QPR v Liverpool

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Re: QPR v Liverpool

Post by Arquitescu on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:13 am

@poolsupporter wrote:I'm not going to quote the above posts as things just become too messy with this forum's implementation.

Thanks for the responses. I understand all the points of view put across, but I do remain skeptical of Kenny's managerial abilities.

@Arq: I have yet to see a consistent display of pass and move football by us. We've had the odd good game here and there, but for most part, our performances have been lackluster. People who have responded to me on Twitter, etc. have said "Oh, but we created soo many chances". Those stats are not the greatest as every cross that comes in from the likes of Downing or Adam is considered a chance, for example.

I completely agree that Rome wasn't built in a day. And please understand that I'm not stupid enough to have a knee-jerk reaction to one loss in a game that I didn't even watch in its entirety. What has led me to this train of thought has been the lack of improvement in our performances. (That is my opinion. Others may watch the game differently, but I truly believe there hasn't been much improvement in our play)

Unfortunately, Rafa is the manager I have watched the most and one could always see his mark in our plays to an extent. (Hard to explain what I'm trying to say here) But under Kenny we tend to look like a bunch of headless chickens up front. (That's not to say we're always like that, but for the most part)

I just wish there was some more encouragement from our performances. I understand we're a team that is a work in progress and hence the results don't phase me much, but the manner in which we've lost or drawn or even won multiple times this season has been discouraging.

When I mentioned the 'playing players out of position' comment above, I was talking about Henderson in particular. Constantly played on the right and he is ALWAYS anonymous when positioned there. Yet we constantly see him start there. He has proven a handful of times how he is more effective when played in a central role.

@DTTR - I agree with your points regarding the likes of Lucas and Gerrard not being there. However, it's hard to believe that I might be among the very few people who have found our performances to be very average.

So let me say this. I think Steve Clark has done a brilliant job with us defensively, regardless of the occurings of the match yesterday. We've all seen how good we've been in that respect all season long.

Our tactics and ideas going forward however have been terrible in my opinion. We definitely are not playing pass and move football and I'm certain of that fact. The lack of movement when we are on the pitch is my number 1 complaint each and every week.

Perhaps saying Kenny should be let go is a little extreme, but please understand that my frustrations are a result of the average performances and lack of improvement I've noticed throughout this season.


Some great points.

The chances created rise above even Adam's hollywood balls and Downings endless crosses. I cannot remember where I viewed the stats but they involved a bevy of chances created by Henderson, Gerrard, Suarez, Enrique and even Carroll. There was also a stat on chances created by through balls as if I can remember, was pretty impressive.

I completely understand your point and wouldn't dare insult your intelligence, along with the fact I am 100% in sync with your frustration. I mean my first page post was complete knee jerk.

I understand your point in Rafa, but we did have more quality then, than we did now as the players were more in tune with each other along with some of our lesser impressive signings wouldn't even succeed in Rafa's tactics.

I know about your Henderson positional frustration, and frankly, this angers me as well. Personally, my ideal solution would be a dual pivot with Henderson and Spearing but with Gerrard in a advanced position. But as we know it isn't as easy to place that as I get the feeling Kenny is still in tune with Henderson's success on the right side at Sunderland. But I agree on this I hope as much as you do that Kenny will address this. What I can say is, that being a press reader of Kenny's words, he has stated that he wants Henderson to first acquire the right side position as he will slowly shift him to a central position. I know what your thinking as you read this but this is the only source of hope I can provide for both of us. Only problem is of playing Henderson as CM, is that he is defensively very frail and does not track back enough along with how he leaves gaps when central. But we'll see how this progresses.

Steve Clark is one of our main men responsible for our defense but should he not also be responsible for our poor defense lately as well. I mean our players are making simple marking errors.

Positive side is that our defense is relatively great on defending against the ball on the ground. But do notice that we concede mostly threw set pieces and aerial threats. Which is something I am SURE that will be addressed. Its positive since its a more specified problem in defense than a whole.

I have to make one point though, since the Carling Cup win, I feel our team has improved in attack substantially. Don't take the Sunderland game into account as that exceptionally was just a bad game on a whole.

But taking the game against Arsenal, Everton and QPR, ask anyone here and they will all say that even in the 2 losses (Arsenal,QPR) we played some superb football and were relatively composed and cohesive within our final attack. Only problem is we need to finish the chances created. But the overall tactics going forward have marginally improved as especially against QPR which displayed some spectacular football. Which is why I am calm and cool despite the last 16 minute choking.

One thing I do feel anger about is why we don't play how we did last year as Kenny played his original pass and move (from his first stint) as this year I have to agree we are more static than we should be. Either he is going for a different approach for more possession but I can say with confidence that this has improved also since the CC match.

One more thing, I have noticed our team plays substantially better without Adam (a man I know you loath[and slowly so do I]) as the team is almost like a breath of fresh air without him and his awful defense and random algorithmic passing. So in essence, Gerrard and Henderson have played better since as especially the former who has thrived without the burden of the chubby scot adam. Downing showed against Stoke and QPR that he can be a force for us with his newly more free role which has given him more confidence and ability to calibrate on what he is better at.

In the end, most of my words are without much base but I guess you'll have to take my word for it. But what I can do is wait till the end of the season so we can both judge what has dwindled and what has improved upon. I know you want Kenny to succeed as much as I do, but I am confident that he will leave us with a good impression at the end of the season as I (or we) value your judgement and opinion greatly.





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Re: QPR v Liverpool

Post by Nishankly on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am

@poolsupporter wrote:

Our tactics and ideas going forward however have been terrible in my opinion. We definitely are not playing pass and move football and I'm certain of that fact. The lack of movement when we are on the pitch is my number 1 complaint each and every week.


Actually for the first 20 mins of the match. Gerrard, Kuyt and Suarez played amazing one touch football. Suarez got in behind the QPR defense a number of times and we did win like 10 corners in the first 15 mins.

But we couldn't make our chances count and let QPR in the game and then as usual we completely lost our pace and rhythm.

So the main problem is consistency.
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Re: QPR v Liverpool

Post by poolsupporter on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:57 am

@Arq -

The reason I mentioned Steve Clark is because I have noticed a major improvement in our defense since last year. I understand what you are trying to say, but let me put my point across this way:

This season we have been a team without CL football and without any of the ridiculous away trips that the EL brings. We've not played as much football as some of our competitors so the thought of us finishing in a similar position to last year saddens me.

With that said, I will admit we have played some good football every now and then. And mostly without Charlie Adam. But, we rotate players way too often. In the center we sometimes play with three players. The wings have seen no consistency either. Kuyt, Maxi, Suarez, Henderson, etc.

It's nearly the end of the season, and I feel Kenny is still not confident in what our best 11 is. I'd have hoped we would have had this down halfway into the season, but it just doesn't seem like we've made much progress towards nailing this down.

As I'm sure you can gather from my posts, my original stance is based on a number of things that I/all of us have noticed throughout the season. The question I've seen asked a lot is whether LFC fans would have been this patient had it been another manager. (I refuse to make comparisons b/w Roy and Kenny. That would be an insult)

Your statements are not baseless, btw. We all have opinions and gather information by watching games, interviews and reading. I respect all of you guys' perspectives on matters involving our club.

@Nishank - The lack of consistency is what frustrates me. It doesn't seem like the philosophy that Kenny is trying to stamp on the team. We seem to have one or two good games every couple of weeks and then we're back to the static football.

SO I'll end this by saying that I do believe we have a lot of potential to regain our CL spot. However, we need to start addressing certain issues in our game play as well as other areas.

If you still ask me whether Kenny is the man for the job, I'm still going to be clueless and unsure. As an LFC fan however, I will say that I hope he is the one to bring us back to where we belong.
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Re: QPR v Liverpool

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