Very little doubt in my mind, Messi has peaked

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Post by II Capitano Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:40 pm

Peaking means that you're at your highest level and that can be said about Messi right now, you don't expect him to maintain the same level for another few years. What's great about Messi is, even though he'll lose pace, he will become a great play maker, which has become more apparent over the last couple of seasons.

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Post by billionmillion Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:48 pm

So which year is your highest level? how you define that
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Post by II Capitano Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:56 pm

billionmillion wrote:So which year is your highest level? how you define that
Well, Messi's highest level, undoubtedly, was last season, but I would say he peaked in 07/08, just before Guardiola arrived, you could make a case that he peaked in 09/10. Peak may not be the right word, essentially.
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Post by billionmillion Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:59 pm

thats what i'm saying
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Post by II Capitano Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:00 pm

Glad we agree, initially, I admit I didn't read any of the previous posts, hehe.
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:02 pm

Messi is an early bloomer. He peaked in 2008-2010/11. His stats are better because Barca since last year is about Messi. All players are playing for him. But practically he is worse. Both Ronaldo and Messi regressed considerably on technical level from last 1-2 seasons. They are not like Iniesta/Ozil/Xavi to grow with age.


OH GOD ! This shit Ronaldo-Messi era is going to end.
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Post by shinigami99 Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:31 pm

zece wrote:Messi is an early bloomer. He peaked in 2008-2010/11. His stats are better because Barca since last year is about Messi. All players are playing for him. But practically he is worse. Both Ronaldo and Messi regressed considerably on technical level from last 1-2 seasons. They are not like Iniesta/Ozil/Xavi to grow with age.


OH GOD ! This shit Ronaldo-Messi era is going to end.

there was only the messi era for me :coffee:
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:44 pm

Eh, he's just tired. Have faith in him and he'll repay you with more magic to come. Your key arguments seem to be "he doesn't chip, therefore he's becoming predictable" and "he's losing the ball more now when dribbling, even though he dribbles less". The first is a criticism that is understandable, but the later i find is only applicable to games in the immediate past. He needs a week of solid rest and we will see his best form again. He's human.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind him peaking so long as he plateaus for a few more years at a similar level Razz
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Post by Albiceleste Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:46 pm

55+goals and 30 + assist seasons are his peak? I'm okay with this

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Post by Dnmac4 Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:01 pm

This thread is such a joke. The expectations placed upon Barca and Messi on this forum are so high no team or player can ever reach them.

One person on here praised Ronaldo in his win yesterday for his defensive play when every game Messi plays he is better defensively then Ronaldo (one of the worst defensive players ever) and yesterday Ronaldo produced 0/0 goals and assists and Messi had 1/1 goals and assists.

To come on a forum and use a game where a player set up the go ahead goal and scored the winning goal and use that as his "bad game" is just going full retard.

Not to mention not one person has even hinted that Sociedad is actually a good team with some very good players on it. But I'm sure 90% of the posters on here have never even watched them play. From some of the comments on here you would have thought he was playing against a bunch of scrubs.

People point to the chances he missed and use that against him but why don't you try using your brain and realize that he sets up so many chances for himself and his team that he can miss a couple golden opportunities in a game and end up as man of the match with a goal and assist.

It's not easy to set up these opportunities over and over again especially with a makeshift team that has probably never taken the pitch together and no Xavi or Iniesta to help him.

It's hilarious, before it was Messi only produces his great stats because of Xavi and Iniesta and now he plays without either one of them or Busquets for that matter and he sets up so many golden opportunities for himself and his teammates that he misses a few and he's peaking while still scoring a goal and an assist.

I mean the logic is so flawed it's a joke especially when you compare his performances to some of the other players people on here praise.

I just can't believe this thread was even made for a player who may lead Europe in goals and assists this year and this is his "bad year" or year he's peaked. If you can't understand that Messi will keep his goal scoring at the same incredible level it's been at and then also add to that the most assists in Europe then I don't know what to tell you.

Please tell me what more this player needs to do to impress you or see that he hasn't peaked? I mean what in the world do you expect from him?
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Post by LeSwagg James Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:20 pm

I think Barca should just rest him for the rest of the season, he looks tired :coffee:
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Post by Valkyrja Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:34 pm

@dnmac4
since 2010 Messi doesn't run when he hasn't the ball.
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:50 pm

dnmac4 wrote:This thread is such a joke. The expectations placed upon Barca and Messi on this forum are so high no team or player can ever reach them.

One person on here praised Ronaldo in his win yesterday for his defensive play when every game Messi plays he is better defensively then Ronaldo (one of the worst defensive players ever) and yesterday Ronaldo produced 0/0 goals and assists and Messi had 1/1 goals and assists.

To come on a forum and use a game where a player set up the go ahead goal and scored the winning goal and use that as his "bad game" is just going full retard.

Not to mention not one person has even hinted that Sociedad is actually a good team with some very good players on it. But I'm sure 90% of the posters on here have never even watched them play. From some of the comments on here you would have thought he was playing against a bunch of scrubs.

People point to the chances he missed and use that against him but why don't you try using your brain and realize that he sets up so many chances for himself and his team that he can miss a couple golden opportunities in a game and end up as man of the match with a goal and assist.

It's not easy to set up these opportunities over and over again especially with a makeshift team that has probably never taken the pitch together and no Xavi or Iniesta to help him.

It's hilarious, before it was Messi only produces his great stats because of Xavi and Iniesta and now he plays without either one of them or Busquets for that matter and he sets up so many golden opportunities for himself and his teammates that he misses a few and he's peaking while still scoring a goal and an assist.

I mean the logic is so flawed it's a joke especially when you compare his performances to some of the other players people on here praise.

I just can't believe this thread was even made for a player who may lead Europe in goals and assists this year and this is his "bad year" or year he's peaked. If you can't understand that Messi will keep his goal scoring at the same incredible level it's been at and then also add to that the most assists in Europe then I don't know what to tell you.

Please tell me what more this player needs to do to impress you or see that he hasn't peaked? I mean what in the world do you expect from him?

Good post again dnmac4, exactly what I think, couldnt say it better cheers cheers

When I read some of the stuff I just :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Messi has been at such a high level physically though, its only normal that he gets tired.... its amazing for the 2 of them actually, MEssi and Ronaldo, having been playing for so many years now pretty much undiscrupted, and I hope more than anything it stays that way Afro

Swagg_Johnson wrote:I think Barca should just rest him for the rest of the season, he looks tired :coffee:

Dream on Real fans Laughing
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Post by DuringTheWar Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:03 pm

Vapotrini wrote:People are gonna say that this is knee jerk, and hopefully it is, but I really don't know anymore...

Seeing as I'm a self confessed, full fledged Diego fan boy, maybe this may be hard to read but I want to know. Can there be any truth to this...

The training is better. Their diets are better. The tactics are superior. Their opposition and pitches are better. I've heard it all before, but my eyes don't lie... I've seen this all before.

For the past few weeks/months I've been seeing something that sits poorly with me, Messi being human. Missing stuff that even I in my little imaginary world, wouldn't miss. I first said it was a one off, but one off's don't keep on happening do they? It's not (now weekly) one offs, it's simply Messi being human. He CANNOT KEEP IT UP!

I like everyone else here keeps thinking, "wow, this guy is only 24 years old... surely the greatest to play at that age. Just imagine him at 27!" Well thinking about it, I would bet just about anything in the world that he won't be any where remotely as good as he is now when he's 27. How could he be though??? Football and training have evolved to such a level that these guys are way beyond their predecessors. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but generally the norm is going to be a far earlier peak from yesteryear. It's reaching a point now where I'm asking myself if Messi at just 24 years old is actually regressing? Forget the penalties. When last has he even attempted to chip a keeper? You may say well, that not a big deal, but think about it. If you're a keeper and you know there's no chip coming, you can storm out with confidence and basically know that it's just 50/50 from there. Left or right. Such a huge weapon, why has he forsaken it? Makes him a whole lot more predictable. This is a tool in his arsenal that he should be using more with his now vast experience, however it's now non-existent in his game. Puzzling.

On to Dribbling: It may just be me, but in the past I can't recall ever seeing him lose the ball as much as he does now. He's dribbling less which is natural, cause he's getting older and using his smarts, picking when to dribble, which is all great... but the problem is (in my eyes), he's actually losing the ball more now - dribbling less, losing the ball more. No matter how you wanna justify or spin that, it's not good. Put another way, what does Messi do today that he didn't do as well or better in at least 2 years gone by? Be honest with yourselves. What is he better at? I'll give him the killer through ball but that was always going to come. Every single player gets better at passing, that's given. In my mind, he doesn't do anything other than that better. One could argue it's quite the contrary. But wait, isn't he supposed to peak at 25? Isn't he supposed to be getting clearly better? Sorry to say, from where I'm sitting, he's clearly not getting better. And don't for a second bring up stats cause all I've been seeing lately is his teammates give up GREAT opportunities to feed him the ball. Frustratingly so! Stats won't and can't show that. Stats are not going to tell the whole story the same way they didn't when CR7 broke the la liga record last year. It's shameful at times the way these guys are spoon fed.

From where I'm sitting, the simple truth is that Messi is an early bloomer. Hell, all footballers are nowadays with the training that now exists. This is why I always say, don't judge him now... judge him after he hangs up his boots. Things are entirely different now from days gone by, a player now at 24 is "probably" equivolant to a player close to 30, two decades ago. That's why comparing Messi to Pele, Platini, Zico, Maradona, insert name here, when they were 24, is utterly ridiculous. It doesn't work that way. It can't, these players simply can't continue excelling. They're gonna hit their peak a lot earlier.

Wish I was wrong but I know in my heart, we've already seen the best of Messi. A little disappointing considering his age, but training nowadays is too rigorous for these guys to keep these ridiculous levels up. No matter the player, no matter the generation, you get a really SPECIAL 4-5 years of pure genius... after that, it's more reputation than anything else that will carry you. Hope I'm wrong but deep down inside, I know I'm absolutely right. Seen it too many times before... and I'll bet quite a bit that it's happening here right before my very eyes, yet again. Sadly enough...

Hes been phenomenal for 3 years in a row, i can tell you not many players have been able to substain such form for that long without interruption in history. He can have a (relitavely) poor year now, its totally understandable for any player in his position, but it doesnt mean he has peaked or he will now regress. What might happen is he may adapt his game with the experience he has now picked up, possibly he might adapt his game to become an even more influential player for his team.

Also, the season is not even finished, all the really important games are yet to come, this could yet be another glorious season for messi
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Post by che Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:19 pm

messi is clearly declining, he's getting slow and fat, next ronaldinho, not worthy of barcelona's high standard

can we have him?
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Post by JAY-Z Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:18 am

He really needs to get some rest.
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Post by FennecFox7 Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:58 am

Well that's what happens when you run a player to the ground..
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Post by shamr9pato Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:58 am

also getting fat

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Post by BiasedMilanFan3 Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:11 am

jibers wrote:Simple reason really, changed his diet from Burger King to McDonalds. He needs to change it back. You can't go from a whooper to a big mac and not expect a drop in performance tbh.

+1
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Post by Guest Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:17 am

This thread confuses the shit out of me

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Post by cyberman Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:38 am

Peaked? You expected messi to get better? Lol he's already proclaimed as the best ever...at twenty four. I'm pretty sure that's the talent ceiling for any player ever...

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Post by free_cat Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:46 am

I'm fine if he has peaked. He will probably score around 55 goals and assist like 25 times this season. He doesn't need to go further than that. Just keep it up 8 years and I'll be more than happy.
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Post by Giovanni10 Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:52 am

If Messi hasn't peaked yet, then g*d help the poor reputation in la liga for bad defending Laughing
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Post by LeBéninois Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:03 pm

Vaporini is right on some points :

Nowadays players hit their peak earlier : True

But where is the difference ?? i mean zidane at 27 was at his peak but before that so let's say 7 years during, he was a good talent but that's all. no a legend right ? same goes for other legend except pélé maybe, their all hit their peak at 25 and more and then their legend was done for the rest of their career

Messi at 27 will have already hit his peak, clearly ( a bit like ronaldinho ). But i'm pretty sure that he will be better for the 27 to 30's than the other greats was between their 20's to 25-27 ( let's say) which is the moment their hit their hit.

No problem there. You Can't choose when you are going to hit your peak
And Not being at his peak, doesn't mean NOt being excellent . Yes defenders will be used to his game but he is playing at barca , a club that has a great game philosophy, so it won't be that bad. And i also believe he will still be hungry (winning a WC at least ) so...

He will slow down but will still produce amazing performances too. It depends of the new barca that is coming too

But YEAH HE need a rest but can't take it now ...
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Post by Lord Awesome Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:06 pm

True Messi will become a full fledged AM at the end. Might even go CM at points. Passing and Vision are one of his best qualities and thos qualities are vital in any Center Midfeilder position.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:08 am

cyberman wrote:Peaked? You expected messi to get better? Lol he's already proclaimed as the best ever...at twenty four. I'm pretty sure that's the talent ceiling for any player ever...


20 year old maradona

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOhfyoiOds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyh3NuRD1xA

I would rather watch a 20 year old maradona than a 24 year old messi. His touch, his passing, is something beyond messi no matter whether messi has peaked or not. As for maradona at his peak, i dont even know how best to describe it, it didnt last long enough for my liking, but it was footballs everest, no individual player ive seen has even come anywhere close to diego when he was at his very best, on the pitch he was simply invincible, he had the answer to solve every single problem a defender tried to give him, he could beat 4 players by dribbling, or take 1 simple touch to take them all out

i hope messi has not peaked, i think he can still improve to become even better than he already is, but if his is the talent ceiling for any player ever, then maradona didnt even have a ceiling
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