Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

+15
kiranr
BeautifulGame
dansik
Lord Hades
Ali
Sushi Master
VivaStPauli
Grande_Milano
TalkingReckless
Le Samourai
che
Yuri Yukuv
BarrileteCosmico
Soul
7amood11
19 posters

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by dansik Mon 9 Jan - 5:02

I would make an awesome dictator. My people would love me............or else.

dansik
Prospect
Prospect

Posts : 182
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by TalkingReckless Mon 9 Jan - 11:18

diptiman wrote:India - democracy? - sure

only thing is people have to elect the same dynastic family again and again, from nehru to indira gandhi to rajiv to sonia's puppet our current pm to rahul..

its almost like dictatorship except that i can call my pm a glove puppet and get away with it

family politics is a big problem in all of South Asia...

i don't get how some of these parties call themselves democracies when they have family politics..

for example our President only became President because of his dead wife's will....and his 20 year old son is the chairmen and next in line
TalkingReckless
TalkingReckless
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 4200
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 32

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by che Tue 10 Jan - 2:28

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Che you're wrong, read the book The Wisdom of Crowds, you'll be surprised.

judging by the reviews, the point of the book is that the average of all views is better than a single viewpoint yes? from the examples i saw he focuses on trivial stuff like corporate products and stock markets (trivial compared to electing a government), i have no idea what that has to do with democracy working or not

in an election you have to account for so many variables that change the sample size and by extension change the three factors he listed that this theory is pretty much utterly useless

speaking from experience, in slovakia the party with most support is led by a pseudo-socialist idiot who panders to pensioners and the poor and gets elected because there's so many of them, driving the country to shit in the process because he completely disregards long-term future...

and you can't account for that with the "average is better than a few experts" if the majority of people who turn out to vote holds opinions from the 1950s and have zero understanding of politics and finance
che
che
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Benfica
Posts : 3597
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Yuri Yukuv Tue 10 Jan - 13:57

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Spain's economy didn't start to expand until Franco left, how did he transform the country in a better way? Regionalism has only increased as a result of Franco's discrimination, and it actually got worse. I'm no expert about him, but I've never heard a positive thing being said about him.

"In Madrid I breathed a sparkling atmosphere, the air of a country in Europe making the greatest progress. When I returned to Italy it seemed I had taken two steps back.

Don fabio: "Spain in two words? Latin warmth and creativity regulated by a rigorous order. The order which comes from Franco."

When reminded that Franco was a dictator, Capello replied: "But he left a legacy of order. In Spain everything works well, there is education, cleanliness, respect. We should follow their example."
Yuri Yukuv
Yuri Yukuv
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Chelsea
Posts : 1974
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 78

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Lord Hades Wed 11 Jan - 6:59

imalegend wrote:
diptiman wrote:India - democracy? - sure

only thing is people have to elect the same dynastic family again and again, from nehru to indira gandhi to rajiv to sonia's puppet our current pm to rahul..

its almost like dictatorship except that i can call my pm a glove puppet and get away with it

family politics is a big problem in all of South Asia...

i don't get how some of these parties call themselves democracies when they have family politics..

for example our President only became President because of his dead wife's will....and his 20 year old son is the chairmen and next in line

i know man, but i liked bhutto..do you know that we used to stay in the same house in junagadh guj where shanazawaz bhutto stayed before going to pakistan


on topic , even in countries like bhutan and nepal family politics rule supreme
Lord Hades
Lord Hades
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 3870
Join date : 2011-06-07
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by BeautifulGame Wed 11 Jan - 9:14

diptiman wrote:India - democracy? - sure

only thing is people have to elect the same dynastic family again and again, from nehru to indira gandhi to rajiv to sonia's puppet our current pm to rahul..

its almost like dictatorship except that i can call my pm a glove puppet and get away with it

With all due respect u are completely in the wrong.Its far far from Dictatorship.

We still have a choice.Just because people of India prefer Congress to BJP doesnt mean its like dictatorship.And we can always make that choice if someone act like a dictator like when Indra Gandhi did.So Would u have had the choice to make if its dictatorship? its even joke to compare this with dictatorship.

Did u see people of Bihar preferring dynasty politics over Nitish? Or people of Tamil Nadu.If its dictatorship they wouldnt even have a choice.

BeautifulGame
BeautifulGame
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4561
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by BeautifulGame Wed 11 Jan - 9:19

I can only see as much justification for dictatorship as one can make for slavery.

There is nothing as good dictator in my view.If he is good why wouldnt he favor democracy and face election in the first place.
BeautifulGame
BeautifulGame
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4561
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Lord Hades Fri 13 Jan - 12:49

BeautifulGame wrote:
diptiman wrote:India - democracy? - sure

only thing is people have to elect the same dynastic family again and again, from nehru to indira gandhi to rajiv to sonia's puppet our current pm to rahul..

its almost like dictatorship except that i can call my pm a glove puppet and get away with it

With all due respect u are completely in the wrong.Its far far from Dictatorship.

We still have a choice.Just because people of India prefer Congress to BJP doesnt mean its like dictatorship.And we can always make that choice if someone act like a dictator like when Indra Gandhi did.So Would u have had the choice to make if its dictatorship? its even joke to compare this with dictatorship.

Did u see people of Bihar preferring dynasty politics over Nitish? Or people of Tamil Nadu.If its dictatorship they wouldnt even have a choice.


can you honestly make a bet with me abour rahul gandhi becoming pm in the next few years>>? and all he has done is have lunch with a few up farmers ffs.. the likes of modi would be much better.
Lord Hades
Lord Hades
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 3870
Join date : 2011-06-07
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by BeautifulGame Fri 13 Jan - 21:23

diptiman wrote:
can you honestly make a bet with me abour rahul gandhi becoming pm in the next few years>>? and all he has done is have lunch with a few up farmers ffs.. the likes of modi would be much better.

I would rather have Rahul have PM than Modi any day of the week and i despise Rahul too for his antics and backing of Dig Vijay Singh.But the day Modi becomes PM of India will be a dark day in our democracy.

Either way the only i see Rahul wanting to become PM or Modi accepted as PM is only if Congress of BJP get absolute majority which is only a pipe dream.

The best candidate for PM is someone like Nitish Kumar not a sadist like Modi.

And i can 100% certain Rahul wont be PM anytime soon even if Congress comes to power again.

And having lunch however a stunt it is far far better than burning people alive and creating riots to come to power.
BeautifulGame
BeautifulGame
First Team
First Team

Posts : 4561
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by 7amood11 Fri 13 Jan - 23:03

Are there any examples of a "good" dictatorship? I honestly can't think of one.
7amood11
7amood11
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Grande_Milano Sat 14 Jan - 7:22

7amood11 wrote:Are there any examples of a "good" dictatorship? I honestly can't think of one.

Franco, Salazar, Mussolini-Hitler pre-WW2.

Qaddaffi vs pre-Qaddaffi Libya

Bad democracies: Afghanistan, Iraq, modern Islamic Spring countries, Haiti, good range of African/Latin American countries
Grande_Milano
Grande_Milano
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 2250
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by 7amood11 Sat 14 Jan - 8:22

Grande_Milano wrote:
7amood11 wrote:Are there any examples of a "good" dictatorship? I honestly can't think of one.

Franco, Salazar, Mussolini-Hitler pre-WW2.

Qaddaffi vs pre-Qaddaffi Libya

Bad democracies: Afghanistan, Iraq, modern Islamic Spring countries, Haiti, good range of African/Latin American countries

Yeah stop trolling.
7amood11
7amood11
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by kiranr Sat 14 Jan - 10:16

BeautifulGame wrote:
diptiman wrote:
can you honestly make a bet with me abour rahul gandhi becoming pm in the next few years>>? and all he has done is have lunch with a few up farmers ffs.. the likes of modi would be much better.

I would rather have Rahul have PM than Modi any day of the week and i despise Rahul too for his antics and backing of Dig Vijay Singh.But the day Modi becomes PM of India will be a dark day in our democracy.

Either way the only i see Rahul wanting to become PM or Modi accepted as PM is only if Congress of BJP get absolute majority which is only a pipe dream.

The best candidate for PM is someone like Nitish Kumar not a sadist like Modi.

And i can 100% certain Rahul wont be PM anytime soon even if Congress comes to power again.

And having lunch however a stunt it is far far better than burning people alive and creating riots to come to power.

I agree. Both Modi and Rahul are bad options, but, Rahul is the worst off the two.

kiranr
kiranr
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 3496
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by RedOranje Sat 14 Jan - 23:04

Are we treating "dictator" as the common definition or ancient?
RedOranje
RedOranje
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 11099
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by VivaStPauli Sun 15 Jan - 2:13

TBH by the type of "fact-checking" running rampant in this threads' argument, the answer will probably be: "huh?"

Though it's really just splitting hairs, every single one of those guys people complimented on this thread would fit neatly into Aristotles definition of a Tyrant :coffee:
VivaStPauli
VivaStPauli
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : FC St. Pauli
Posts : 9002
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 39

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by 7amood11 Sun 15 Jan - 3:33

RedOranje wrote:Are we treating "dictator" as the common definition or ancient?

Common definition.
7amood11
7amood11
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Liverpool
Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Lord Hades Mon 16 Jan - 2:38

BeautifulGame wrote:
diptiman wrote:
can you honestly make a bet with me abour rahul gandhi becoming pm in the next few years>>? and all he has done is have lunch with a few up farmers ffs.. the likes of modi would be much better.

I would rather have Rahul have PM than Modi any day of the week and i despise Rahul too for his antics and backing of Dig Vijay Singh.But the day Modi becomes PM of India will be a dark day in our democracy.

Either way the only i see Rahul wanting to become PM or Modi accepted as PM is only if Congress of BJP get absolute majority which is only a pipe dream.

The best candidate for PM is someone like Nitish Kumar not a sadist like Modi.

And i can 100% certain Rahul wont be PM anytime soon even if Congress comes to power again.

And having lunch however a stunt it is far far better than burning people alive and creating riots to come to power.

that riot thing isnt completely true.. but modi does have a hand in it

the thing is, have you seen gujarat.. the investments the development the safety level. hes worked wonders here.. vibrant gujarat and all. every university college has been improved.. plus he isnt a stupid puppet like most politicians . he would actually take decisions.. not to mention he isnt corrupt
Lord Hades
Lord Hades
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 3870
Join date : 2011-06-07
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Highburied Mon 16 Jan - 4:57

Josip Broz Titohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito
Highburied
Highburied
Banned (Permanent)

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2630
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Grande_Milano Mon 16 Jan - 5:20

Tito? I thought you Yugoslavians dont like him? I know Albania wasnt part of.
Grande_Milano
Grande_Milano
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 2250
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Senor Penguin Mon 16 Jan - 6:29

Grande_Milano wrote:Tito? I thought you Yugoslavians dont like him? I know Albania wasnt part of.
Communist states are secular so the divide between ethnic/religious groups was kept at bay in Yugoslavia. I'd give that credit to communism rather than Tito, even though Tito was a good leader given the circumstances. People seem to credit Tito for that though.

Senor Penguin
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 1947
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Kev Tue 17 Jan - 7:33

Wow, I've thought about this question in the past as well!

Anyway, here's my take.

Good dictatorships/ oligarchies have the highest potential of transforming a poor country into a rich one. China, for instance, has lifted the biggest number of people out of poverty in the history of mankind. The reason? Sh*t actually got done by the Communist Party. In democracies, there will always be influential forces hampering the desired moves of the incumbent government. In other words, the opposition party will always be negative and finding ways to prevent drastic (but needed) bills from being passes. Furthermore, lobby groups, powerful minority voices, NGOs etc. etc. will always be criticizing each big move and slowing down the process of getting sh*t done. A democracy can only transform a poor country into a rich one if there's bipartisanship in the parliament. FDR's tenure in the US is a good example of how a democratic nation can get sh*t done quickly.

However, once a country has become developed, good dictatorships/ oligarchies won't last and won't work too well. Former poor people will inevitably want more, eg. freedoms, liberties and less government intervention in their lives, which ultimately leads to civil unrest and possible revolutions, which are always messy affairs.

In essence, a democracy is great for preserving the status quo in developed countries, but poor in rapidly transforming it.
Kev
Kev
Starlet
Starlet

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 562
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy - Page 2 Empty Re: Good Dictatorship vs Bad Democracy

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum