Diaz vs Condit

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Who will win?

33% 33% 
[ 1 ]
33% 33% 
[ 1 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
33% 33% 
[ 1 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
 
Total Votes : 3

Diaz vs Condit

Post by sbaggio on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:00 am

Huge fight this weekend. Condit vs Diaz for the interim UFC Welterweight Championship. The winner will meet Undisputed UFC WW Champ GSP later this year.
I think Condit is way underrated and will take Diaz by KO. What do you guys think?
avatar
sbaggio
Hot Prospect
Hot Prospect

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 207
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by LeSwagg James on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:32 am

I think Condit is very dangerous but I think Diaz will win by UD.. Honestly I don't know how he keeps destroying people on the feet with his "tap tap" punches but he does, plus he's very good on the ground

Condit is lethal on his feet also but I think it will play out kind of like Nate Diaz vs Cerrone, where Diaz will just keep hitting Condit over and over and take him out of his game..

_________________
avatar
LeSwagg James
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 6587
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:24 pm

No submission option? IMO, Condit will come out blazing, not be able to really land much or put Diaz away, then Diaz will catch him with a few of his pitter-patter punches and finish him with a submission when Carlos is hurt.

...but I want Condit to win.

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:51 pm

I'm hoping to get some people together so I can actually watch this fight live. I gotta go with my boy Diaz on this one, although I actually like Condit as well. I'll go with Diaz win via TKO, I think Diaz's chin will play a big role in this fight. I'm really hyped for this fight after amateur hour on Fox last Saturday :facepalm:

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:47 am

Wow, Condit just completely outsmarted and out boxed Diaz. First time i watch him fight, i am very impressed. It's like Diaz had no other gameplan, Condit was all over him, moving in and out, escaping the death trap against the cage, kicking, kneeing, punching, spinning-punching. He controlled the pace and the range all fight long, brilliant performance imo.

Diaz is such a crybaby, talking about retiring because he lost a fight during which he was out classed by a way smarter fighter? does he expect people to just stand in front of him and take a barrage of punches? what a jokw. Shame if he retires because he is at the very top, but what a disrespectful reaction that was for the fans and Condit imo.

_________________
Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 25733
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:57 am

Very surprised at how well Condit controlled that fight. I don't think he'll beat GSP, but he definitely deserves to be the champ in his absence.

I can't believe Diaz retired either. He's 28 ffs! I also can't believe he complained about the decision; there's no way he won that fight, nor was he going to with that armbar he was so certain he would have cinched up given more time.

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:19 am

Outsmarted or ran? I'm pretty shocked at what both of you had to say about the fight (if we're even going to call it that.) I liked both fighters going in, but I've lost all respect for Condit. I'm not saying he should've keep his back against the cage and take shots from Diaz, but I would have liked to see them stand and bang. One of the worst main events I've watched in quite some time. Condit was clearly scared of Diaz and wasn't able to stand and bang like he did with Dan Hardy (a fighter I respect because he went toe to toe with Condit.) Nick Diaz is a warrior and he clearly wanted to fight Condit, not just chase him around for 5 rounds; in my opinion Diaz should have taken the fight to the ground earlier (he's a black belt in jiu jitsu,) but that's not what he's about. Sorry, I refuse to give Condit much credit as I was very disappointed by his display, all that talk about loving to put his opponents out :lol!: In my opinion the judges got that one wrong, I wouldn't award him the belt based on that performance. I understand why Diaz is frustrated, he's a real fighter and wasn't allowed to do that last night, Condit didn't want any part of that fight and only got hits because Diaz chased him down. I can understand why he's talking about retirement, why even bother with a sport where "fighters" are going to be rewarded for running away from the fight? And what exactly was disrespectful about what Diaz had to say? The crowd, did you not hear them booing, they were not satisfied with that fight and they clearly agreed with Diaz.

Mr Nick, I think you should stick to watching football and same goes for you Eman :facepalm:

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by nichabr on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:27 pm

Was a crap fight...Condit with samurai tactics lol hit'n run.....honestly i fell asleep during it and watched it the next day.

I feel though if diaz actually tried to get him to the ground earlier rather than the 5th round he could have done alot better...credit to condit though he did well in making diaz chase him all fight.

_________________
avatar
nichabr
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 1245
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:30 pm

@nichabr wrote:Was a crap fight...Condit with samurai tactics lol hit'n run.....honestly i fell asleep during it and watched it the next day.

I feel though if diaz actually tried to get him to the ground earlier rather than the 5th round he could have done alot better...credit to condit though he did well in making diaz chase him all fight.

Agreed. I just feel as if that's not in Diaz's nature, he was prepared for a war and Condit didn't want any part of that. He took way to long to bring the fight to the ground, but that's what I love about him and Nate.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by DagenhamDave on Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:41 pm

did anyone see the fight before with roy nelson, how did he take that knee to the face!!!
avatar
DagenhamDave
Hot Prospect
Hot Prospect

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 407
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:20 pm

@DagenhamDave wrote:did anyone see the fight before with roy nelson, how did he take those knees to the face!!!

Fixed :coffee:

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:01 pm

THC 10 wrote:Outsmarted or ran? I'm pretty shocked at what both of you had to say about the fight (if we're even going to call it that.) I liked both fighters going in, but I've lost all respect for Condit. I'm not saying he should've keep his back against the cage and take shots from Diaz, but I would have liked to see them stand and bang. One of the worst main events I've watched in quite some time. Condit was clearly scared of Diaz and wasn't able to stand and bang like he did with Dan Hardy (a fighter I respect because he went toe to toe with Condit.) Nick Diaz is a warrior and he clearly wanted to fight Condit, not just chase him around for 5 rounds; in my opinion Diaz should have taken the fight to the ground earlier (he's a black belt in jiu jitsu,) but that's not what he's about. Sorry, I refuse to give Condit much credit as I was very disappointed by his display, all that talk about loving to put his opponents out :lol!: In my opinion the judges got that one wrong, I wouldn't award him the belt based on that performance. I understand why Diaz is frustrated, he's a real fighter and wasn't allowed to do that last night, Condit didn't want any part of that fight and only got hits because Diaz chased him down. I can understand why he's talking about retirement, why even bother with a sport where "fighters" are going to be rewarded for running away from the fight? And what exactly was disrespectful about what Diaz had to say? The crowd, did you not hear them booing, they were not satisfied with that fight and they clearly agreed with Diaz.

Mr Nick, I think you should stick to watching football and same goes for you Eman :facepalm:
Come on now, don't exaggerate. I've been an MMA fan since the first season of TUF, and the way that fight was judged was the same way all fights are judged. If you look at fight metric, check any MMA analyst opinions, or even browse the Sherdog forums, most people felt that Condit deserved the win. Even Dana White said that he thought Condit won.

Diaz got hit more, and couldn't really get anything off. Diaz clearly had the aggression, but that's about it. Carlos did back up a lot and never really looked to finish, but he completely controlled how the fight was unfolding, and that's what martial arts is: tactics. Octagon control is basically the most important aspect of MMA. For example, a lot of people get pissed at GSP for his conservative gameplans, but at the end of the day, if you can't stop the other guy from doing what he wants and hitting you more frequently, then you lose the fight. Diaz made no attempt to change his tactics at any time, he just got pissed off and complained about the loss. Greg Jackson described it best saying something along the lines of 'if you're going to get upset because a guy hits someone else and doesn't get hit himself, then by that same standard you could say that Sugar Ray Robinson or Muhammad Ali weren't great fighters. If you can't deal with the other guy's tactics, you need to adapt, not complain about it. This is martial arts, not a pissing contest.'

And I perceived the fans booing because Diaz was throwing a fit, not because they disagreed with the decision, mainly because they continued to boo even as Diaz was talking as opposed to cheering him on. I prefer seeing a brawl too, but by the system put in place and the way MMA fights are judged, Carlos Condit won that fight. Even if you disagree, Condit easily did enough that you can't call it a bad decision.


Last edited by Eman on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:14 pm

I'll comment on that later, spent too much time today discussing this fight.

I actually even went back to re-watch it and I still think I'd give Diaz the decision. I think we have different definitions of ring control and if you watch the fight closely Diaz begins to not stalk as much in round 4-5. Condit never controlled the center of the ring and I didn't feel many of his shots were that significant.

How did you score the fight, Eman?

I had Diaz winning Rounds 1, 2, and 5

I gave Condit round 4. I honestly thought round 3 could have went either way.

I'll be sure to re-watch the fight again tomorrow morning and come back with a proper post. I'll admit I exaggerated a bit in my first post and that was due to the amount of praise you and Nick gave to Condit. I still feel that Condit ran away a bit too much for my liking, I still find it hilarious you guys are attempting to call that backing up, he would literally run away at times and reset and it kept happening over and over.

Like I said earlier in this post I'll be back tomorrow with a detailed analysis on the fight. We're all entitled to our opinions but after watching the fight again I'm more certain than Diaz got robbed.

Here's how the judges scored it....

Two judges scored it 4 rounds to 1 for Condit, the third judge scored it 3-2

Good to see my man Joe Rogan changed his outlook on the fight after watching it again...

joerogan Joe Rogan
“@NicholasLipton: rewatched the Diaz-condit fight, Diaz rds 1, 2, 5...Diaz wins...” I just watched it again too and I can see this argument


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:19 pm

I felt Condit had 1, 3 and 4. Diaz ended the 5th strong, but I also gave that one to Carlos. I only had Diaz winning the 2nd.

In fairness, I wanted Condit to win and you wanted Diaz to win, so that probably affected our opinions of what happened.

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by dmize on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:30 pm

Condit definitely didn't win round 1. Overall while Condit got more shots in(most in a b1tchmade way), Diaz had the more significant shots. I agree with Rogan I think Diaz took 1, 2, 5.
avatar
dmize
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 6650
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 30

https://twitter.com/#!/dmizee

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:34 pm

Like i said, i simply disagree with you. Diaz is probably one of the most dangerous fighter to go up against at the moment in MMA, and the reality is that you need to fight him intelligently to beat him. If you chose to stand in front of him and trade punches, he will beat you. His boxing is simply one of the finest in MMA, he doesnt throw with power, but he hits home every time, he throws a barrage of punches and if you eat that, he will punch you out.

Condit is not a power puncher, he wasnt going to trade and win against Diaz, so he laid out a very smart game plan to deal with DIaz. I give credit to Diaz for always moving forward and that's how he got his points. Condit was moving back all night long, but he was always engaging and striking. The fact that his movements were backwards doesnt mean that he "ran", He engaged while moving back, striking over and over, taking the initiative of the strike with knees, kicks, elbows etc... It's not just about banging and trying to knock the other guy out, although Condit did connect cleanly many times.

I think his gameplan was very smart, as he took Diaz completely out of his comfort zone. he was moving back while creating bursts of punches to stop Diaz from moving in, and made sure never to get stuck with his back against the cage which is the only thing Diaz was after. It's too bad Diaz wasnt smart enough to change strategy and fight differently, Condit simply controlled the fight and showed he was smarter. His reaction after was synonym of just how childish he is. He was expecting to bang head and it didnt happen. Professional fighting isnt just about that, there is strategy and tactics involved as well, and i thought this fight had that element we like about boxing sometimes.

_________________
Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 25733
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:08 am

@Eman wrote:I felt Condit had 1, 3 and 4. Diaz ended the 5th strong, but I also gave that one to Carlos. I only had Diaz winning the 2nd.

In fairness, I wanted Condit to win and you wanted Diaz to win, so that probably affected our opinions of what happened.

No disrespect, but I'd prefer if you spoke for yourself, nothing affected my opinion on the fight aside from what the fighters did in the ring. If both fighters switched bodies I would have given Condit the fight. I'll admit I was too angry to judge the fight last night and even resorted to fast forwarding the last couple of rounds. Today I watched the fight with a clear head and believe with all my conviction that Diaz won that fight.

I wanted to see Diaz win, but I was actually looking for a good fight, that's how they both sold it on primetime. I would have had no problem with Carlos "The Natural Born Killer" Condit winning, but not by throwing a few shots and running away. He landed some good shots, there's no denying that, but a good amount of his punches/kicks were weak attempts and he was more concerned with not getting hit. He went into that fight looking to not lose and I can't respect that. Condit was 27-5 going into this fight and only had one previous decision in his career - 13 Knockouts and 13 Submissions

@Nick

Watch the fight again and tell me you feel the same way. When watching the fight again you can see that Nick does change his game-plan and didn't resort to just moving forward and stalking Condit, you can even hear his corner giving him good advice and he followed it. This isn't the type of fight you should just watch once. Maybe you'll watch it again and see something different, I'm guessing you'll opt to not watch the fight again.

Your post shows me you know nothing about Diaz and his character. How did you come to the conclusion that Diaz is childish? How much do you really know about this guy? He's been training in Martial arts since the age of 16 and he is a very disciplined individual. He helped get his brother off the streets and turned him onto MMA. What you saw last night was a man who is very passionate about what he does and he feels that he got robbed and I can't blame him for that. He doesn't like the cameras and the B.S. that comes with being a UFC fighter, unlike others he actually keeps it real. I suggest you watch the primetime show (I'll share youtube videos at the end of my post.

He said and I quote, "Carlos is a great guy, I'm happy for him and his family." "Good job Carlos, you're the man, bro." Joe Rogan went on to ask him if he was serious about retiring and he responded, "You know I don't need this sh*t you know what I mean? I pushed this guy backwards the whole time, he ran from me the whole fight, he ran this whole fight. I landed the harder shots, he ran the whole time, he kicked me with little baby leg kicks the whole fight. So that was the way they understand how to win in here, I don't want to play this game no more"

I highly doubt he's going to retire and he's just upset because he puts in a lot of work into his job.

It's like I told Eman, we obviously have different definitions of controlling the fight. How can someone who is constantly backing up and running be in control of the fight? All night long Diaz controlled the center of the octagon and that says it all for me. You also claim to have never seen Condit fight, he went toe to toe with Dan Hardy and they just stood and banged. I was shocked that he opted to "fight" the way he did. Once again, not saying he had to stand in-front and eat shots, but you can fight without resorting to running. I know, I know, you don't believe he was running, but I ask you to watch the fight again and see if you feel the same way.

You also said he was moving back while creating bursts of punches to stop Diaz from moving in, I don't remember seeing that earlier today. Diaz was never stopped from moving in, he just eventually stopped just stalking Condit and picked his spots a little better (changed his game plan.) It's clear to me both of you won't be changing your mind, but perhaps watching the fight again you will see a little bit of what I've brought up in this post.






This last video shows how eager he is to learn and is always growing as a mixed martial artist.



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:20 am

And for those of you bringing up the stats argument....

VIII. JUDGES

A. No judge will have a financial interest in any fighter he judges.

B. No judge will be a manager/trainer of any fighter he judges.

C. In a bout goes to it's full time limit, the outcome will be decided by a majority decision of three, (3), MMAC judges.

D. A judge is accredited, sanctioned and selected based upon his character, experience, stature in the MMA world, knowledge of MMA systems and impartiality.

E. Judging Criteria
1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:
-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
-Octagon Control
-Effective Aggressiveness

F. Clean Strikes
1. The fighter who is landing both effective and efficient clean strikes.
2. There are two ways of measuring strikes:
-the total number of clean strikes landed (more efficient) -the total number of heavy strikes landed (more effective)

G. The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed.
1. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria.
2. The total number of strikes landed, should be of sufficient quantity favoring a fighter, to earn a winning round.

H. Strikes thrown from the top position of the guard, are generally heavier and more effective than those thrown from the back.
1. Thus a Judge shall recognize that effective strikes thrown from the top guard position are of "higher quality", than thrown from the bottom.
2. The Judge shall recognize that this is not always the case.
However, the vast majority of fighters prefer the top guard position to strike from. This is a strong indication of positional dominance for striking.

I. Effective Grappling
1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.
2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.
3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.
4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.
5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4) 6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.
7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling

J. Octagon Control
1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.
2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.
3. A grappler who can takedown an effective standing striker to ground fight is octagon control.
4. The fighter on the ground who creates submission, mount or clean striking opportunities

K. Effective Aggressiveness
1. This simply means who is moving forward and finding success.(scoring) 2. Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward.
3. Throwing strikes and not landing is not effective aggressiveness.
4. Moving forward and getting struck is not effective aggressiveness.
5. Shooting takedowns and getting countered and fended off is not effective aggressiveness.

L. Criteria Evaluation
1. Each judge is to evaluate which fighter was most effective. Thus striking and grappling skills are top priority.
2. Evaluating the criteria requires the use of a sliding scale. Fights can remain standing or grounded.
Judges shall recognize that it isn't how long the fighters are standing or grounded, as to the scoring the fighters achieve ,while in those positions.
3. If 90% of the round is grounded one fighter on top, then:
-effective grappling is weighed first.
-clean striking is weighed next. If clean strikes scored in the round, the Judge shall factor it in. Clean Striking can outweigh Effective Grappling while the fighters are grounded.
-octagon control is next (pace, place & position)

4. The same rational holds true if 90% of the round were standing. Thus:
-clean striking would be weighed first (fighter most effective) -clean grappling second (any takedowns or effective clinching) -octagon control which fighter maintained better position? Which fighter created the situations that led to effective strikes?

5. If a round was 50% standing and 50% on the ground, then:
-clean striking and effective grappling are weighed more equally.
-octagon control would be factored next

6. In all three hypothetical situations, effective aggressiveness is factored in last. It is the criteria of least importance. Since the definition calls for moving forward and scoring, it is imperative for the Judges to look at the scoring first.

7. Thus for all Judges scoring UFC fights, the prioritized order of evaluating criteria is:
-clean strikes and effective grappling are weighed first.
-octagon control
-effective aggressiveness

M. Domination Criteria
1. A Judge may determine that a fighter dominated his opponent in a round. This can lead to a two point or more difference on a Judge's scorecard.
2. The definition of a dominating round is a fighter's ability to effectively strike, grapple and control his opponent.
3. A Judge may determine a round was dominating if a fighter was adversely affected by one of the
following:
-knocked down from standing position by clean strike -by submission attempt -from a throw -from clean strikes either standing or grounded.

N. Judge's Scorecard Procedures
After each round:
1. each Judge will determine and record a score each round 2. a MMAC official will collect the scorecard after each round 3. the MMAC official will track and add each Judges score by round 4. If the fight goes the time limit, the MMAC official will add each Judge's scorecard and double check total 5. the fighter with the greater number of points wins the fight on each Judges scorecard 6. the fighter who won on the majority of the Judges Scorecards, wins the fight 7. the MMAC official will hand the decision to the PA announcer

O. Types of Judge's Decisions
1. If all three scorecards agree Unanimous 2. If two of three scorecards agree Split 3. Two scorecards agree and one draw Majority 4. two scorecards agree on draw Draw 5. all scorecards different Draw

IX SCORING SYSTEM

A. The MMAC and UFC have adopted a 10 point must system.
The Judge will use the criteria to determine a winner each round. The three step procedure per round is as follows:
-determine winner of round (can be draw) -determine if winner dominated round -fouls then factored in (subtract one point per foul from fighter)

B. Draws are again acceptable in MMAC events

C. Point Totals
1. two fighters who draw are given a score of 10-10 2. the fighter who wins a round is given a score of 10-9 3.The fighter who dominates a round is given a score of 10-8 (a score of 10-7 is possible for a dominant round) 4.For each foul a fighter commits, a point is subtracted. This deduction can change a winning round to a draw. 9-9

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by LeSwagg James on Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:36 am

I might re-watch the fight but from what I saw, Condit won.. He fought like a girl but hey he won

Its kind of hard for a boxer to fight a kickboxer with a 'countering game plan'.. 4 limbs > 2 limbs

_________________
avatar
LeSwagg James
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 6587
Join date : 2011-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:45 am

The reason I say that Condit controlled the fight is because he wanted to keep moving and strike like he did from the outside, where as Diaz did not want this to happen. If someone is doing exactly what he wants and the other guy is just trying to keep him from doing it, the guy doing what he wants is controlling the fight. Standing in the center isn't control in my books because it gave Diaz no advantage.

By the way, here's the fight metric stats:
http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/02/condit-vs-diaz-official-ufc-statistics.html

Diaz had grappling, but it only lasted a few seconds, and he also had aggression, but Condit had 'effective striking' in the bag due to domination of leg attacks, as well as octagon control IMO, so according to the rules that the sport is governed by, he won for me. In a back-alley fist fight Diaz would surely win, but in an MMA competition Condit fought smart. I did expect Condit to come out a bit more aggressive, but coming from Jackson's camp, he was probably told this was a terrible idea and that's why he adjusted accordingly.

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:22 am

My biggest beef at the moment is with you giving Condit round 1, I'm assuming your giving him that round due to leg kicks (correct me if I'm mistaken.) I'm good with giving Condit rounds 3 and 4, although I'd say round 3 was a toss up. Are you basing your decision off Fight metric or did you go back and watch the fight again?

Round 1: Diaz had 28 strikes (16 head, 11 body and 1 leg)
Condit had 30 strikes (7 head, 7 body and 16 leg)

I'm quite shocked you'd give that first round to Condit and I think it's a joke to call his leg kicks effective in that Round (I counted 5-6 effective leg kicks from Condit that round). You're telling me he had octagon control, what leads you to that conclusion? Nick constantly pressured Condit and his leg kicks were used to keep Diaz away, which didn't really work, hence Diaz landing as many shots as he did. That tells me Diaz was able to do what he wanted to do and Condit failed in applying his game-plan for that round.

It seems that most people backing Condit are reverting back to the Fight Metric stats (I've been on the UFC forums as well.)

Obviously I'm not going to change your mind and all I can say is the fight was close, but I fail to see how Condit controlled the fight, I'm willing to say he implemented his game plan well in two rounds. His best round was the 4th and that's the only round he actually somewhat impressed me. Other than that he resorted to running and resetting over and over again.

@Eman wrote:The reason I say that Condit controlled the fight is because he wanted to keep moving and strike like he did from the outside, where as Diaz did not want this to happen. If someone is doing exactly what he wants and the other guy is just trying to keep him from doing it, the guy doing what he wants is controlling the fight. Standing in the center isn't control in my books because it gave Diaz no advantage.


So you're saying Diaz just stood in the center of the ring? That's not what I said, I believe I said that he controlled the center and brought the fight to Condit and landed some shots when he got close, not much Nick can do about Condit running back to the center and looking to reset other than continuing to bring the fight to Condit (which he did in those first two rounds.) Still don't see how you claim Condit controlled that fight, maybe all fighters should look implement running in their game-plan when they fear their opponent because it's obvious that the judges see that as octagon control. Sorry man, I've put in my work and I think your bias is clouding your judgement, your interpretation of MMA is a joke in my opinion.

This will be my final post in the thread, I think I've done as much as I possibly can and you seem to keep resorting back to FightMetric stats which I've already taken into account.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:59 am

I only watched it once, so maybe he didn't win round 1. At the time I felt that he did though, but regardless that's still 3, 4 and 5. And I fail to see how I am hiding behind fight metric considering I referenced it once previously in a brief fashion (jumbled in a sentence with a lot of other information), and then posted the link in a separate comment several hours later because I felt someone should at least put it in the thread.

Perhaps you also took my wording a little too literally when I said Diaz was "standing" in the center. I didn't literally mean he stood still, just that his central positioning didn't help him given Condit's game plan. Condit wasn't trying to control the center to begin with. It was a game plan; it's not like he came in, shit his pants, and then decided to start running.

On the literal wording note, I admitted that I wanted Condit to win, but it's not like I disregarded whatever Nick did. I'm not a huge Condit fan at all, I was just leaning towards him, but if he had lost I wouldn't have cared too much, and I think it's pretty clear you like Diaz more than I like Condit. I was saying it as somewhat of a compromise so that we wouldn't carry on an argument that wasn't going anywhere and I didn't want to have, but it clearly didn't work.

I'm surprised you're so offended by my interpretation of the fight tbh. The reason that Condit won the fight in the judge's eyes is the exact reasoning I'm providing, and a lot of people agree with it because this exact type of fight has been played out many times and this is often how people have judged fights like this. Shogun vs. Machida 1 is a great example of someone completely avoiding shots, basically running backwards, mostly just throwing leg kicks, and everybody claiming he was totally robbed when the decision wasn't given for him (even though Shogun more than made up for it in the rematch). It's not who won the fight, but who won the contest. You can disagree with that interpretation of the rules, and disagree that Condit even controlled the fight or deserved to win for that matter, but this isn't some opinion I have come up with and nobody agrees with.

Here is a pretty solid list of people who agree with my take on the fight (including fighters such as Ben Henderson, Stephan Bonnar, Jon Fitch, Bas Rutten and Frank Shamrock, and just about every major MMA analyst on the internet): http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/media-score-diaz-vs-condit-1997907/

I'm honestly not even a fan of points fighters. My favourite fighter ever is Cro Cop, followed closely by Fedor, Shogun, Bas Rutten, Clay Guida, Wanderlei, Big Nog, Dan Henderson and lately Roy Nelson. Most of the guys I just mentioned go in there with no other goal than to finish fights (except for Guida, who basically is in there on crazy hair alone). But, if someone can get a victory over someone more dangerous than themselves using strategy, even if it's a pansy strategy at that, I can see some merit in that.

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:07 pm





Sorry if I came off a little strong yesterday and I do respect your opinion (even if I said otherwise last night,) but I still feel like you should watch the fight again. It was one of those fights that you need to watch more than once to judge (in my opinion.) You might just come back with the same opinion, or you might still feel the same way, but I'd feel better knowing you gave it a second look and didn't just look at those statistics after watching the fight once.

I honestly think that a lot of people have the wrong impression about Nick Diaz and that could be clouding their judgement (maybe not you,) but all over the UFC forums people are calling Nick a gang banging thug and are bringing up things that have nothing to do with the actual fight. I liked what Joe Rogan said in the video about the judges, his idea is that they should be watching the fight on a big screen and not sitting ringside.

I've actually really enjoyed the end of this debate and it's been fun. There's no love lost on my end and I apologize for anything I said yesterday that might have offended you.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Eman on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Alright, well I guess this is one of those fights that people will debate for a while. It probably wouldn't be that big of a deal if it wasn't such a big occasion, but if Diaz chooses not to retire they will eventually fight again anyways. I will probably watch it again eventually, although in fairness it wasn't the most exciting fight so we'll see how long it takes me to do that Razz

Next event is Sanchez vs. Ellenberger. We'll see if such a debate arises again in a week's time!

_________________
avatar
Eman
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 2906
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Re: Diaz vs Condit

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:18 pm

Seems like the rematch is all but official.

@Eman, I don't blame you for not wanting to watch that fight again, in all honestly I struggled to get through it the first time around and resorted to fast occasionally fast forwarding once I got to the third round. Eventually I had to watch the whole fight because I wanted to give my honest opinion and analysis on the fight.

I figured that retirement talk was just Diaz's emotions getting the best of him and I can understand where he was coming from (I think I said that in a earlier post.) He just needed sometime to sit down and clear his head, or maybe he just needed to have a talk with his coaches.

I've actually been posting over on the UFC forums and this was my final (most clear headed post on the fight)

I initially watched the fight and couldn't really sit through it due to Condit's "game-plan" and the tactics he resorted to. I was ready for a war and I'm not even sure we got a fight. I decided to watch the fight again so I could debate the it properly and came to the conclusion Nick won rounds 1, 2 and 5 (I thought round 3 could have went either way.) I quickly realized a majority of those who thought Condit won had a hate for Diaz and I think that really clouded their judgement, or they were quick to bring up the statistics about total strikes landed. (Directed at posters from the UFC forum)

Let me make this clear, I have no problem with people thinking Condit won (although it seems like these Condit "fans" won't allow us to have out own opinion on the fight) and will agree the fight was a tough one to score. This to me shows that they're biased and they fail to listen to any opinion that doesn't match their own.

After debating with a certain poster on other forum, I decided I had to watch the fight again and really analyze each round and keep an eye out for the kicks Carlos was landing. I really concentrated on Round 1 because stats showed that Diaz was out-struck by Condit; here are the numbers...

Round 1: Diaz had 28 strikes (16 head, 11 body and 1 leg)
Condit had 30 strikes (7 head, 7 body and 16 leg)

I thought out of the 16 leg kicks, only 5-6 were actually powerful enough to do any damage and it was clear to me that round belonged to Nick. Please keep in mind the second time watching the fight I didn't bother with checking the stats and only judged based on what I saw. After all MMA fights are supposed to be judged by more than just striking...

(Judging Criteria)
1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:
-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
-Octagon Control
-Effective Aggressiveness

Round 2 Diaz out-stuck 35 to 29 and Condit landed 11 leg kicks. Just watching without thinking about statistics, I easily gave this round to Diaz. This alone is one of the reasons I have issues with two judges scoring the fight four rounds to one in favor of Diaz (but it's like I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their opinions and the fight was a difficult one to score. )

Round 4 was the only round I thought Condit took hands down and while Condit out-struck Diaz 33 to 24 in round 3 (15 of Condit's 33 strikes were leg kicks.) Only 1 out of Diaz's 24 strikes came from leg kicks. By eye alone, I thought Diaz could have been given this round as well, but I'm willing to give Condit the round.

Round 5 Condit landed 30 strikes (9 were leg kicks) and Diaz landed 19 (2 were leg kicks.) But Diaz took Condit down with 1:51 to go in the round and went to immediate back control. It looked to me like he attempted one submission, I've read from some other posters that he attempted two. I thought the take down was huge and should have helped Nick take that final round.

The fight was tight, but I thought Diaz forced the action and I thought he had the effective aggressiveness; Nick controlled the center of the octagon and somehow people still think he implemented his game-plan. Even if you come to that conclusion you can't tell me Nick didn't do what he wanted, I find it funny that people disagree just because he couldn't keep Carlos with his back to the cage (not really sure what you expected him (Diaz) to do.

At the end of the day I'm willing to hear out anyone who is willing to sit down and have an intelligent conversation about the fight. It's those who are quick to bring Nick's character into the debate that I discount, what does that have to do with the fight that took place Saturday night?

This fight has consumed my life for the last couple of days and I thought this would be the perfect thread to make my final post (on any forum I visit.)

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum