El Clasico Post Match Analysis

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Post by estrella bernabeu on Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:43 pm

We gave him a lot of chances and i believe he took them and tried to lead our Midfield but everytime he reached his best fit he's injured, so we went back to the start case.
Mentally, Mou get him fixed, but physically he's like vanished. He can't hold few games without injury. Hope he will be ready for March battle.

Should have been CR sub in the last Clasico, but Mr Handsome is intouchable.

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Post by huntsman on Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:49 pm

@estrella bernabeu wrote:We gave him a lot of chances and i believe he took them and tried to lead our Midfield but everytime he reached his best fit he's injured, so we went back to the start case.
Mentally, Mou get him fixed, but physically he's like vanished. He can't hold few games without injury. Hope he will be ready for March battle.

Should have been CR sub in the last Clasico, but Mr Handsome is intouchable.

What chances did we give him? He hasnt played properly until the start of the season. All the pre-season he was under attack and the rumors about him moving to other clubs unsettled him.

Add to the mix that most of the games he played he wasnt a starter. We cant say he's physically not ready because he has recovered from his last injury. That injury was not dagerous and its from the past.

Given the chance to play with freedom you would see a new Real Madrid.
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Post by futbol_bill on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:32 pm

@huntsman wrote:
@estrella bernabeu wrote:We gave him a lot of chances and i believe he took them and tried to lead our Midfield but everytime he reached his best fit he's injured, so we went back to the start case.
Mentally, Mou get him fixed, but physically he's like vanished. He can't hold few games without injury. Hope he will be ready for March battle.

Should have been CR sub in the last Clasico, but Mr Handsome is intouchable.

What chances did we give him? He hasnt played properly until the start of the season. All the pre-season he was under attack and the rumors about him moving to other clubs unsettled him.

Add to the mix that most of the games he played he wasnt a starter. We cant say he's physically not ready because he has recovered from his last injury. That injury was not dagerous and its from the past.

Given the chance to play with freedom you would see a new Real Madrid.

Sorry to see that you are back with your ridiculous views :facepalm: :facepalm: Sleep Sleep :?: :?:
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Post by Albiceleste on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:24 pm

Cesc and Iniesta only play together in a 343 or when Fab is the false 9 :flower:

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Post by huntsman on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Fabregas was amazing by the way and iniesta too.
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Post by Giovanni10 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:05 pm

I didn't necessarily mean how they line up for Barca, false 9 and all that bs, i'm talking about what they actually are and they are AMs, known as AMs, to try and correct me with technicalities is futile anyway because forward positions are floating in a typical Barca game anyway, any attacker can pop up in any part of the pitch and wingers switch wings often.

My point is that as two AMs, given consistent time to gel could make the attack much smoother.. But obviously i'm preaching to wrong crowd here.. You obviously all prefer the gangly dribbling possession wasting twats.
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Post by Albiceleste on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:20 pm

@Giovanni10 wrote:I didn't necessarily mean how they line up for Barca, false 9 and all that bs, i'm talking about what they actually are and they are AMs, known as AMs, to try and correct me with technicalities is futile anyway because forward positions are floating in a typical Barca game anyway, any attacker can pop up in any part of the pitch and wingers switch wings often.

My point is that as two AMs, given consistent time to gel could make the attack much smoother.. But obviously i'm preaching to wrong crowd here.. You obviously all prefer the gangly dribbling possession wasting twats.
Well I was only saying that because trying to compare fitting cesc and iniesta in one team and ozil and kaka in one team are two very different situations, and the way Barcelona fits them in is a way that probably won't work for Real Madrid

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Post by Giovanni10 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:35 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
@Giovanni10 wrote:I didn't necessarily mean how they line up for Barca, false 9 and all that bs, i'm talking about what they actually are and they are AMs, known as AMs, to try and correct me with technicalities is futile anyway because forward positions are floating in a typical Barca game anyway, any attacker can pop up in any part of the pitch and wingers switch wings often.

My point is that as two AMs, given consistent time to gel could make the attack much smoother.. But obviously i'm preaching to wrong crowd here.. You obviously all prefer the gangly dribbling possession wasting twats.
Well I was only saying that because trying to compare fitting cesc and iniesta in one team and ozil and kaka in one team are two very different situations, and the way Barcelona fits them in is a way that probably won't work for Real Madrid


Of course sacrilege to have an opinion about another team on these boards as a Real Madrid supporter, should have just left that comparison out. Anyway there was a lot more substance in the OP than just that.

All i'm saying is that Ozil and Kaka can work in the same system given some time, i'm positive of it. They are obviously awkward when they play together because they've been made to believe that at any other time they are competing for the same position in the starting line-up.
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Post by Pedram on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:41 pm

If they play together we won't have any attacking midfielder in the bench.
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Post by Albiceleste on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:44 pm

@Giovanni10 wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
@Giovanni10 wrote:I didn't necessarily mean how they line up for Barca, false 9 and all that bs, i'm talking about what they actually are and they are AMs, known as AMs, to try and correct me with technicalities is futile anyway because forward positions are floating in a typical Barca game anyway, any attacker can pop up in any part of the pitch and wingers switch wings often.

My point is that as two AMs, given consistent time to gel could make the attack much smoother.. But obviously i'm preaching to wrong crowd here.. You obviously all prefer the gangly dribbling possession wasting twats.
Well I was only saying that because trying to compare fitting cesc and iniesta in one team and ozil and kaka in one team are two very different situations, and the way Barcelona fits them in is a way that probably won't work for Real Madrid


Of course sacrilege to have an opinion about another team on these boards as a Real Madrid supporter, should have just left that comparison out. Anyway there was a lot more substance in the OP than just that.

All i'm saying is that Ozil and Kaka can work in the same system given some time, i'm positive of it. They are obviously awkward when they play together because they've been made to believe that at any other time they are competing for the same position in the starting line-up.
Don't be so defensive man, I was merely commenting that the comparison between the two pairs wouldn't work since they are all AMs yes but are very different players in very different systems. I'm not trying to say anything against Kaka or Ozil or Real Madrid, lol. Anyway, don't let me detract from the discussion anymore lol.

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Post by Pedram on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:47 pm

Cesc and Iniesta tracks back a lot though.
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Post by Giovanni10 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:51 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:
@Giovanni10 wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:
@Giovanni10 wrote:I didn't necessarily mean how they line up for Barca, false 9 and all that bs, i'm talking about what they actually are and they are AMs, known as AMs, to try and correct me with technicalities is futile anyway because forward positions are floating in a typical Barca game anyway, any attacker can pop up in any part of the pitch and wingers switch wings often.

My point is that as two AMs, given consistent time to gel could make the attack much smoother.. But obviously i'm preaching to wrong crowd here.. You obviously all prefer the gangly dribbling possession wasting twats.
Well I was only saying that because trying to compare fitting cesc and iniesta in one team and ozil and kaka in one team are two very different situations, and the way Barcelona fits them in is a way that probably won't work for Real Madrid


Of course sacrilege to have an opinion about another team on these boards as a Real Madrid supporter, should have just left that comparison out. Anyway there was a lot more substance in the OP than just that.

All i'm saying is that Ozil and Kaka can work in the same system given some time, i'm positive of it. They are obviously awkward when they play together because they've been made to believe that at any other time they are competing for the same position in the starting line-up.
Don't be so defensive man, I was merely commenting that the comparison between the two pairs wouldn't work since they are all AMs yes but are very different players in very different systems. I'm not trying to say anything against Kaka or Ozil or Real Madrid, lol. Anyway, don't let me detract from the discussion anymore lol.
I ain't even mad, bro. I have regrets though that I made the comparison because now its derailed the thread. Can I ask then for your opinion on whether the kaka-ozil idea can be successful in its own right? Also without predictable Argentine bias in favour of Di Maria. Thanks.
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Post by Albiceleste on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:16 pm

fks sake, I tried replied to this thread three times already and my internet keeps cutting out and erasing my post Mad El Clasico Post Match Analysis - Page 5 2276801876 fck you comcast!


Yes, I think Kaka and Ozil can work together and it could be better than Di Maria playing because Di Maria's final ball is shat sometimes, and in games when chances are few and far between, you cannot waste opportunities.

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Post by Onyx on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:23 pm

Because both Ozil and Kaka are at their best at CAM. Also both Iniesta and Fabregas can play CM.
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Post by Giovanni10 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:14 am

mtfootball wrote:Because both Ozil and Kaka are at their best at CAM. Also both Iniesta and Fabregas can play CM.


Not really as simple as that though.. For me Ozil and Kaka do not need to compete for the same space on the pitch.. I actually enjoy Kaka a little further forward than AM, at more like a creative SS position, Ozil could sit a little deeper even occupying a "Seedorf" kind of Cam-come-cm role.
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Post by FalcaoPunch on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:24 pm

Villa anyone?
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Post by Jonathan28 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:09 pm

People need to watch this video analysing the tactics in El Clasico, it is brilliant


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El Clasico Post Match Analysis - Page 5 Empty I think I've finally found a decent plan to play Barca

Post by huntsman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:39 am

This is the Real Madrid formation that i find best suited to play against Barca. What do you think?

Goal Tending:
GK: Iker

Defense:
LB: Coentrao
CB: Ramos, Varane
RB: Arbelao

Midfield:
On the right: Lassana; at the right, Arbelao and Lassana are a perfect blend; this side is almost impenetrable.
At the center: Kaka, Alonso with Kaka dropping forward on the attaks and counters; more on this later
On the Left: Di Maria; Coentrao and Di Maria are a perfect mesh on the left

Offense:

Benzema as a false 9
Ronaldo; in his current physical form Ronaldo should just play as a paocher against teams like Barca; use his height and jumping strength to score goals and maul the Barca defeners.


Why this formation? Because it is a fresh formation and it builds on the successes that Madrid against Barca in the Past.

Why Varane instead of Pepe? simply put Pepe's physical and rough play didnt break the spirit of Barca players or prevent them from scoring. He is clumsy, has balance problems and is vulnerable to mistakes that are costly.

Why Coetrao instead of Marcelo? Because Coentrao is much better at defending and because Real will not hold as much ball possession as Barca so they need to rely on a reliable LB instead of a false LW. Having said that, Marcelo played decently in the last game against Barca though i hold him accountable to the second goal which i dont throw it all on bad luck as some might try to put it.

Kaka in the middle, are you series? Ofcourse we could benefit from his speed upfront, but we need a maestro in the middle; someone who can create play and retain the ball and a great dribbler. This is Kaka.

Di Maria on the left? Sure, wasnt it his natural position to start with? Put him on the right and he will dribble and shoot the ball because that's what he can do from the right; curl the ball into the goal or create bad crosses.

Put him on the left, and he can not shoot because he has to curl the ball into the box and create dangerous plays where Ronaldo the poacher awaits, just like what he did in the CDR.

Benzema, is much better than ronaldo at coming back receiving the ball, and he's not very good at aerial attacks; ronaldo is much better. Hence the false 9 position.

With this formation i made sure we have a perfect balance between the back and front lines with Iker, Varane and Ramos, Kaka and Alonso, and Benzema Ronaldo as the backbone of the team. Perfect player combo which compliment each others. Where Kaka Lacks, Alonso excels and etc...

I avoided a counter attacking formation because simply put, Barca expects us to counter and they will not fall for our counters. The last time they fell for our counter was in the 116th minute of the CDR final when Di Maria was playing on the left and cureled a cross to Ronaldo who was a playing like a poacher at this instant.

Barca has skillful and short defenders who are fast at recovering their position.

Simply put, they can dismantle our counters easily because they are the perfect antidote for this type of play and they expect us to play on counters. So not only they are good and prefer this type of play against them but the element of suprise is missing.

Again when was the last time Madrid scored against Barca in a counter? It was in the final of the CDR which barca lost in the extra time. Barca learned from this already; but it looks like Madrid hasnt.


Last edited by huntsman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kiranr on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:41 am


You are going with a 4-4-2 against Barcelona?
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Post by huntsman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:44 am

@kiranr wrote:
You are going with a 4-4-2 against Barcelona?

Kiranr, you are correct.

Against Barca i pulled from the drawer the classical 4 - 4 - 2 formation.

I wanted to control the midfield as much as humanely possible against a freaking team like barca. I want to create traffic in the middle. Plus Madrid has quality MF players who can score.
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Post by kiranr on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:53 am


If you are going to stick lass and Di Maria in the wings, dont you think the Madrid midfield will be light in the middle with only Kaka and Alonso?
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Post by eltractor on Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:23 am

i think this is a very bad formation, with alonso the only defensive midfielder in the middle. the right side is good derfensively, but if messi goes to the left, we will be beaten easily. if we want to beat barca, the attacking wingers ( ronaldo and di maria) should defend more like used pandev and etoo to do with inter, or you have to change the strategy
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Post by huntsman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:49 am

@kiranr wrote:
If you are going to stick lass and Di Maria in the wings, dont you think the Madrid midfield will be light in the middle with only Kaka and Alonso?

Alonso is very good at defending. kaka is the maestro. He's the eagle with the best vision who can dictate the tempo of the game. He can shoot with both legs just like Ronaldo. This is why it is best to use both players in the middle and not on the sides.

Being the important player that he is, Kaka's only participation in defense is pressing. He is required to keep a distance from the opposition player who is holding the ball and just slow him down until back up arrives.

Ronaldo will track back to the Left while Di-Maria who is a work horse drops to the right back to provide support or on the right Lass will drop to the left back to provide support. I d rather have Kaka on the center right near Arbeloa / Lass's watchful eyes and Alonso on Dimaria / Coentrao's side.

again, Kaka will only participate in slowing down the attack and pressing and not tackling and harcore defending. He's sort of like a false 9 as well. Consider him a Messi type of player only i want him t0 play more in the middle.

That's the beauty of having Lass and Di Maria on the right and left wings respectively, because when they drop to the center whilst Ronaldo and Benzema covering the left andd right frontal territories, Real have solid left and right back in Coentrao and Arbelao who can handle the passes, 1 - 2s and crosses coming from the center towards the left and the right wings.

Just perfect in my opinion.

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Post by fatman123 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:57 am

i like the idea of using CR as in the middle so he can use his height and strength to out muscle defenders, i still think hes a waste on the wing

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Post by huntsman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:02 am

@eltractor wrote:i think this is a very bad formation, with alonso the only defensive midfielder in the middle. the right side is good derfensively, but if messi goes to the left, we will be beaten easily. if we want to beat barca, the attacking wingers ( ronaldo and di maria) should defend more like used pandev and etoo to do with inter, or you have to change the strategy

It's not worse than the last formation we played with against barca imo.
And it is worth experimenting with esp when we had a 6 points lead. At least if we lost, we couldve said we were just experimenting.
What the last game taught us was that Barca are a better team than Real. Let's all face it. As much as i hate to say it, Barca on their best day are better than us on our best day.

And i am against scoring a goal early against them. If i were Benzema, i would have just Kicked the ball out instead of scoring in the 20th sec. It's not good to score early against barca.

Besides, in this formation, every player handles the ball well. We dont have Pepe, Khedira type of players. Ozil is a ghost, that's why i removed him from teh equation. He cant shoot with both feet where as Kaka can score from outside with his banana curls.
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Post by guest7 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am

Why a 4-3-3 will always beat a 4-4-2 (according to Jose Mourinho)

‘Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop things’.

Sorry Huntsman, the plan won't work.
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