Ze German Thread

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Thu May 10, 2012 2:48 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:BTW I'm still torn about the back four. I want one of Goodstuber or Hummels because of their playmaking, both would probably redundant. And I'm not sure of playing Mertesacker with either of them, rather have a quick partner, like Boateng or Höwedes...
Well, normally it would be most sensible to use the Badstuber-Boateng CB partnership as they play together at Bayern, but that leaves the RB side to Höwedes alone. Or Lahm goes there and Schmelzer tries his luck as LB... Hm. Why can't we clone Alaba and give that clone German citizenship?

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Thu May 10, 2012 2:53 pm

Yes, a few more kilometres to the West and we'd be fine. We should annex Austria again, if only for Alaba.
Too soon?

Anyway, I agree, simply because that would give us 3 defenders who play together at club level, Badstuber covers the "playmaking" CB Löw wants, and Boateng is the pacey one. Sure, Hummels might be "better" than Badstuber, though apparently Badstuber is mentally more solid, that's why he's had less gaffes with the NT, and Höwedes might be better than Boateng, but Boateng compliments Goodstuber better, and, again, chemistry with Lahm and Badstuber.

I still really really hope for Lahm at RB, let's give Schmelzer a shot, and we can still invert Höwedes or Boateng if need be, Boateng played a decent LB at the WC, so who cares. Would make room for Höwedes to start.

Though TBH I think either way is fine.

Höwedes Boateng Badstuber Lahm looks great, so does Boateng Höwedes Badstuber Lahm, or even Lahm Boateng Badstuber XY, there really is no one player who can make that back-four bad.

It's just... Decisions, decisions, decisions. Spoiled by choice.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Thu May 10, 2012 3:01 pm

Best thing about them - they are still so incredibly young except for Lahm. I think they will stay put for quite a while and just get better with experience.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Thu May 10, 2012 3:54 pm

And even Lahm and Mertesacker are still younger than me... Suspect

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by federichzoller on Thu May 17, 2012 5:29 pm

@rwo power wrote:By the way, did you see the new German kits? Home is so-so, but the new Away Kit is totally mehh. They scrapped the beautiful black and went back to the horrible green. I want to see my players on the field, why did it have to be camouflage green again?




On the other hand, the Away Kit of the German ladies for the 2011 World Cup is utter class:

eeew....that black and gold away kit was my all time favourite kit . The green kits totally awful Sad
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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Sun May 20, 2012 3:55 am

So, what does the club season tell us for the Euros?

Schweinsteiger missing a penalty and generally not really being back from injury is worrying to me, Kroos played a fine season, at least. Lahm had an almost perfect match tonight, even though Bayern lost.

Boateng is solid. Müller is GOAT, has always been, Gomez is tired out and will probably not be back to his best by the time of hte Euros, so it'll be Kloses show. Podolski is a god among men and in fine form.

Götze has yet to be seen, he was pretty good after returning from injury, but it's been a short time.

Reus is an absolute monster, but automatically slips on a banana peel whenever called up for the NT.

Neuer had a boss season, so did Badstuber. Hummels as well, but he never showed up for the NT so far.

All in all I'm satisfied with the NT players performance at club level, but they all lost in grudging matches now, Özil and Khedira got eliminated, the Bayern players just lost a final, the only ones arriving on high spirits should be the Dortmund players, and I'll include Reus with that.

You guys think our morale takes a hit from Bayerns Neverkusen-style season?

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Sun May 20, 2012 4:00 am

Well, they do have psychologists in the staff for a reason. I'm pretty sure they will transform the frustration of the Bayern players into the will to win the Euro at least.

And Neuer :bow:

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by dostoevsky on Sun May 20, 2012 4:08 am

I felt so sorry for Bastien, I wanted to run onto the field and give him a hug.

Spoiler:
Didn't stop me screaming "THAT'S WHAT IT WILL FEEL LIKE AT THE EUROS, BASTIEN!" when he missed.

/trollololol

I'm a bad person Sad
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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Sun May 20, 2012 4:13 am

Well, I was very impressed by Drogba who went to Schweinsteiger and hugged him, trying to comfort him. That's what I call being gracious in triumph :bow:

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by dostoevsky on Sun May 20, 2012 4:16 am

That was a very touching moment seeing Drogba comfort both Schweinsteiger and Robben, it would have been easy to simply be lost in the moment, however he really dedicated his time to the exercise, when some might have just given them a pat on the back and walked off. Drogba had Robben's head buried in his shoulder practically.
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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Sat May 26, 2012 11:02 pm

Okay, from that test match against Switzerland, I can draw several conclusions, which I will present now.

Preamble: I'm not too broken up, a team without the Bayern players was never going to defend all that well, and with Löw choosing to start with a 4-1-4-1 formation (basically) we were bound to concede. Also I do love Switzerland, so: haha.

Anyway, my points from the match:

1) Klose must always start, when fit. Dat runs and workrate :bow: - Gomez has his merits, but he can only dream from being such an asset to his teammates. I know Löw was probably going to do it anyway, but Klose must start.

2) F*ck Marcel Schmelzer!
Okay, let me elaborate: Schmelzer did not have a great game, but it would be unfair to single him out for that - they all had a horrible game. But Schmelzer offers almost nothing in defense, and his attacking play might be decent, but his greatest weakness isn't even him sucking, because I do believe he could improve.
But Lahm must play LB. We need Lahm to link up on the left flank of the pitch, for several reasons. First of all, it's the Podolski side, and he needs more service.
Secondly, Höwedes, but I'll come to that later.

3) Höwedes should probably play RB. I've always liked Höwedes and wanted him to come to the Euros, I was just doubting his form after his injuries, but he truly impressed me today, was probably Germanys best player, after all. Stood firm in defence, made runs I never expected from a primary CB, has pace, a good eye, good positioning and covers well.
Lahm should probably play LB because of that, simply because Höwedes rocked at RB.

4) Reus must come, and he must get minutes. I know Müller was missing and would have been great as well, but boy did Reus make the Germany attack more lively. I could criticize Götze, but TBF he was played way too deep and had too much build-up play to do. Götze isn't Kroos.
Reus played direct, he played smart, he was fast as hell and he did finish decently.

5) Pace will be our saving grace.
Our counter-attacks will function because we will outrun everyone. Schürrle, Reus, Özil, Müller, Klose all can be incredibly fast when at full speed, and the first 3 even have great acceleration.
They did look best when at full speed as well, and this will probably the way we beat defenses. No Bayern-like calm buildup, no, everybody open your pants and come out guns blazing. That sounded weirder than intended, but I'll leave it in.

6) We will be fine.
With the Bayern block arriving, we will instantly stabilize our defence (Lahm and Badstuber as sure starters, Schweinsteiger as the man who just pops up everywhere. Boateng might start too, he will at least be a very good backup).
Müller will be the direct threat that Schürrle sometimes isn't. Kroos can be an asset basically everywhere.

7) F*ck yeah Bender twins!
F*ck yeah.
They must both come. As Khedira-backup as well as FB-Backup.
Don't even take Schmelzer or any other scrub FB, take Lahm and Höwedes, and have Boateng and the Benders as backups. Boom.

8 ) My shitlist, who to cut:
- Wiese, f*ck that guy.
- Cacau, no reason to take him with Müller, Schürrle, Podolski, Reus in the team
- Schmelzer, inferior to the other options
- Gündogan, will never get minutes, can play from WC2014 on. (I'm torn 50/50 between him and Draxler, but I somehow like Draxlers style better. Neither of them is really needed for lack of alternatives, so it's just about who I like better at this point, though technically I guess there's more forwards than CMs in the team, so it'll probably be Draxler who'll be cut ahead of Gündogan Sad )

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by Valkyrja on Sun May 27, 2012 12:46 am

Andreas Beck on the right and Lahm on the left ?

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Sun May 27, 2012 1:28 am

Höwedes on the right. :coffee:

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by Zealous on Sun May 27, 2012 3:12 am

Reus :bow:

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Sun May 27, 2012 8:28 pm

Reus really was amazing. I hope Dortmund signs a Kagawa replacement besides him anyway, I want them to light up the UCL, and Reus is probably the guy to do it. Dangerous even when nothng else is working. :bow:

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by juventus101 on Mon May 28, 2012 9:10 am

At this point, with Baysrns defense bsing 2nd in the world, and Hummels not performing for the national team, plus Mertesacker not fully healthy, i think the best way to go would be:


--Neuer--
--Howedes-- --Boateng-- --Badstuber-- --Lahm--
--Schweini-- --Khedira--
--Muller-- --Ozil-- --Podolski--
--Klose--

Hummels can start ahead of Howedes and push Boateng out right, but he needs to perform.better than he did against the Swiss. Granted, Mertesacker was awful which just made Hummels look worse, but conceding 5 goals in unacceptable, especially to the Swiss, who arent exactly a top team. Also, Kroos is on excellent form, but unless he and Schweini learn to fo a bit more defensive work together so they can play together in CM, theres just no place for him cuz i believe the only midfidlder thats not untouchable is Khedira.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by juventus101 on Mon May 28, 2012 9:25 am

Also, the bench should look like: Weidenfeller, Ter Stegen, Hummels, Mertesacker, Schmelzer, Bender bros, Kroos, Gundogan, Schurrle, Gotze, Reus, Gomez. Even though id rather take out Ter Stegen and Lars and put in Rensing and Holtby. Dont know why they gst overlooked so much. Both are class. Also, Ballack for Gundogan is a tough one too cuz i think Gundogan is developing well, but i think Ballack deserves to hit that 100 cap mark and more.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Mon May 28, 2012 11:44 am

Well, Löw won't call up anyone new outside the 27 he already nominated, so the question is who will get culled from the squad. My choice from these would be:

GK: Manuel Neuer (26 years, Bayern München), Marc-André ter Stegen (20, Borussia Mönchengladbach), Ron-Robert Zieler (23, Hannover 96)

Defense: Holger Badstuber (23), Philipp Lahm (28), Jerome Boateng (23, all Bayern München), Mats Hummels (23, Borussia Dortmund), Benedikt Höwedes (24, Schalke 04)

Midfield: Bastian Schweinsteiger (27), Toni Kroos (22), Thomas Müller (22, all Bayern München), André Schürrle (21), Lars Bender (23, both Bayer Leverkusen), Sami Khedira (25), Mesut Özil (23, both Real Madrid), Marco Reus (22, Borussia Mönchengladbach), Sven Bender (23), Ilkay Gündogan (21), Mario Götze (19, all Borussia Dortmund), Julian Draxler (18, Schalke 04), Lukas Podolski (26, 1.FC Köln)

Attack: Mario Gomez (26, Bayern München), Miroslav Klose (33, Lazio Rom)

Out for me would be:

Tim Wiese (30, Werder Bremen)
Cacau (31, VfB Stuttgart)
Per Mertesacker (27, FC Arsenal)
Marcel Schmelzer (24, Borussia Dortmund)

Cutting two defenders looks risky on first view, but it seems that at least Sven Bender might not be a bad choice at FB, as Löw tested, and for some reason I doubt anyone would be worse than Schmelzer (without Großkreutz, that is - generally Schmelzer is pretty good at Dortmund, but only within the BVB system) there atm, and with Badstuber, Hummels, Boateng and Höwedes we have 4 optional CB choices, of whom Boateng can play FB, too and Höwedes as RB.

As for the starting 11, I agree with juventus101 and would use this, too:

Neuer
Höwedes -- Boateng -- Badstuber -- Lahm
Schweinsteiger -- Khedira
Müller -- Özil -- Podolski
Klose

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon May 28, 2012 5:29 pm

I concur. That is the most ovvious and low-risk starting XI. Maybe, if something changes durnig the tournament, we can experiment with our really young midfielders, but I'd prefer starting the Bayern block as well, if Löw absolutely must play a Dortmund defender he can do what Juve suggested and play Hummels as CB, pushing Boateng to FB.

The offense is obvious, it's the World Cup offense, and those players didn't get any worse in the meantime.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Mon May 28, 2012 6:09 pm

Well, I'd go for the low risk 11 in the first m,atch, as a good start is important. I'd love to see the youngsters Götze, Draxler, Schürrle and Gündogan to have their shot, too, but better only if we got two wins of the first two group matches Very Happy

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Mon May 28, 2012 8:10 pm

Official German line-up for the Euro:

GK: Manuel Neuer (26 years, Bayern München),
Tim Wiese (30, Werder Bremen), Ron-Robert Zieler (23, Hannover 96)

Defense: Holger Badstuber (23), Philipp Lahm (28), Jerome Boateng (23, all Bayern München), Mats Hummels (23), Marcel Schmelzer (24, Borussia Dortmund), Benedikt Höwedes (24, Schalke 04), Per Mertesacker (27, FC Arsenal)

Midfield: Bastian Schweinsteiger (27), Toni Kroos (22), Thomas Müller (22, all Bayern München), André Schürrle (21), Lars Bender (23, both Bayer Leverkusen), Sami Khedira (25), Mesut Özil (23, both Real Madrid), Marco Reus (22, Borussia Mönchengladbach), Ilkay Gündogan (21), Mario Götze (19, both Borussia Dortmund), Lukas Podolski (26, 1.FC Köln)

Attack: Mario Gomez (26, Bayern München), Miroslav Klose (33, Lazio Rom)


Already on the way home:
Marc-André ter Stegen (20, Borussia Mönchengladbach)
Julian Draxler (18, Schalke 04)
Sven Bender (23, Borussia Dortmund)
Cacau (31, VfB Stuttgart)

Source: http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=128 (the squad)
http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=511739&tx_dfbnews_pi1[showUid]=33860&tx_dfbnews_pi4[cat]=168

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by Babun on Mon May 28, 2012 8:18 pm

I want Reus at CF. Klose didn't look convincing and I don't trust Gomez :coffee:

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by juventus101 on Mon May 28, 2012 8:19 pm

Yea, i would love to personally see something like this:

--Neuer--
--Howedes-- --Boateng-- --Badstuber-- --Lahm--
--Kroos-- --Schweini--
--Ozil------- -------Gotze--
--Muller-- --Podolski--

Basically a 4222 with two AMs in Gotze and Ozil, with them sometimes drifting out wide and then Kroos or Schweini can push through the middle, with Poldi and Muller as out and out strikers. Also, when Gotze and Ozil push through the middle Poldi and Muller can push out wide. So its basically a 424 with the front 4 all having free roles.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by rwo power on Mon May 28, 2012 8:21 pm

Hm. So far Götze & Özil together haven't convinced yet, so I doubt Löw will play them together as starters.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon May 28, 2012 9:24 pm

Well, the cuts make sense.

Sven Bender, Draxler, ter Stegen, Cacau out.

I get why he's keeping Gündogan, since otherwise Kroos and Schweinsteiger would be our only two creative CMs. Bender, I guess had to be cut, because he couldn't cut anyone else. Gündogan is needed. This means that Lars Bender is the only direct backup to Khedira now, though. I guess in the end he opted for the players most used to switching positions, which is smart.

ter Stegen is the one I agree the least with, I'd rather have sent home Wiese, but I guess Löw prefers experience there.

Now let's have a look at who can actually play what position:

GK: Neuer, Wiese, Zieler, pretty obvious.

FB: Lahm, Schmelzer, (Bender?), Höwedes, Boateng
CB: Boateng, Badstuber, Hummels, Höwedes, Mertesacker
DM: Khedira, Bender, (Schweinsteiger?, Lahm)
CM: Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Gündogan, Bender
AM: Özil, Götze, Kroos
Wingers: Podolski, Müller, Reus, Götze, Schürrle, (Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Özil)
SS: Müller, Podolski, Reus, Schürrle
CF: Klose, Gomez, Reus, (Müller, Podolski, Schürrle)

I kept the ones in brackets who probably have the necessary skillsets, but are unlikely to play that position, either because they haven't been tried there, haven't been played there in ages, or are simply much better if played elsewhere.

Now that I've put it that way, as in what players can play what position, I probably would've cut Schmelzer or Gündogan and kept Sven Bender, since the DM position is probably the one with the least direct backups. And yes, I know, technically with Germany it's probably more of a defensive CM, still, Bender would've fit the bill.

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Re: Ze German Thread

Post by juventus101 on Mon May 28, 2012 9:54 pm

Podolski and Muller can also play as Center Attacking Mids. Both do it for their clubs, Koln and Bayern.

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