El Clasico Post Match Analysis

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Post by guest7 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:24 am

Why a 4-3-3 will always beat a 4-4-2 (according to Jose Mourinho)

‘Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop things’.

Sorry Huntsman, the plan won't work.

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Post by huntsman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:37 am

omarish wrote:Why a 4-3-3 will always beat a 4-4-2 (according to Jose Mourinho)

‘Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop things’.

Sorry Huntsman, the plan won't work.


Problem: Team work is not going to cut it for us, why? Because it doesnt exist at Real Madrid. hence 4 - 3 - 3 is not going to work.
Solution: Build the team around the most important player; protect him and give him the chance to create play.



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Post by Le Samourai on Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:55 am

Formation has excellent balance........but no stength in the core.

If we had schweinsteiger or De Rossi....it would be viable.

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Post by Onyx on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:08 am

Barca had 62% possession while we had 38%.

This season our average possession has been 60% and 61% of our goals have come from open play.

So I think we should play the style we do against every other team in future clasicos.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:15 am

you wanna get 60% possession against barca? lol

you do realize that we arent a possession side right? we will always average higher possession against most because we have arguably more quality than anyone we play against.

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Post by Onyx on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:36 am

61% of our goals have come from open play, while 16% have come from counter-attacks.

84% of our passes this season have been short. Surely we are a possession side with those stats.

Basically we just need to keep the ball more against Barca instead of hoofing it away or rushing attacks.
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Post by Pedram on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:39 am

mtfootball wrote:61% of our goals have come from open play, while 16% have come from counter-attacks.

84% of our passes this season have been short. Surely we are a possession side with those stats.

Basically we just need to keep the ball more against Barca instead of hoofing it away or rushing attacks.

Keep posting stats as you think football is rational.
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Post by Onyx on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:43 am

Actually prior to reading the stats I thought we kept hoofing the ball and rushing attacks too much against Barca.
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Post by Senor Penguin on Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:46 pm

mtfootball wrote:Actually prior to reading the stats I thought we kept hoofing the ball and rushing attacks too much against Barca.
Aren't we? In the Super Cup games I think we did well and actually kept possession and showed how we could and should play against Barca. But in the last match against them our attack was futile when relying on possession, although that can be explained by Cristiano's poor involvement in that match. If you keep a player that poor on the pitch an entire match you shouldn't expect much of a result.

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Post by Senor Penguin on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:32 pm

My freak formation against Refcelona:

GK: Iker
RB: Arbeloa
RCB: Ramos
LCB: Carvalho
LB: Coentrao
DM: Pepe
CM(s): Alonso & Marcelo
RW: Di Maria
LW: Benzema
CF: Higuain

It's kind of a 4-1-2-2-1 formation. This formation is more about zonal defending and utilizing our strengths rather than focusing on the abilities of Barca players.

Arbeloa is a slow guy but he has Ramos to cover him with his speed and Carvalho is covered by Coentrao, where the same idea applies. The combination is also good because Carvalho is a more intelligent defender compared to Ramos due to his experience, while Ramos is more of a rushing no-bullsh*t type of defender. Same can be said about Arbeloa's involvement, he is more of a thinking defender and also has a good amount of experience. Pepe as a defensive mid because his rushing and tackling abilities are greater than his abilities of being a composed center back and he communicates well with both Carvalho and Ramos, which is essential if you need good link-up play between defense and midfield. He's also a fast player who can cover a lot of ground.

Alonso and Marcelo as center mids because they would complement each other well. Marcelo is a quick and tricky player who, like Pepe, isn't that good in the defensive line because he's not very composed either. He likes to fight just like Pepe and take risks. In the midfield he would make a good duo with Pepe helping out defensively and offensively, due to his trickery, he would compliment Alonso who is a very different type of player. He's much slower, much less tricky but excellent at finding space with his direct passes and leadership in the middle.

Di Maria as a RW because he has tremendous workrate and someone has to balance Alonso- and Arbeloa's lack of speed. Di Maria has also proven he can track inside the field and occasionally act like an attacking mid. Benzema as a LW because he's essential in the build up and link up play. Holds the ball up well and is good at finding space in tight zones. He's also extremely versatile and can emulate many of the things Ozil does (whose absence won't be felt much, I believe). Higuain upfront because he's very clinical, tracks back well and can rotate with Benzema and Di Maria because he's a decent winger. Not to mention Higuain communicates very well with both Di Maria and Benzema.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:33 am

play Ronaldo at CF vs barca
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Post by Senor Penguin on Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:29 am

Giggity5313 wrote:play Ronaldo at CF vs barca
If he absolutely must play because of club politics then he should be utilized there.

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Post by Lord Hades on Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:35 am

my god, you guys are still on about barca..

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Post by Senor Penguin on Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:48 am

diptiman wrote:my god, you guys are still on about barca..
The show must go on

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Post by guest7 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:33 am




Great videos I just found.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:20 pm

thats so true, Khedira is a fat slob and Mou knew before teh game he was gonna struggle against iniesta but why he subbed him in is beyond me

the blame shouldnt be on marcelo he needs someone to help him on the flanks and he isnt getting that support

i already know what part 3 will be....none other than ronaldo LMFAO

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Post by Senor Penguin on Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:23 pm

I don't think the videos are great because they don't reveal anything new but I'm glad you posted them anyway. The second video illustrates why I want Marcelo in midfield along with Pepe. They both lack composure in the defensive line and they are both very aggressive tacklers - that's what they do best. Marcelo has to be played a bit higher because he has got great offensive abilities that have to be utilized.

Mourinho has tried moving Pepe up as DM before and it was successful against Barca. Pellegrini moved Marcelo up as a midfielder in the 1-0 loss at Camp Nou and it proved to be successful as well. These are not coincidences either. These are just the results you get when you move players into positions where they can utilize their strengths and remove them from positions where their weaknesses are exposed and taken advantage of.

Mourinho should experiment more with this concept but he seems to have a firm belief in positional consistency for certain individuals. It's a shame. But in the long run he will benefit from his beliefs, because that's just what happens when a player develops and gets used to playing the same position. Experience is key. Marcelo is pretty awesome despite being so young and he still has plenty of room for improvement.

Regarding Khedira: He has to be surrounded by quick players. He is a good reader of the game, very consistent and a good tackler. But there's only so much he can do when he is exposed vs. fast players like Iniesta with a lot of space around him. In my opinion, he must never seek out on the wings. He should strictly stay in the middle.

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Post by guest7 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:08 pm

Moving Marcelo wouldn't do a difference. I don't know why Mou isn't telling him to stop chasing the ball and start marking his man better. That is my problem with Marcelos defending, he still doesn't chase his man instead of the ball. Too often leaves space, Mou should just tell him to stop it really.
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Post by Senor Penguin on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:29 pm

omarish wrote:Moving Marcelo wouldn't do a difference. I don't know why Mou isn't telling him to stop chasing the ball and start marking his man better. That is my problem with Marcelos defending, he still doesn't chase his man instead of the ball. Too often leaves space, Mou should just tell him to stop it really.
How does it not make a difference when his weaknesses aren't as exposed in the midfield and you replace him with a more composed defender at LB instead (Coentrao)?


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Post by guest7 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:38 pm

@Senor Penguin wrote:
omarish wrote:Moving Marcelo wouldn't do a difference. I don't know why Mou isn't telling him to stop chasing the ball and start marking his man better. That is my problem with Marcelos defending, he still doesn't chase his man instead of the ball. Too often leaves space, Mou should just tell him to stop it really.
How does it not make a differences when his weaknesses aren't as exposed in the midfield and you replace him with a more composed defender at LB instead (Coentrao)?


Becouse Marcelo isn't a experiment rat or our midfield is packed, and this isn't FM12?

Who do you honestly wanna drop in the midfield instead? You know, that is realistic aswell. I think Marcelos issue can easily be fixed by just talking with him, and him getting used to it. Let's not forget that moving from LB to LW is a adapting process.

We aren't changing our starting lineup by now and we arent going to do it for Barca either.
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Post by Senor Penguin on Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:00 pm

omarish wrote:
@Senor Penguin wrote:
omarish wrote:Moving Marcelo wouldn't do a difference. I don't know why Mou isn't telling him to stop chasing the ball and start marking his man better. That is my problem with Marcelos defending, he still doesn't chase his man instead of the ball. Too often leaves space, Mou should just tell him to stop it really.
How does it not make a differences when his weaknesses aren't as exposed in the midfield and you replace him with a more composed defender at LB instead (Coentrao)?


Becouse Marcelo isn't a experiment rat or our midfield is packed, and this isn't FM12?

Who do you honestly wanna drop in the midfield instead? You know, that is realistic aswell. I think Marcelos issue can easily be fixed by just talking with him, and him getting used to it. Let's not forget that moving from LB to LW is a adapting process.

We aren't changing our starting lineup by now and we arent going to do it for Barca either.
Read my post earlier in this thread. It perfectly explains why Marcelo would be a good addition in midfield and to let others take his spot in the backline.

If you read my post you will notice I don't want him to play as a LW either.

And of course "we" won't be changing anything ... This is merely about discussing tactics. Do you think Mou reads Goal Legacy?

You are also talking about instructing Marcelo to do something that he is probably instructed to do already. The question is when he should prioritize it and how much he should prioritize it. I bet Mourinho also instructs him to push forward and explore the left flank which obviously leaves some gaps defensively.

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Post by huntsman on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:55 am

Team Madrid must start next Classico if we were to win.
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Post by vitoo on Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:43 pm

we didn't win in our field . it's very hard to win in Camp Nou

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