"El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:57 pm

Well, while I agree you should flood the box when the ball is in a wide position (not because you have to cross the ball, you could even dribble) simply because the distraction it gives to the center defenders and prevents them just waiting for you to come.

However, we cant control the midfield by outnumbering the opponant and then at the same time having numbers in the box, its one or the other. The players who control the play and possession are the same players who ideally could get into the box, a deep midfield runner. However, Iniesta really isnt this player and Xavi most of the times isnt either. Occasionally he gets in there, but its a rarity.

I do think though we need to do a better job when the winger or fullback has actually beat the marker on the outside. Because when this happens, there is no excuse for the other winger, Messi and a midfielder to get in there. But often, they arent, they all wait for a pullback to shoot.

But in normal play, when the ball is passed out to Alexis, people will just never be in there for that, they are behind, waiting for the circulation. And really, asking an Iniesta or Xavi to do differently makes no sense.


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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by danyjr on Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:51 pm

I agree, with Xavi and Iniesta this doesn't really make sense and it isn't the most efficient way to play these players.

I look at Juventus though, a team which I tactically admire, and not only they play with two strikers, they also got midfielders such as Vidal and Marchisio who are perfectly capable of scoring. Their idea of 'opening/widening up the pitch' is actually something that poses a big threat to the opposition. With Barcelona, you pretty much know it is just a decoy and teams don't fall for it any more.

I wonder what Guardiola had in mind when he started introducing 3-4-3.

PS: My idea of Juve is based on the handful of matches I'd watched (last year).

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:04 pm

Thats true, but its also true Juve have little intrest in total domination of the game.

Vidal and Marchisio while great players, noone will ever mistake for astute midfield technicans. They really arent afraid to get into goalscoring positions.

With Pirlo and Bonnuci, they can play directly and quickly into the attacking third. Because they have 2 strikers and no wingers, the fullbacks (in a back 4) are much more likely to provide defensive cover for the 2 centerbacks (no coach really wants to see 2 v 2 at the back) and thus leaving the wingbacks to the wingers, which drags the entire team back and gives Pirlo/back 3 time with the ball to play directly.

Its true, the width they get (even without wingers) is a threat to teams because they are very capable of getting 4 players into the box.

But with Barca, it just cant happen. No matter who we put out on the pitch, no team is going start focusing on closing down the wings at the risk of giving more space in the middle for the likes of Messi.

I cant predict Guardiola, but I think his use of the 343 was purely to get Cesc in the team. It forced our wingers to play really wide, but again, no team is really that concerned by Pedro and Alexis out wide when you have Messi in the middle. Most smart teams will still defend ultra narrow. Especially as with the 343 you dont get an overlap and its 100% about if the winger can beat his fullback, and those fullbacks also know crossing isnt an option for the wingers because it really isnt likely to work with the players we have.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by danyjr on Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:40 am

This is maybe not the place to speak about it...

...but I think vs. Sevilla we saw a couple of times where Neymar beat his man and he was waiting for Messi to get inside the box but the Argentine decided to stay behind the box. It is confusing for wingers and, more importantly, it ends up in losing a goalscoring opportunity. Messi must play as a '9' when it would make sense.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:32 pm

Yep, agree. I saw it too.

One time especially we had a "counter attack" with Neymar in acres of space running at near full speed. Messi didnt once move into a goalscoring position, he didnt get above a fast jog and in the end it left Neymar with nothing in front and the counter stalled in a hurry.

The point of Messi playing "false 9" is surely that when the ball is in defence/midfield he is a midfielder, and when the ball is in the final third he is a striker.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by Stejo on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:31 pm

Alexis is so painful to watch week in and week out. Couldn't help but wonder again today during the Ajax game how much better the team would be if there was someone else in his place. And how much better off he himself would be too for that matter.

It's not that he's a bad player; he isn't. He just doesn't have any of the qualities required for this team. He doesn't have the vision nor the technique, can't pass or control the ball properly. And Messi seems to be getting pretty fed up by his inability to play a simple one-two.

Real shame, he could be ripping defenses apart with his speed and power in any other more direct playing team. And we could have, dunno, Mata, Ozil or someone of the likes feeding Messi instead of frustrating him.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:46 pm

If it was Ozil or Mata instead of Alexis, Messi doesnt score his 2nd goal today.

Alexis ran full speed right through the heart of the defence on that counter attack, a run done unselfishly simply to force the defender to respect it and therefore give Messi the space he needed to collect the pass.

Your Mata's and Ozil, dont have the mentality, or even the speed, to make such a run.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by danyjr on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:53 pm

The problem is that Messi doesn't even make 'number 9 runs' any more so Mata and Özil would both be useless.

On the Ajax match, I think Sánchez actually had one of his better days today. Good work rate both offensively and defensively, pressed, came back to defend and made space for others in attack. His touch was poor on a few occasions and failed to see a couple of passes early but that's about it. He is growing.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by Stejo on Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:11 pm

He indirectly helped make 1 goal, directly ruined like 5 other goals tho. So many times he just couldn't follow Messi's train of thought mentally or technically. I just don't think he's worth the spot for what he brings to the table as it stands now.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:30 pm

No, he didnt ruin 5 goals. Some examples would be nice?

He didnt have a great game with the ball to say the least, however, he was making runs and defending.

Funny enough two things Ozil and Mata suck at. Replacing either for Alexis would be pointless, they would be wasted and our front 3 we would all look like midfielders all passing and noone running.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by Stejo on Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:46 am

Can't name exact minutes the incidents happened, ain't got the game on video, but pretty much every time Messi was trying to do a quick exchange with him, he failed.

Anyway, don't get so hang up on the names I said on the fly. My idea of the position is a speedy left footed 10 that cuts inside to open up space for Alves and has mainly great vision so he can link up with Messi and Alves while possessing a decent goal scoring ability so he can't be ignored on his own. Mata and Ozil came to mind so I mentioned them, could be any number of players tho.

The thing with Alexis is that he's a one trick pony. All he can do is run up and down. And gotta hand it to him, he's putting quite a bit of effort in it. But he's not really doing anything more than Pedro would. And Pedro is a great finisher at least and probably a tad smarter too. And it's not like he's a powerhouse of speed and strength like CR or Bale at that either. He's just more athletic than the rest of the squad. Can't really claim a first team spot in Barca just by being fast and hard working.

There's some crucial qualities you gotta have to fit into the team. Vision, technique, passing and good old fashioned football smarts to name a few. Poor guy has none of the above.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:55 am

Well Alexis has started the season very well and even in games like today (where he was below par with the ball) he still found a way to have an impact.

I dont know who we could get to replace him who gives us what he does (defending, runs off the ball) plus more. All the names who give us more skill or whatever, lack the defending or movement off the ball. And with a dribbler in Neymar in one side, Messi dribbling in the middle, another dribbler makes no sense to me. Its not what we need.

And you speak about someone cutting in from the right, but many times today (and this season) Messi and Alexis have changed positions during the course of the match. Dani Alves put in a great cross Alexis just couldnt reach in a play like this, so that option is already there.

Pedro may be a great finisher, but he is hardly in the position to finish them. Why, you can tell me maybe because I have no idea.

Either way, its not important, without question he has been better than Pedro this season so far.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by Stejo on Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:32 am

Bottom line here is that he's playing a role very similar to Pedro with a bit more speed but none of the rest of Pedro's qualities. Pedro has a very good understanding with the rest of the squad, can play both sides of the pitch, can man mark pretty damn good, he's ambidextrous and most importantly he came for free, already had him.

Alexis seems like the odd man out every time the team is doing some crazy link up play, can't hit a barn door from the inside, uses his left foot exclusively to climb the stairs and we paid a boatload of money for him. Just doesn't make any sense, you know?

He might've been a bit better than Pedro this season, but Pedro's a distinctly average homegrown, hardworking position filler. We didn't have to make any italian team rich in the process of acquiring him.

Anyway, maybe it's just me that wants more. Maybe a traditional winger who cant score, pass, dribble or cross(!) was exactly what we needed for that spot. He can run and defend. Hey, Dani isn't getting any younger after all.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:43 am

@Stejo wrote:Alexis is so painful to watch week in and week out. Couldn't help but wonder again today during the Ajax game how much better the team would be if there was someone else in his place. And how much better off he himself would be too for that matter.

It's not that he's a bad player; he isn't. He just doesn't have any of the qualities required for this team. He doesn't have the vision nor the technique, can't pass or control the ball properly. And Messi seems to be getting pretty fed up by his inability to play a simple one-two.

Real shame, he could be ripping defenses apart with his speed and power in any other more direct playing team. And we could have, dunno, Mata, Ozil or someone of the likes feeding Messi instead of frustrating him.
Painful to watch week in and week out? He may have had a quiet game today but there's no denying that these past couple of games for Barca are the best in his career. I also think his passing is fine for us. His finishing and sometimes predictability is another story.

I was surprised that when Pedro came on for Nerman Pedro played on the left and Alexis stayed on the right. I personally would've switched them.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:00 am

Seems like Tata likes him on the right, probably because he and Messi swap positions and its seemless. Messi right, Alexis middle, whoever on the left.

Messi cant swap positions with say Pedro, because Pedro cant go in the middle and Messi cant play out on the left.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by eelir on Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:21 am

@Stejo wrote:Bottom line here is that he's playing a role very similar to Pedro with a bit more speed but none of the rest of Pedro's qualities. Pedro has a very good understanding with the rest of the squad, can play both sides of the pitch, can man mark pretty damn good, he's ambidextrous and most importantly he came for free, already had him.

Alexis seems like the odd man out every time the team is doing some crazy link up play, can't hit a barn door from the inside, uses his left foot exclusively to climb the stairs and we paid a boatload of money for him. Just doesn't make any sense, you know?

He might've been a bit better than Pedro this season, but Pedro's a distinctly average homegrown, hardworking position filler. We didn't have to make any italian team rich in the process of acquiring him.

Anyway, maybe it's just me that wants more. Maybe a traditional winger who cant score, pass, dribble or cross(!) was exactly what we needed for that spot. He can run and defend. Hey, Dani isn't getting any younger after all.
free, is that you? Razz

Jokes aside, he has been pretty good this season. I did not manage to watch this game. I agree with Barilete that his finishing is not at the level.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by CBarca on Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:56 am

I've actually liked Alexis most of the time this season. Yeah there have been :facepalm: moments and sometimes he still looks like the player I wanted sold last year, but his performance has improved quite a lot since he's gotten here and I certainly prefer him to Pedro at this point.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by free_cat on Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:37 am

When Bojan Krkick outperforms him by far, you know the nino pesadikka is back.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by billy_gr on Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:00 am

give the guy a break. one meh perfoemance and everyone is out to get him?
he's been more than deccent so far for us and as Dani said, even in this game he managed to have impact
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by BarcaLearning on Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:26 am

It also could be ever since Neymar came, we expectations have gone even higher from the others Smile Villa, Cesc, Sanchez, Pedro all are very good, but not as good as we would like consistently dangerous and able to interact and be effective together with Messi.

Lets not forget at any other clubs these players are automatic started and probably stars.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by The Franchise on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:05 am

@Stejo wrote:Bottom line here is that he's playing a role very similar to Pedro with a bit more speed but none of the rest of Pedro's qualities. Pedro has a very good understanding with the rest of the squad, can play both sides of the pitch, can man mark pretty damn good, he's ambidextrous and most importantly he came for free, already had him.

Alexis seems like the odd man out every time the team is doing some crazy link up play, can't hit a barn door from the inside, uses his left foot exclusively to climb the stairs and we paid a boatload of money for him. Just doesn't make any sense, you know?

He might've been a bit better than Pedro this season, but Pedro's a distinctly average homegrown, hardworking position filler. We didn't have to make any italian team rich in the process of acquiring him.

Anyway, maybe it's just me that wants more. Maybe a traditional winger who cant score, pass, dribble or cross(!) was exactly what we needed for that spot. He can run and defend. Hey, Dani isn't getting any younger after all.
All that stuff you said about Pedro, we can argue if its true or false, it could 100% be correct, but it doesnt matter when he is being outplayed by Alexis.

And what does Pedro being free and Alexis costing money matter at this stage? We already paid, you know to forget about it stop allowing it to influence what your watching. It makes no difference who costs what, the importance is what is happening on the pitch.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by free_cat on Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:30 am

I don't see how Malexis made an impact. He did nothing well. On the other hand Bojan or Pedro did much more in limited amount of ball. It is also stretching it saying that Malexis has outplayed Pedro this season. Malexis has only been great in the same game where Pedro was man of the match (after messi) vs Levante. The rest have been average performances from both and yesterday Pedro did more in 20 minutes than Alexis. Even the best Alexis we've seen in these two past years is not good enoguh for Barca because of his lack of left foot, awful finishing and huge amount of lost balls. Best thing would have been to sell him.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by billy_gr on Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:45 pm

what did Pedro do yesterday?
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by matpol on Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:34 pm

Pedro lost ball which resulted in Ajax play that ended in penalty after Mascherano foul.

As for Mehdro vs Malexis debate - both sucks, Pedro is homegrown so will stay after this season, in normal club both would be sold this summer.
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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:52 pm

@free_cat wrote:I don't see how Malexis made an impact. He did nothing well.
@The Franchise wrote:If it was Ozil or Mata instead of Alexis, Messi doesnt score his 2nd goal today.

Alexis ran full speed right through the heart of the defence on that counter attack, a run done unselfishly simply to force the defender to respect it and therefore give Messi the space he needed to collect the pass.
As for the rest of the post Free 9 of every 10 Barca fans will tell you Alexis has clearly outperformed Pedro this season. The fact that you can't see it is worrying.

I like Alexis this season, he had one off game, but I wouldn't sell him. With LioNer up top we need a runner in the team, and Pedro has not shown he can be that player for us in the past 2 years.

@Stejo wrote:Bottom line here is that he's playing a role very similar to Pedro with a bit more speed but none of the rest of Pedro's qualities. Pedro has a very good understanding with the rest of the squad, can play both sides of the pitch, can man mark pretty damn good, he's ambidextrous and most importantly he came for free, already had him.
Alexis has all those things

Also the "Alexis cost us 30m whereas Pedro was free" argument is nonsensical. We already spent the money. It's sunk cost. Shouldn't affect our future decisions.

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Re: "El Niño Maravilla": Alexis Sanchez

Post by eelir on Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:38 pm

I'd take Alexis of this season to Pedro of this season any time. As i said i did not watch the Ajax game, but he was clearly outperforming Pedro this season. But, I hope he can keep it up though.
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