... and the gap widens in Benzema's favor.

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Post by hrealmadrid on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:36 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:Umm...all these stats do is verify that Higuain is better..

Keep in mind Benzema had no competition for most of this year.

Sportsczy, I completely respect your opinion, but there is no argument here.

Keep in mind the mins per appearance. That's a differentiator here to otherwise even OVERALL stats.

Second thing is that Benzema is a creator CF while Higuain is a poacher. Poachers, by nature, should be the most efficient CFs out there (Gomez has the best stats in the world in terms of efficiency; better than Messi). Their job is to sit in the box and pound in goals only. Benzema participates in the build up, creates and plays a lot outside the box. He also covered CR7's role on the left for several games with Ade as the CF.

Having the same efficiency numbers between Benz and Higuain is actually very much to Benz' favor.

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.

You're going back against the original discussion, that's not a statistical argument. I can go on for weeks on why Higuain is better for us when not taking statistics into account.

Starter mins vs. sub mins is absolutely a statistical argument.... because it means that Benzema played less mins per game this year than Higuain did in 2009-2010. So is the number of goals in a career (103 v. 93 Benzema), best seasons as a pro (31 v 29 for Benzema) and career assists (45 v 31 Benzema).

Then you take into account their different styles of play... and the gap widens in Benzema's favor.

Dude, I think it's kind of pathetic how every time your argument is lost, you continually shift it slightly so it's in your favor.

I'm done arguing with you: stats don't lie. And I'm sure the Madrid bosses agree with me. Should Aguero end up coming and one of Higuain or Benzema leaving, it will be Benzema simply because he is not as good. End of story.
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Post by Guest on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:38 pm

@hrealmadrid wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:
@hrealmadrid wrote:Umm...all these stats do is verify that Higuain is better..

Keep in mind Benzema had no competition for most of this year.

Sportsczy, I completely respect your opinion, but there is no argument here.

Keep in mind the mins per appearance. That's a differentiator here to otherwise even OVERALL stats.

Second thing is that Benzema is a creator CF while Higuain is a poacher. Poachers, by nature, should be the most efficient CFs out there (Gomez has the best stats in the world in terms of efficiency; better than Messi). Their job is to sit in the box and pound in goals only. Benzema participates in the build up, creates and plays a lot outside the box. He also covered CR7's role on the left for several games with Ade as the CF.

Having the same efficiency numbers between Benz and Higuain is actually very much to Benz' favor.

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.

You're going back against the original discussion, that's not a statistical argument. I can go on for weeks on why Higuain is better for us when not taking statistics into account.

Starter mins vs. sub mins is absolutely a statistical argument.... because it means that Benzema played less mins per game this year than Higuain did in 2009-2010. So is the number of goals in a career (103 v. 93 Benzema), best seasons as a pro (31 v 29 for Benzema) and career assists (45 v 31 Benzema).

Then you take into account their different styles of play... and the gap widens in Benzema's favor.

Dude, I think it's kind of pathetic how every time your argument is lost, you continually shift it slightly so it's in your favor.

I'm done arguing with you: stats don't lie. And I'm sure the Madrid bosses with agree with me. Should Aguero end up coming and one of Higuain or Benzema leaving, it will be Benzema simply because he is not as good. End of story.

Lol. I'm sure you;re a pimple faced 18 year old with that comment... or someone of that type of maturity. Learn to understand numbers. 2+2 does not equal 5 regardless of what Radiohead says.

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Post by The Madrid One on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:07 am

doing one hell of a job ma boy Smile

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Post by Albiceleste on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:10 am

@sportsczy wrote:

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.
In the Champion's League in 2009-10 you guys faced OM ACM and Lyon as your toughest opposition, that season Marseille was Ligue 1 champions and Lyon were second place, while Milan was 3rd place in Serie A. With Lyon getting knocked out by Bayern Munich in the Semi's and Milan getting knocked out in the round of 16 by Manchester United.

In 2010-11 Champion's League the toughest opposition you faced was was Milan which finished first in Serie A but got knocked by Tottenham, Lyon which finished 3rd in Ligue 1 and Barcelona which finished first in La Liga.

If you compare the difficulty of the two seasons of Champion's League opposition Higuain and Benzema played against you can see that Higuain had to face generally tougher teams in less games, Marseille, Zurich and Milan in the group stage and Lyon in the only knock out round Madrid competed in.

While Benzema had to face Milan, Ajax and Auxerre in the group stage, Lyon Tottenham and Barcelona in the knock outs.

The reason why I say that Higuain had more difficult opposition to play against is because Ajax and Auxerre aren't really a match for Madrid and they showed it by the scoreline and Milan were knocked out by Tottenham which shows their quality in Europe at the moment, as well as a much weaker Lyon side then last season, Tottenham which are not very good in Europe and Barcelona which he failed to do much of anything against but are the best team in the world.

My point is, Benz scored 6 goals in the champion's League, but how big of a contribution was it? Sure he helped put on the goals when they were pouring down and there's nothing wrong with that obviously but when did he make the difference during a drought? Higuain has been Madrid's saving grace many many times, but he has choked a couple of times while Benzema has never been Madrid's savior and choked for 1.75 seasons (rough estimate) and scoring goals against pretty weak opposition.

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Post by Zees on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:32 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:

P.S. Massive CL and CDR fail for Higuain too. He's a La Liga specialist. CL is the most impressive for me for Benzema because you always face good to great competition.
In the Champion's League in 2009-10 you guys faced OM ACM and Lyon as your toughest opposition, that season Marseille was Ligue 1 champions and Lyon were second place, while Milan was 3rd place in Serie A. With Lyon getting knocked out by Bayern Munich in the Semi's and Milan getting knocked out in the round of 16 by Manchester United.

In 2010-11 Champion's League the toughest opposition you faced was was Milan which finished first in Serie A but got knocked by Tottenham, Lyon which finished 3rd in Ligue 1 and Barcelona which finished first in La Liga.

If you compare the difficulty of the two seasons of Champion's League opposition Higuain and Benzema played against you can see that Higuain had to face generally tougher teams in less games, Marseille, Zurich and Milan in the group stage and Lyon in the only knock out round Madrid competed in.

While Benzema had to face Milan, Ajax and Auxerre in the group stage, Lyon Tottenham and Barcelona in the knock outs.

The reason why I say that Higuain had more difficult opposition to play against is because Ajax and Auxerre aren't really a match for Madrid and they showed it by the scoreline and Milan were knocked out by Tottenham which shows their quality in Europe at the moment, as well as a much weaker Lyon side then last season, Tottenham which are not very good in Europe and Barcelona which he failed to do much of anything against but are the best team in the world.

My point is, Benz scored 6 goals in the champion's League, but how big of a contribution was it? Sure he helped put on the goals when they were pouring down and there's nothing wrong with that obviously but when did he make the difference during a drought? Higuain has been Madrid's saving grace many many times, but he has choked a couple of times while Benzema has never been Madrid's savior and choked for 1.75 seasons (rough estimate) and scoring goals against pretty weak opposition.
dont forget that real madrid was much stronger in 2010/2011 than 2009/2010 and that Özil --> Guti Razz

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Post by I-no on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:12 am

the thread title is too cheesy, wiat until real madrid wins something with him then regard him highly in the world,lol, fanzemitis on the run........

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Post by Guest on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:40 am

I-No... Higuain has won nothing as a starter with Real Madrid either. Last time we won anything prior to the CDR last year as in 2007-2008.

Just to kill all the laughable CL apologist posts for Pipita:
- Higuain has 4 goals in 27 CL appearances
- Benzema has 19 goals in 32 CL appearances

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Post by I-no on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:55 am

@sportsczy wrote:I-No... Higuain has won nothing as a starter with Real Madrid either. Last time we won anything prior to the CDR last year as in 2007-2008.

Just to kill all the laughable CL apologist posts for Pipita:
- Higuain has 4 goals in 27 CL appearances
- Benzema has 19 goals in 32 CL appearances
waaaait! where did I mention higgy? :arrow:

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