Media Crusade?

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Media Crusade?

Post by stevieg8 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:25 pm

I wanna start off by saying that I fully understand this could just be the biased perception of a slighted fan, and that it's more of a rant than an actual position. So supporters from other teams, I realize that this is probably just unreasonable and ridiculous.

That being said, I was listening to a podcast today about the premier league, and considering the week and a half pool has had, figured that I might be able to hear some positive analysis of the team for the first time this year. So imagine my surprise when, touching on Liverpool, the 60 second discussion amounted to a reference to Suarez being a racist, a joke about how "impressive" it was to have beaten Wolves, and how we only won the Man U game because the Mancs played even worse than our "terrible football." Now maybe I'm being biased, but I thought we looked pretty good in these past three games - we not only won, but actually looked solid both in defense and attack, and won convincingly, but this brief reference indicated no such thing. Having listened consistently to this podcast throughout the year, I'm certain that if I hadn't watched a game, I'd assume Liverpool were serious underdogs in most games and were languishing near the bottom of the table (and playing boring, ugly football to boot).

But it's not just this one, not-very-serious podcast. Every article I've read on various sites throughout the season has mocked Liverpool for their play, win or lose. There's a lot to criticize in this season, but it's been at a consistent level that I haven't seen for any other club, and I have yet to see any respect given to the team following any game. Furthermore, I have yet to find an article anywhere that even mentions possible doubts about the FA charges against Suarez - it seems that all journos have agreed completely with the results of the investigation, that the ban is fully deserved and warranted, and that there was clear proof against him.

This is in contrast to reactions I've found from neutral fans - sometimes against us, sometimes for us on any of these topics, but at least generally well reasoned with the nuances that come with legitimate thought. Nuances that assume that there is no situation in which a team or person is all bad (talent or morality wise) or all good, but that there are positives and negatives to everything, and should be acknowledged as such.

So being a relatively new fan, I figured I'd ask people who have been around for longer - is this a new phenomenon, or is Liverpool generally treated as the punching bag? Is it because of style of play, or something in the front office a la the hatred towards rich clubs purchasing all the players? Is it a political undercurrent in England I know nothing about? Do our fans have negative reputations with the rest of the league? Why is it that there is NO credit given to the team in the media?

Or conversely, am I just imagining slights where they don't exist because of my affiliation?
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by Art Morte on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:31 pm

First of all, I like your effort with the thread Thumbs up
This sort of stuff helps keeping the forum alive.

As for the topic, I think I simply don't care. I feel I know well enough myself how our team and players and people are alike, I don't need some half-ass podcast reporter telling me his judgement.

I like it that we've been good defensively before excelling offensively. That's how you should build. I've got no problem what so ever with our style. Then again, I only care about our results, couldn't give a rat's ass about our style as long as I believe it's the best for us.

Anyway, I wouldn't get irritated about anything media related. Support your beloved club and make your own judgements, why to care about what anyone else says?

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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by poolsupporter on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:23 am

I love reading and listening to other perspectives in regards to how we played as well as other situations dealing with LFC.

However, you are right stevie. We've generally, since I've been following LFC, been bashed by a lot of the media. It's what has lead to the 'Scouse, not English' mentality by a lot of our fans.

Furthermore, one has to remember that like us regular fans, I don't believe these so called 'journalists' watch all the games in a given week. I wouldn't be surprised if they catch a few highlights and make up the rest as they go along.

I watched us against United on Fox Soccer here in the States and it's ridiculous how much the commentators bashed Andy Carroll regardless of how well he was performing on the pitch. But it's nothing new for the media to jump on a bandwagon and spew out rubbish just to fill their pages or the air.

Like Art though, it usually doesn't bother me, though it does every now and then.

I would like to add that this whole Suarez saga has sort of been the last straw as far as the media are concerned for me.
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by stevieg8 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:44 am

I'm not saying that it ruins the game for me, or that it really upsets me (in a large perspective sense). I agree with the both of you that for the most part, I couldn't care less about the media narrative. But I do notice all of these little slights, and it gets somewhat frustrating - and even worse, other fans (a better source of information and debate than most news sites) seem to buy into a lot of it, obviously because they too aren't going to be spending much time on the Liverpool-Blackburn fixtures. Here in the states, though, when this happens it generally has a source. Yankees fans are considered bandwagoners because of how dominant they've been (and, from my perspective because they largely aren't knowledgeable Razz), people generally dislike the Miami Heat because of how their team was assembled and the shady business around that, Midwest teams like the Steelers (or a team like the Raiders, or Jail Blazers from back in the day) are generally looked down upon as a lower economic class, and Boston fans like myself are considered arrogant (you know, because we're the best). These teams get rooted against for a variety of reasons, and the media coverage usually ends up largely negative, but there's typically a source for it, but I can't figure out why anyone is piling onto Liverpool so much right now, so I was wondering if there was some source behind it.
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by Fahim89 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:39 am

Well simple dude! all the boos are easily overshadowed by the noise of the kop & the traveling fans ! ! Thumbs up

The rest is just bla bla bla & bla bla blahhhhh Razz
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by RedOranje on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:17 am

Touching first on the Suarez comments:
The English media (and to an extent that conspiracy theories allow, the FA) needed a "fall guy" for the racism incidents. They needed to gain political points over UEFA/FIFA (the FA) and distract from the beloved English Captain's incident (media). Suarez, unfortunately, ended up filling in for that role. It is far easier to condemn a foreign international, and by extension his culture, than to point out flaws in the one's own national society. The hypocrisy shown in the media's coverage of the two situations (especially that of The Mirror) is nothing short of shocking.

As for the coverage of Liverpool in general:
It's nothing new, and to be honest, it's not at all surprising. It's hardly isolated to Liverpool, however. Newcastle and, to a lesser extent Arsenal, suffer similar bias. It's related to the history of the clubs (nothing makes for better sales than poking fun at an old giant crumbling) and to the foreign managers/ownership. Rafa and Wenger have done little to engender themselves with the English media and in his previous managerial stints Kenny was no darling of theirs either.

Finally, Liverpool don't have the intimidation factor that Fergie seems to have nor the "media darling" status that Chelsea's previous managers (though even AVB has felt the pressure this season) have had.

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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by poolsupporter on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:22 am

@stevieg8 wrote:I'm not saying that it ruins the game for me, or that it really upsets me (in a large perspective sense). I agree with the both of you that for the most part, I couldn't care less about the media narrative. But I do notice all of these little slights, and it gets somewhat frustrating - and even worse, other fans (a better source of information and debate than most news sites) seem to buy into a lot of it, obviously because they too aren't going to be spending much time on the Liverpool-Blackburn fixtures. Here in the states, though, when this happens it generally has a source. Yankees fans are considered bandwagoners because of how dominant they've been (and, from my perspective because they largely aren't knowledgeable Razz), people generally dislike the Miami Heat because of how their team was assembled and the shady business around that, Midwest teams like the Steelers (or a team like the Raiders, or Jail Blazers from back in the day) are generally looked down upon as a lower economic class, and Boston fans like myself are considered arrogant (you know, because we're the best). These teams get rooted against for a variety of reasons, and the media coverage usually ends up largely negative, but there's typically a source for it, but I can't figure out why anyone is piling onto Liverpool so much right now, so I was wondering if there was some source behind it.

I'm relatively new to the States and North American sports in general even though I've lived in this part of the world for years. (North America)

The thing to remember is that a lot of these pundits and journalists have usually grown up in a country/city/town with strong allegiances to one soccer/football team or another. Rivalries are fierce and as such it's not hard to observe a lot of bias within reports, blogs or commentaries.

From what little I have seen of sports in the U.S, it's about the same as far as rivalries go. My relatives, for example, have a strong dislike for the Patriots and the Red Sox. Their kids seem to have taken on the same dislike as well.

Forget for a second this dislike that gets passed down generations. Look at foreign supporters as a whole. There are tons on this very forum for example who hate rival teams for no apparent reason other than the fact that they are rivals. So many of our foreign fans call United Scum, so many of their fans refer to us as the same.

The point I'm getting at is that as much as we'd like sports journalism to be fair and narrative (though some of it is to an extent), bias is always going to creep in. Furthermore, a number of these journalists have built up strong followings and have worked for years thus allowing a lot of crap to flow through their pages, etc.

We can also talk about human nature to hate, for lack of a better word. Log onto Liverpool specific forums or any other team's forums for that matter, and you'll come across multiple individuals who seem to be more engrossed in insulting or hating on a rival team as opposed to supporting their own. It could start off slow, but eventually it just builds up and people start criticizing everything.

(I apologize if I'm rambling here)

The source, then? Liverpool fans and the city as a whole is usually known for lower income and blue collar type workers. (I apologize if I'm generalizing too much here.) I've noticed this in movies, stand up comedy, etc. that a lot of the country generally seem to look down on people from areas like these. In addition, Hillsborough seemed to be somewhat of a turning point as well. A lot of people were quick to believe all the false reports about Liverpool fans and gradually, these types of reputations have stuck.

Liverpool have never been the kind of club to follow someone's lead or forced to think a certain way. The club has always maintained a certain type of personality which allows them to stand up for themselves to be heard. In addition to the success that has come our way throughout our history then, we've also developed a certain level of arrogance (for lack of a better word). It's not hard to see why certain people would hate this club.

Ultimately, as a fan, you would be best advised to figure out which sources are legitimate and which ones aren't. You turn on Fox news in America and it generally seems like a very pro-republican news station. The same can be said for CNN. Papers, blogs, individual journalists can start out being neutral and narrative, but eventually, they're going to give their opinion on certain things and bias will always we observable by some people.

(Sorry for the long post. I'm sure I veered off topic for a bit there)
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by iftikhar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:35 am

I think what you (and us as well) have witnessed is the typical of so-called main-stream media. This attitude is rampant in other stories (politics etc.) they run.

How many stories have you seen bashing Juventus after they were demoted!!! Now compare the number of stories about ADP choosing to stay at the demoted Juventus rather than jumping the ship.

How many stories have you seen praising Batigol (Argentina, Fiorentina, Roma)!!! Now compare the number of stories about him choosing to stay at the religated Fiorentia rather than jumping the ship.

How many stories have you seen about the World Cup draw. How many stories you seen about rampant corruption & lack of democratic practice in FIFA!!!

They are widespread rumor (allegations) that the two leading dailies in Spain simply vouch for either of the big two.
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by stevieg8 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:20 pm

"It pains me to say that their most important player has been Martin Skrtel, he's been immense... It's tough though, because he looks like the kind of bloke who would wear a T-shirt that says 'I'd rather be ethnic cleansing.'"
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by iftikhar on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:52 pm

@stevieg8 wrote:"It pains me to say that their most important player has been Martin Skrtel, he's been immense... It's tough though, because he looks like the kind of bloke who would wear a T-shirt that says 'I'd rather be ethnic cleansing.'"

Holy shit. Where did you find this piece of garbage!!! These people are becoming increasingly creative.
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by poolsupporter on Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:09 pm

Jeez, that's terrible. Which paper is that from and which author?
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by stevieg8 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:10 pm

From the same podcast I mentioned earlier, which I think I'm going to stop listening to... It's meant to be a less serious podcast, attempts at humor along with the football analysis - it's one of the "let's try and get americans into the game" ones, so its not like you can take the content too seriously. but that was ridiculous.
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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:02 pm

We are now the most hated team for basically all PL clubs. Just look at their forums....and an obvious example of it on goal legacy (cough, discopants). Same morons who said Rafa is a fat waiter, and Moyes is a better manager than him

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Re: Media Crusade?

Post by donttreadonred on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:05 pm

Since popular opinion has radically turned against LFC and its supporters recently, I felt the need to share some relatively positive press I found. This was written by Frank Wagner, a Bleacher Report Correspondent.

"In the wake of the handshake that never was, outrage at Luis Suarez's actions has been loud and plentiful.

Present and former players, pundits, coaches and owners have condemned the Uruguayan Liverpool striker for refusing to shake the hand of Patrice Evra, the French United defender who accused him of making racial remarks toward him on the pitch in October.

The scene led to extreme tension between the two squads that resulted in a halftime tunnel brawl and commotion at the final whistle, when Evra celebrated his club's victory by dancing in front of Suarez.

Despite these wild happenings, the Football Association has decided not to take disciplinary action against any party due to their actions Saturday. Whether this was the correct decision is questionable, though.

Immediately after the match, Kenny Dalglish gave an interview supporting Suarez. On Sunday, Dalglish made a new statement condemning Suarez and his actions and apologizing for his own comments.

Some may ask for Dalglish to be punished, but I rather feel for the manager. He claimed in the same post-match interview where he supported Suarez that he did not see him snub Evra's handshake. Further, given that Suarez had told him that he would shake Evra's hand, it must have been confusing and a tough position for the manager.

Hence, I find Dalglish's apology more than suitable to exonerate him.

Similarly, I see Suarez's apology after the match to be enough to pardon his actions.

After all, what did Suarez do in this instance?

Let's not lose focus on the fact that this is all over a handshake—there have been numerous instances of players refusing to shake hands with other players.

Also, look at the situation from Suarez's point of view: he has claimed on numerous occasions that he did not intend to offend Evra or make him feel uncomfortable with his comments. Clearly, he does not believe his comments in October to have been inflammatory.

In any event, he is wrong no matter what because he did insult Evra. However, given that he was suspended eight matches and labeled a racist, it's understandable that he would view it as a sore subject and hold a bit of animosity toward Evra.

Yes, Suarez should have shaken Evra's hand, but he apologized for it.

It was just a handshake—no punishment is the right call.

On the other hand, I see Evra as lucky to escape without punishment.

Most have glossed over his antics at the full-time whistle, claiming that they were understandable given the circumstances.

However, I see no circumstance in which intentionally dancing in front of an opponent is justifiable, especially given that his "justifiable circumstance" was a mere lack of handshake.

Evra's actions were the grossest form of unsportsmanlike behavior.

Even his manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, claimed in his post-match interview that Evra's actions were not right.

Ferguson also took the high road in calling Suarez "a disgrace" and claiming that "he could have caused a riot" (hilarious given his history defending his own players' actions).

However, Evra's actions were much closer to doing so. They clearly could have incited a brawl had the referees not been quick to extinguish the flames.

To top it off, the French defender has not apologized or expressed any remorse for his actions.

The FA have made up their minds and feel that refraining to take action is the best course for this matter.

This will not stop the media from painting Luis Suarez as the villain of the piece.

However, Patrice Evra will seemingly get off lightly on all fronts."

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