the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:24 pm

Still dont like D-Will? Boy is a machine.

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:13 pm

Swagg_Johnson wrote:
@Crimson wrote:Kobe > All

28.8 ppg more than anyone in the NBA this season


Yes.. Kobe > All..... At scoring this season Razz

Well Kobe is the best player in the NBA and has been for quite some time....

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:14 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Still dont like D-Will? Boy is a machine.

Poor Mans Chris Paul TBF Very Happy

That pull up jumper irks me.....I know it's good but it dosen't look right.

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:17 pm

Better than Chris Paul, yeah, I said it.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:25 pm

Now that's just an impulsive statement if I ever saw one. Razz


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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:31 pm

No, its not.

Williams has dominated him for years everytime they met.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:46 pm

Lol, Rose has dominated every PG he's played against.

All Williams has over Paul is size.....Paul is a better shooter, better decision maker, better ballhandler....down to every last intangible Paul beasts him.Granted Williams size is a huge advantage.........but still I ain't seeing it.

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Zealous on Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:00 pm






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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:53 pm

@Le Samourai wrote:Lol, Rose has dominated every PG he's played against.

All Williams has over Paul is size.....Paul is a better shooter, better decision maker, better ballhandler....down to every last intangible Paul beasts him.Granted Williams size is a huge advantage.........but still I ain't seeing it.

No, Rose has outscored them while the Bulls as a team has done a great job slowing his opponants..that doesnt equal dominating all PG's.

Williams is a far superior, efficent and varied scorer, almost as good a passer, WAAAAY better finisher around the rim, can shoot just as well, better defender and has a post game.

Dont see how Paul is a better ball handler at all, barely any difference.

He can also play with or without the ball effectively and gaurd shooting gaurds.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:24 pm

No, Deron has outscored Paul while the Jerry Sloan's Jazz as a team has done a great job slowing his opponants..that doesnt dominating him.

Jerry's Defense was tailor made for Paul TBF not to mention supporting cast.

Barely an difference? Deron averages almost a turnover more per game lol.This season that's gone up to 2.

Paul struggles against big guards who can use their strength but defensively it's a toss up.Better rebounder....averages a steal more per game.Williams is simply more versatile.

I could care less if he can play without the ball...who else would you want with the ball if Paul is on your team?

Paul is a much better passer than you give him credit for....and as I said... intangibles just kill this argument.

You can make a case for Deron in a certain system.....but as a pure PG....no way.


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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:24 pm

Except, I watched the games and saw something very different. For one, Deron didnt only outscore him, he set up his teammates more....secondly, the Jazz were never a great defensive team. Williams physical brand of defence had an impact on Paul...what did Rose do to slow his opponants?

LOL Turnovers...he plays for the Nets..of course he is going to turn it over.

And how is that relevant..is every turnover due to an errant pass? I dont get why people relate turnovers to passing...I guess Kidd and Rubio are bad passer too?

Defensively, its not a toss up...Williams can gaurd 2's..who can Paul guard? He got quick hands, but actual defensive skill its not very close.

Steals.....so Iverson was an elite defender too? Another false link.

The fact Williams can play without the ball too makes him versitile, he could play with guys like say, Lebron, and still be effective...Paul..less so.

Paul isnt a much better passer, thats hyperbole, he is slightly better.

System...where was system was Williams was blowing by Paul all those years? If anything, Jazz system hindered Williams because he didnt have the ball in his hands as much as Paul did in his free wheeling offence with the Hornets and now Clippers.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:16 pm

I watched a couple.....the Jazz were a pretty good defensive team but what stood out to me was a question of style.Unlike most of the other teams they forced Paul inside then crowded him, when I say forced I mean it.When he's in the lane and everyone's bigger than him, there's nothing he can do.

Turnover was not used as a measure of passing by me, it was used as a measure of how well you take care of the ball.Paul is the best in the leauge at that hands down and Deron is far behind him.

I take back the toss up...because I agree on the versatility thing, but steals are a part of defese too...and Paul is elite there.As is rebounding, Paul is better there.Paul is unlucky he has the shortest arms in the leauge, because apart from that...I don't see a huge difference defensively between him and Rondo..perhaps the best PG defender in the league.

Why would Paul be off Ball? You're telling me you prefer Lebron with the ball in his hands rather than Paul?.Even so...Lebron is a freak, he literally the only player in the league you can say that for....other than perhaps Pierce and Kobe.But versatility is noted.

Paul ain't ever gonna guard Deron, Deron is as heavy as Melo I don't see how Paul can be expected to guard him one on one......but PG defense dosen't mean much as long as you crowd the lane.He'll be fine at contesting,, and Deron's post game ain't all that.




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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:28 pm

Yeah...Okur and Boozer..great defensive presences they are.

If you say Paul takes care of the ball better than say that, dont say he turns it over less and therefore makes him a superior passer. Paul is a slightly better passer, but thats not the reason why.

Steals are nothing...he causes 2 turnovers a game..pointless when you get scored on, blowed by or are out of position for many other possessions in the game. As I said, Iverson lead the league in steals.

Paul grabs more rebounds...he gets alot of long rebounds...okay...its hardly a big thing he look for when discussing point gaurds.

No, im not saying I want Paul off the ball with Lebron...but having more versatility is having more versatility and its a factor.

Paul is a point, Williams is a point...if Williams can guard him then Paul should be able to..but he cant..

Lebron is as heavy as Gasol, but Kobe will switch on him if need be.

Williams might not be elite in the post, but he has game...Paul has none.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:50 pm

You said there's barely any difference in ball handling.....that's what I was referring to.There's a huge difference in ball handling and taking care of the ball.I doub't there's anyone with a better TO/A ratio despite him playing constantly free flowing offensive basketball.

You're acting as if Deron just murders Paul when they play each other.....Paul is a very good defender I don't even know how you can deny that.You're talking like if the guy is just out there gambling letting every PG in the league abuse him.That's just not true man, he's one of the best PG defenders in the league...most will tell you that.Even if it's just based on endeavor alone.

Take nothing away.....I've seen Deron shut down Brandon Roy in full flight...so I get where you're coming from.Iverson pretty good IMO, at least when i watched him which was mostly in the playoffs......even so Iverson expounded so much energy on offense, i dunno if he ever had a chance at being elite defensively.

Paul has a post game...that's fine.Let him start using it like Billups then he'll get some props.







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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by white_star on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:54 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@Le Samourai wrote:Lol, Rose has dominated every PG he's played against.

All Williams has over Paul is size.....Paul is a better shooter, better decision maker, better ballhandler....down to every last intangible Paul beasts him.Granted Williams size is a huge advantage.........but still I ain't seeing it.

No, Rose has outscored them while the Bulls as a team has done a great job slowing his opponants..that doesnt equal dominating all PG's.

Williams is a far superior, efficent and varied scorer, almost as good a passer, WAAAAY better finisher around the rim, can shoot just as well, better defender and has a post game.

Dont see how Paul is a better ball handler at all, barely any difference.

He can also play with or without the ball effectively and gaurd shooting gaurds.

What? Obvious Rose hate is obvious lol!

Rose had dominated every point guard he's played last season and this season. look at yesterday's game how he carried the team all game against a good defensive sixers team. They tried everything to contain him and he still scored 35. Best point guard in the NBA.

Celtics beating the Knicks was crazy game. Rondo showed Lin what it's all about. I am happy the whole Lin thing is dying down.

Great to see the lakers play so well and beating the Heat.

Very good Sunday basketball yesterday.

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:01 pm

@white_star wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@Le Samourai wrote:Lol, Rose has dominated every PG he's played against.

All Williams has over Paul is size.....Paul is a better shooter, better decision maker, better ballhandler....down to every last intangible Paul beasts him.Granted Williams size is a huge advantage.........but still I ain't seeing it.

No, Rose has outscored them while the Bulls as a team has done a great job slowing his opponants..that doesnt equal dominating all PG's.

Williams is a far superior, efficent and varied scorer, almost as good a passer, WAAAAY better finisher around the rim, can shoot just as well, better defender and has a post game.

Dont see how Paul is a better ball handler at all, barely any difference.

He can also play with or without the ball effectively and gaurd shooting gaurds.

What? Obvious Rose hate is obvious lol!

Rose had dominated every point guard he's played last season and this season. look at yesterday's game how he carried the team all game against a good defensive sixers team. They tried everything to contain him and he still scored 35. Best point guard in the NBA.

Celtics beating the Knicks was crazy game. Rondo showed Lin what it's all about. I am happy the whole Lin thing is dying down.

Great to see the lakers play so well and beating the Heat.

Very good Sunday basketball yesterday.

Rose fanboy is obvious.

Rose is 3rd best..at most. Get over it lol
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:07 pm

And ball Handelling isnt reflected in turnovers either....Williams shows his handle as he constantly blows by his man despite not being super fast.



Im not acting like anything, im just stating what im seeing.

Didnt see Paul is a bad defender, but steals arent the way to prove he is a good one. Fact is, hes a good point defender, but no, he isnt as good as Williams like your aying.


Iverson was a terrible defender, no idea what your thinking about. He gambled constantly and if his gamble failed (which it did just as much as he came up with the steal, his team had to cover up that mistake). Paul doesnt gamble like that, but the point is, dont overrate the value of steals.

Deron dont have to use his postgame like Billups, he is already better than he ever was so just stop right there. The point is, he can play in the post and Paul cannot.






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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by white_star on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Nope I can't agree sorry!

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:27 pm

Dani i dunno man.....something just bothering me about it.I've seen Fisher shut down Deron in the playoffs lol.........you know how you always say "does not compute" this just ain't computing.

Paul is essentially Rondo with short arms.....he's a good , very good defender.Agree to disagree, but Williams certainly isn't carrying anyone anywhere at the moment...we'll see what he does in the future.

Paul is an amazing competitor, I'm pretty sure he'll go further than Dwill, regardless of talent and who's better.Lebron is better than Kobe no 2 ways about it so whatever.

Also, hating on Iverson is a crime :coffee: . I really don't know what Iverson could do lol.Play man defense and watch his inferior man defenders get scored on.Exaggerating , but A.I is A.I lol....whatever....if he can get that team to the finals he's doing something right.

Let Deron do something before he's better than Chauncey ever was lol......not even a championship.....just not destroyed by Fisher and Jordan Farmar.




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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:04 pm

No you have not, I have not ever seen that.

Is this getting owned by Fisher? gtfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a4KbACGaGw

Williams isnt carrying Nets...I mean seriously...your knocking him based on that? He proven himself already when he has a decent team, with the Jazz.

Noone hating on Iverson, he was an elite player, top 3 in his heyday...but he was a terrible defensively and thats a fact.

And im sorry, what has CP3 done so great? In fact, Williams has gotten his teams further than CP3 if you want to go there.

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by LeSwagg James on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:17 pm

I agree with Samourai that CP3 > Williams .. But I think Rose > Both lol

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:41 pm

One play? you can do better than that lol.I watched both series in 09 and 10 and I swear on my life in game 6 this boy was getting abused by Fisher.Fisher was just murdering....now i dunno If Fisher was an elite defender back then at age 33 but that just was just funny.

Lol Chris Paul was throwing one of the best PG defenders in history around like a child in 08.....almost miraculousy carriedt Peja(far gone),Tyson Chandler and David West and Posey past the Spurs lol.

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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by dmize on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:21 pm

1a. CP3
1b. Deron
2. Rose
3. Rondo

CP3 and Deron are pretty inseparable for me. I'd take CP3 if I had to choose though, especially looking at this season. I know Deron doesn't have much to work with in NJ, but CP3 is averaging damn near 4 assists per TO. And he's got one of the higher PER's of his career I believe.


Last edited by dmize on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:23 pm

2008 vs Lakers, games not in order.

14 points, 6 assists and Fisher played just 22 minutes, Farmer didnt play.

16 points 17 assists and Fisher played just 22 minutes and Farmer played 4 minutes.

23 points and 13 assists and Fisher played 28 minutes and Farmer again didnt play.

13 points and 9 assists and Fisher played 25 minutes and Farmer didnt play.

35 point and 9 assists and Fisher playd 28 minutes and Farmer played 4.

Williams turned it over a bit much in games he coincidentally won, and shot inffiecently in games he lost...but shut down...laughable assertion...even more laughable to suggest it was Fisher and Farmer who did it lol

CP3 was throwing who around in 08? Which best defender?

And carrying West and Chandler...talking like they scrubs loool please

Those two were combined better than Okur and Boozer easily.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:24 pm

@dmize wrote:1a. CP3
1b. Deron
2. Rose
3. Rondo

For the record, I dont have much of a problem with this ranking.

I think Deron and Paul are interchangable, different styles, but more or less as good as each other. I wouldnt blame anyone who edges one in the slight favor of the other.
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Re: the official Dwayne Wade >>> you thread

Post by Le Samourai on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:39 pm

Don't have much problem with it either lol....what are we fighting about? Laughing

Anyway...

2009 game 5 , the one I remember best..

4-12 , 6 assist , 4 turnovers.Fisher played 23 mins....guarded Deron for all 23.(more or less).Shannon brown had some trouble on him, but Fisher was locking him down.

All series give or take a couple moments of what you expect...Fisher was locking him down.

Paul was eating up J.Kidd...you don't remember? Had a nasty series

Game 1 : 35 and 10 assists
Game 2: 32 and 17assists
Game 3: 16 and 10 assists
Game 4:a deceptively great 16 and 7
Game 5:24, 15 assists 11 rebounds.

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