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Italian National Team Thread

Post by Milantildeath on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:00 am

Thought I'd start the thread again since it was so popular in the former section. Revised from last game and who has been called up

--------------------Buffon
Maggio-------Chiellini----Ranocchia--------Balzaretti

----------------------Pirlo
-------------Nocerino-----Marchisio
--------------------Montolivo

---------------G. Rossi---Cassano


Last edited by Milantildeath on Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Milantildeath on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:06 am

even though I'd want Gamberini over Ranocchia I know Prandelli wont do it

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Internal on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:09 am

@Milantildeath wrote:Thought I'd start the thread again since it was so popular in the former section. Revised from last game and who has been called up

--------------------Buffon
Maggio-------Chiellini----Ranocchia--------Balzaretti

----------------------Pirlo
-------------Nocerino-----Marchisio
--------------------Montolivo

---------------G. Rossi---Cassano

tbh, i really liked they way we looked against estonia. very creative and definitely better than a year ago. i know it was lowly estonia, but impressive nonetheless
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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by C.Marchisio #8 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:09 am

@Milantildeath wrote:Thought I'd start the thread again since it was so popular in the former section. Revised from last game and who has been called up

--------------------Buffon
Maggio-------Chiellini----Ranocchia--------Balzaretti

----------------------Pirlo
-------------Nocerino-----Marchisio
--------------------Montolivo

---------------G. Rossi---Cassano

Nice Smile

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:15 am

Imagine having the likes of Balotelli and Quag back.

As for Montolivo, let's hope he gets a chance in the TQ position against Ireland, see how he does. Already two assists to his name against Estonia. My problem with Montolivo is that he lacks with finishing, and wastes a lot of opportunities, for example taking long range shots and what not. Not forgetting his work rate and able to track back makes things much better. It is a step up from Mauri..

Let's just hope Cassano regains fitness, seeing him in a TQ can be deadily aswell.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Milantildeath on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:29 am

I think Nocerino has earned a spot as well, his fitness and grit is awesome to have in the field. He is a more technical version of Gattuso.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Ganso on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:32 am

last match made it pretty obvious that cassano-rossi is a must
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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:41 am

@Ganso wrote:last match made it pretty obvious that cassano-rossi is a must

Not entirely, this will not always work against strong opposition's with harder defenses. Although Estonia played with defensive tactics, in a 4-4-1-1 covering almost every possible space, Prandelli read the game right and chose mobile players to get the win over Estonia. However this will not work all the time, we will always need players like Pazzini to find open space and score goals.

But what about someone like Balotelli then? Who can actually do both the SS role and the CF role.. A duo of Cassano and Balotelli sounds even deadily, I guess the best way to chose our combinations is with who is best inform. So Rossi is a must, Cassano when he regains fitness, he will be better then now. Balotelli needs more playing time, and were all set to go.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by S on Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:50 am

............................................4---3---2---1.........................................................



.................................................BUFFON(C)....................................................



ABATE...................RANNOCHIA................CHIELLINI........................CRISCITO..



...............MARCHISIO........................PIRLO...................................DE ROSSI...


..............................G.ROSSI.............................CASSANO.............................




.................................................BALOTELLI.................................................
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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Ali on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:35 pm

-------------------Buffon-------------
Abate-Chielleni-Rannochia---Cristico
-------------------De Rossi---------
-------------Montolivo-----Giovinco--
----Balotelli------------------Cassano
-----------------Rossi-----------

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:03 pm

Surag.Blueguy wrote:............................................4---3---2---1.........................................................



.................................................BUFFON(C)....................................................



ABATE...................RANNOCHIA................CHIELLINI........................CRISCITO..



...............MARCHISIO........................PIRLO...................................DE ROSSI...


..............................G.ROSSI.............................CASSANO.............................




.................................................BALOTELLI.................................................

4-3-2-1 is my favored formation aswell.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by tahaa89 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:52 pm

I think the best formation for us in my openion is the 4-2-3-1 which would be something like this --
--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Pirlo-----------------
G.Rossi-----------Cassano----------Giovinco
--------------------Pazzini--------------------

The centre back position would go to the player more in-form between Bonnuci and Rannuchio, Chiellini would be my first choise. Although It won't be a bade idea if we move Chiellini to the left as Giovinco won't have to worry about tracking back anymore. If Balotelli can get some game time and mature then he would take Pazzo's place.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:37 pm

@tahaa89 wrote:I think the best formation for us in my openion is the 4-2-3-1 which would be something like this --
--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Pirlo-----------------
G.Rossi-----------Cassano----------Giovinco
--------------------Pazzini--------------------

The centre back position would go to the player more in-form between Bonnuci and Rannuchio, Chiellini would be my first choise. Although It won't be a bade idea if we move Chiellini to the left as Giovinco won't have to worry about tracking back anymore. If Balotelli can get some game time and mature then he would take Pazzo's place.

That is deadly ! However, don't expect this to work against Strong oppositions. Our Midfield would be too thin to contain them.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by ErPupone on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:06 am

I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Brigate Rossonere on Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:02 am

@tahaa89 wrote:I think the best formation for us in my openion is the 4-2-3-1 which would be something like this --
--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Pirlo-----------------
G.Rossi-----------Cassano----------Giovinco
--------------------Pazzini--------------------

The centre back position would go to the player more in-form between Bonnuci and Rannuchio, Chiellini would be my first choise. Although It won't be a bade idea if we move Chiellini to the left as Giovinco won't have to worry about tracking back anymore. If Balotelli can get some game time and mature then he would take Pazzo's place.

As much as I love this team, it has no midfield depth. Maybe if you changed it to :

--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Nocerino-----------------
-----------------Montolivo----------------------
G.Rossi-------------------------------------Giovinco
--------------------Pazzini--------------------

but even then....

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by tahaa89 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:36 pm

Yeh, true, I guess against the likes of Spain and Germany that formation won't work. I guess 4-4-2 has allways been our most successfull formation. Rossi-Cassano must start in my openion, because when of them dosen't we lack creativity. This is why I hope Giovinco goes back to Juve or move to a bigger team. Another possibility is to play like this --

--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Marchisio------------
Montilivo-----------Pirlo-------------Cassano
--------------------G.Rossi--------------------

We would be keeping the same formation that we would use against lesser teams, but with different personal against Spain and Germany we could keep more position and have a stronger midfield.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:52 pm

@ErPupone wrote:I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

Hmm I got to disagree. Although Montolivo was able to pop in two assists against Estonia, he failed completely against Ireland. I feel he's better off being a CAM because he's better at it. The problem with the treqaurtista's is the we lack. Giovinco is too small, Pirlo is getting old, Aquilani is not able, Montolivo is not a natural TQ, Cassano is out of shape, Balotelli is too lazy to track back. So the solution is reverti it, to 4-3-2-1. Instead of relying on a TQ, having Cassano and Rossi be your seconda punta's and support a prima punta like Matri or Pazzini. That would work, making everything balanced. And yet, we can use other players to play the roles and always expect the same outcome, like Giovinco or Balotelli.

Sorry Mike, I agree with the Midfield however your conclusion with the CB's seems a bit odd to be. I for one agree that Gamberini is not convincing to me and I never liked him. Me and MTD had a debate about it, and he was wrong this whole time. Not only was I right about Gamberini being poor, not deserving of a spot, and there to replace Astori who was suspended.. He even was at fault for the second goal against Ireland.

However, I don't see why your not convinced by Ranocchia and Bonucci. If you're not convinced by them, then who should we rely on? Ranocchia has been pretty decent up to this point. A monster in my opinion. Bonucci, aswell, has his ups and downs, however is still a great defender. Needless to say, we shouldn't forget that Rano and Bonucci has the best defensive record with Bari out of the whole league. So that should mean something and convince you some way.



@Brigate Rossonere wrote:
@tahaa89 wrote:I think the best formation for us in my openion is the 4-2-3-1 which would be something like this --
--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Pirlo-----------------
G.Rossi-----------Cassano----------Giovinco
--------------------Pazzini--------------------

The centre back position would go to the player more in-form between Bonnuci and Rannuchio, Chiellini would be my first choise. Although It won't be a bade idea if we move Chiellini to the left as Giovinco won't have to worry about tracking back anymore. If Balotelli can get some game time and mature then he would take Pazzo's place.

As much as I love this team, it has no midfield depth. Maybe if you changed it to :

--------------------Buffon--------------------
Abate----Bonnuci------Chiellini---Balzeratti
-------------De Rossi---Nocerino-----------------
-----------------Montolivo----------------------
G.Rossi-------------------------------------Giovinco
--------------------Pazzini--------------------

but even then....

I agree, it has no depth. However. Rossi can't play on the wing. He is a central player. He dosen't love playing on the wings.

Shift that to a 4-3-2-1.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by ErPupone on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:03 pm

sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

Hmm I got to disagree. Although Montolivo was able to pop in two assists against Estonia, he failed completely against Ireland. I feel he's better off being a CAM because he's better at it. The problem with the treqaurtista's is the we lack. Giovinco is too small, Pirlo is getting old, Aquilani is not able, Montolivo is not a natural TQ, Cassano is out of shape, Balotelli is too lazy to track back. So the solution is reverti it, to 4-3-2-1. Instead of relying on a TQ, having Cassano and Rossi be your seconda punta's and support a prima punta like Matri or Pazzini. That would work, making everything balanced. And yet, we can use other players to play the roles and always expect the same outcome, like Giovinco or Balotelli.

Sorry Mike, I agree with the Midfield however your conclusion with the CB's seems a bit odd to be. I for one agree that Gamberini is not convincing to me and I never liked him. Me and MTD had a debate about it, and he was wrong this whole time. Not only was I right about Gamberini being poor, not deserving of a spot, and there to replace Astori who was suspended.. He even was at fault for the second goal against Ireland.

However, I don't see why your not convinced by Ranocchia and Bonucci. If you're not convinced by them, then who should we rely on? Ranocchia has been pretty decent up to this point. A monster in my opinion. Bonucci, aswell, has his ups and downs, however is still a great defender. Needless to say, we shouldn't forget that Rano and Bonucci has the best defensive record with Bari out of the whole league. So that should mean something and convince you some way.

Well let's get one thing straight, the days of natural trequartistas are done. The last "real" trequartistas were Totti and Del Piero and they don't even play that position anymore. I chose Montolivo because I find him to be the best fit in that position despite the fact that it isn't his favoured role. He has the willingness to contribute on both ends of the pitch and has the ability to put in some good through balls to supply his strikers. I often have the "Defense-first" mentality and do not usually favour having 3 strikers such as Rossi, Cassano and Balotelli on the pitch at once when you don't have full confidence in your defense. Our defence in terms of quality is a little weak, despite the good stats we've had in our qualifications (of course it's hard to forget the days of the Cannavaro-Nesta partnership so everything compared to that is weak). Gamberini is definitely not good enough to be a starter. To be honest, I have trouble picking between Ranocchia and Bonucci, they both have their shortcomings. But there are no other options other than Astori and Barzagli, though those would be long-shots.

As for the difference between the 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2, there isn't a big difference and no matter which one we use on paper, it's the players' natural instincts and ability that prevail. Whether it's:

Cassano Rossi
Pazzini

or

Cassano
Pazzini Rossi

There isn't a big difference since Cassano and Rossi are both mobile strikers who will roam from their positions to a certain point.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:33 pm

@ErPupone wrote:
sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

Hmm I got to disagree. Although Montolivo was able to pop in two assists against Estonia, he failed completely against Ireland. I feel he's better off being a CAM because he's better at it. The problem with the treqaurtista's is the we lack. Giovinco is too small, Pirlo is getting old, Aquilani is not able, Montolivo is not a natural TQ, Cassano is out of shape, Balotelli is too lazy to track back. So the solution is reverti it, to 4-3-2-1. Instead of relying on a TQ, having Cassano and Rossi be your seconda punta's and support a prima punta like Matri or Pazzini. That would work, making everything balanced. And yet, we can use other players to play the roles and always expect the same outcome, like Giovinco or Balotelli.

Sorry Mike, I agree with the Midfield however your conclusion with the CB's seems a bit odd to be. I for one agree that Gamberini is not convincing to me and I never liked him. Me and MTD had a debate about it, and he was wrong this whole time. Not only was I right about Gamberini being poor, not deserving of a spot, and there to replace Astori who was suspended.. He even was at fault for the second goal against Ireland.

However, I don't see why your not convinced by Ranocchia and Bonucci. If you're not convinced by them, then who should we rely on? Ranocchia has been pretty decent up to this point. A monster in my opinion. Bonucci, aswell, has his ups and downs, however is still a great defender. Needless to say, we shouldn't forget that Rano and Bonucci has the best defensive record with Bari out of the whole league. So that should mean something and convince you some way.

Well let's get one thing straight, the days of natural trequartistas are done. The last "real" trequartistas were Totti and Del Piero and they don't even play that position anymore. I chose Montolivo because I find him to be the best fit in that position despite the fact that it isn't his favoured role. He has the willingness to contribute on both ends of the pitch and has the ability to put in some good through balls to supply his strikers. I often have the "Defense-first" mentality and do not usually favour having 3 strikers such as Rossi, Cassano and Balotelli on the pitch at once when you don't have full confidence in your defense. Our defence in terms of quality is a little weak, despite the good stats we've had in our qualifications (of course it's hard to forget the days of the Cannavaro-Nesta partnership so everything compared to that is weak). Gamberini is definitely not good enough to be a starter. To be honest, I have trouble picking between Ranocchia and Bonucci, they both have their shortcomings. But there are no other options other than Astori and Barzagli, though those would be long-shots.

As for the difference between the 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2, there isn't a big difference and no matter which one we use on paper, it's the players' natural instincts and ability that prevail. Whether it's:

Cassano Rossi
Pazzini

or

Cassano
Pazzini Rossi

There isn't a big difference since Cassano and Rossi are both mobile strikers who will roam from their positions to a certain point.

Hmm, I wouldn't say our natural trequartista's are done. Well one can blame the type of football's that are made these days like the current World Cup Ball for the lack of play makers due to the fact how the ball swuers. But in any case, we have some trequartista's coming up. I don't know if you have been following the U21 lately, but there's someone by the name of Diego Fabbrini. He can play both as a traditional trequartista or on the wing, where he has been mainly placed. He’s great on the wing because he can cut onto his favored right foot. He also isn’t lazy and gets back and defends. Fabbrini has said his idol is Kaka, and he really plays like an Italian Kaka. He has great acceleration, but his best quality is his innate skill and sublime technique. He loves to take on players one on one, and most of the time he beats them with relative ease. He can either play as a Seconda Punta, Winger or a Trequartista. Other aswell like Poli can do the same if anything, so I wouldn't say they are completely gone.

There's no need to have trouble to choose over Rano or Bonnuci. My pick is easy, Ranocchia. He has been great up to this point, he is like a Monster, a Brick wall. I love how he was able to control Ozil against Germany for example. Or his goal saving slide against Bayern. His whole performance during that game was great, just goes to show if he can do it in the CL he can surely do it in the international level.

Bonucci has his ups and downs. He is a solid choice, that's all. He does play with Cheillini however, so their chemistry might be better then actually using Rano in stead.

Or else we can do like we did vs Germany, and have Bonucci and Rano in the Middle, while having Cheillini in LB. It all depends on the situations I guess.

Exactly. They are two mobile players, so in fact, it will sometimes look like a 4-3-3 seeing that they might even go on the wings. That's my whole point of making fluid and balanced. We can have a duo of seconda punta's, adding in one deadily prima punta, and there you have it. We don't even have to rely on our fullbacks to cross in the ball which piratically solves our solution if you ask me.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:58 pm

Italy’s friendly against Spain in August will take place at Bari’s Stadio San Nicola.

The two teams will play each other on August 10 in a tie which Azzurri boss Cesare Prandelli is looking forward to.

"I can’t wait to play the glamour friendlies,” the former Fiorentina tactician said before Tuesday’s 2-0 loss against the Republic of Ireland.

“They are the kind of tests that can allow us to take a leap in quality that I expect and give my side a true dimension.”

Italy have played Spain on 28 occasions, winning nine, drawing 11 and losing eight. They have scored 36 goals in those ties, conceding 28 in the process.

They last beat Spain at the 1994 World Cup, but have lost two of the next five games. Their last meeting was at Euro 2008 when the Azzurri lost on penalties.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by ErPupone on Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:27 pm

sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:
sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

Hmm I got to disagree. Although Montolivo was able to pop in two assists against Estonia, he failed completely against Ireland. I feel he's better off being a CAM because he's better at it. The problem with the treqaurtista's is the we lack. Giovinco is too small, Pirlo is getting old, Aquilani is not able, Montolivo is not a natural TQ, Cassano is out of shape, Balotelli is too lazy to track back. So the solution is reverti it, to 4-3-2-1. Instead of relying on a TQ, having Cassano and Rossi be your seconda punta's and support a prima punta like Matri or Pazzini. That would work, making everything balanced. And yet, we can use other players to play the roles and always expect the same outcome, like Giovinco or Balotelli.

Sorry Mike, I agree with the Midfield however your conclusion with the CB's seems a bit odd to be. I for one agree that Gamberini is not convincing to me and I never liked him. Me and MTD had a debate about it, and he was wrong this whole time. Not only was I right about Gamberini being poor, not deserving of a spot, and there to replace Astori who was suspended.. He even was at fault for the second goal against Ireland.

However, I don't see why your not convinced by Ranocchia and Bonucci. If you're not convinced by them, then who should we rely on? Ranocchia has been pretty decent up to this point. A monster in my opinion. Bonucci, aswell, has his ups and downs, however is still a great defender. Needless to say, we shouldn't forget that Rano and Bonucci has the best defensive record with Bari out of the whole league. So that should mean something and convince you some way.

Well let's get one thing straight, the days of natural trequartistas are done. The last "real" trequartistas were Totti and Del Piero and they don't even play that position anymore. I chose Montolivo because I find him to be the best fit in that position despite the fact that it isn't his favoured role. He has the willingness to contribute on both ends of the pitch and has the ability to put in some good through balls to supply his strikers. I often have the "Defense-first" mentality and do not usually favour having 3 strikers such as Rossi, Cassano and Balotelli on the pitch at once when you don't have full confidence in your defense. Our defence in terms of quality is a little weak, despite the good stats we've had in our qualifications (of course it's hard to forget the days of the Cannavaro-Nesta partnership so everything compared to that is weak). Gamberini is definitely not good enough to be a starter. To be honest, I have trouble picking between Ranocchia and Bonucci, they both have their shortcomings. But there are no other options other than Astori and Barzagli, though those would be long-shots.

As for the difference between the 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2, there isn't a big difference and no matter which one we use on paper, it's the players' natural instincts and ability that prevail. Whether it's:

Cassano Rossi
Pazzini

or

Cassano
Pazzini Rossi

There isn't a big difference since Cassano and Rossi are both mobile strikers who will roam from their positions to a certain point.

Hmm, I wouldn't say our natural trequartista's are done. Well one can blame the type of football's that are made these days like the current World Cup Ball for the lack of play makers due to the fact how the ball swuers. But in any case, we have some trequartista's coming up. I don't know if you have been following the U21 lately, but there's someone by the name of Diego Fabbrini. He can play both as a traditional trequartista or on the wing, where he has been mainly placed. He’s great on the wing because he can cut onto his favored right foot. He also isn’t lazy and gets back and defends. Fabbrini has said his idol is Kaka, and he really plays like an Italian Kaka. He has great acceleration, but his best quality is his innate skill and sublime technique. He loves to take on players one on one, and most of the time he beats them with relative ease. He can either play as a Seconda Punta, Winger or a Trequartista. Other aswell like Poli can do the same if anything, so I wouldn't say they are completely gone.

There's no need to have trouble to choose over Rano or Bonnuci. My pick is easy, Ranocchia. He has been great up to this point, he is like a Monster, a Brick wall. I love how he was able to control Ozil against Germany for example. Or his goal saving slide against Bayern. His whole performance during that game was great, just goes to show if he can do it in the CL he can surely do it in the international level.

Bonucci has his ups and downs. He is a solid choice, that's all. He does play with Cheillini however, so their chemistry might be better then actually using Rano in stead.

Or else we can do like we did vs Germany, and have Bonucci and Rano in the Middle, while having Cheillini in LB. It all depends on the situations I guess.

Exactly. They are two mobile players, so in fact, it will sometimes look like a 4-3-3 seeing that they might even go on the wings. That's my whole point of making fluid and balanced. We can have a duo of seconda punta's, adding in one deadily prima punta, and there you have it. We don't even have to rely on our fullbacks to cross in the ball which piratically solves our solution if you ask me.

Well I don't see Fabbrini as a traditional trequartista, but more like a seconda punta or a winger. I was watching the u-21's these last two weeks and there are some interesting players there. Against France, I think we should have won, especially after that great first half. Paloschi should have scored the equaliser right at the end but took too much time on the ball. D'Alessandro played well too.

Back to the topic though, Ranocchia had some good games this season, but also had a share of bad ones. He still has room for improvement and could then make a real case for being a fixed member of our starting 11. I would probably pick him over Bonucci too, but they're not miles apart by any stretch. Bonucci and Ranocchia in the middle? I rather not. I think we're in a lot of trouble if anything happens to Chiellini.

As for the attack, Pazzini would be far more dangerous if he had good service from our full backs. We need to fix that problem. If we want to utilize the wings more to make Pazzini more effective, an option would be to switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, but we don't have the correct wingers to do it (we would only have the second puntas who could play out wide... or Pepe lol). Our midfield is a bit of a problem at the moment and we don't have many options, as someone else posted earlier.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:43 am

@ErPupone wrote:
sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:
sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

Hmm I got to disagree. Although Montolivo was able to pop in two assists against Estonia, he failed completely against Ireland. I feel he's better off being a CAM because he's better at it. The problem with the treqaurtista's is the we lack. Giovinco is too small, Pirlo is getting old, Aquilani is not able, Montolivo is not a natural TQ, Cassano is out of shape, Balotelli is too lazy to track back. So the solution is reverti it, to 4-3-2-1. Instead of relying on a TQ, having Cassano and Rossi be your seconda punta's and support a prima punta like Matri or Pazzini. That would work, making everything balanced. And yet, we can use other players to play the roles and always expect the same outcome, like Giovinco or Balotelli.

Sorry Mike, I agree with the Midfield however your conclusion with the CB's seems a bit odd to be. I for one agree that Gamberini is not convincing to me and I never liked him. Me and MTD had a debate about it, and he was wrong this whole time. Not only was I right about Gamberini being poor, not deserving of a spot, and there to replace Astori who was suspended.. He even was at fault for the second goal against Ireland.

However, I don't see why your not convinced by Ranocchia and Bonucci. If you're not convinced by them, then who should we rely on? Ranocchia has been pretty decent up to this point. A monster in my opinion. Bonucci, aswell, has his ups and downs, however is still a great defender. Needless to say, we shouldn't forget that Rano and Bonucci has the best defensive record with Bari out of the whole league. So that should mean something and convince you some way.

Well let's get one thing straight, the days of natural trequartistas are done. The last "real" trequartistas were Totti and Del Piero and they don't even play that position anymore. I chose Montolivo because I find him to be the best fit in that position despite the fact that it isn't his favoured role. He has the willingness to contribute on both ends of the pitch and has the ability to put in some good through balls to supply his strikers. I often have the "Defense-first" mentality and do not usually favour having 3 strikers such as Rossi, Cassano and Balotelli on the pitch at once when you don't have full confidence in your defense. Our defence in terms of quality is a little weak, despite the good stats we've had in our qualifications (of course it's hard to forget the days of the Cannavaro-Nesta partnership so everything compared to that is weak). Gamberini is definitely not good enough to be a starter. To be honest, I have trouble picking between Ranocchia and Bonucci, they both have their shortcomings. But there are no other options other than Astori and Barzagli, though those would be long-shots.

As for the difference between the 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2, there isn't a big difference and no matter which one we use on paper, it's the players' natural instincts and ability that prevail. Whether it's:

Cassano Rossi
Pazzini

or

Cassano
Pazzini Rossi

There isn't a big difference since Cassano and Rossi are both mobile strikers who will roam from their positions to a certain point.

Hmm, I wouldn't say our natural trequartista's are done. Well one can blame the type of football's that are made these days like the current World Cup Ball for the lack of play makers due to the fact how the ball swuers. But in any case, we have some trequartista's coming up. I don't know if you have been following the U21 lately, but there's someone by the name of Diego Fabbrini. He can play both as a traditional trequartista or on the wing, where he has been mainly placed. He’s great on the wing because he can cut onto his favored right foot. He also isn’t lazy and gets back and defends. Fabbrini has said his idol is Kaka, and he really plays like an Italian Kaka. He has great acceleration, but his best quality is his innate skill and sublime technique. He loves to take on players one on one, and most of the time he beats them with relative ease. He can either play as a Seconda Punta, Winger or a Trequartista. Other aswell like Poli can do the same if anything, so I wouldn't say they are completely gone.

There's no need to have trouble to choose over Rano or Bonnuci. My pick is easy, Ranocchia. He has been great up to this point, he is like a Monster, a Brick wall. I love how he was able to control Ozil against Germany for example. Or his goal saving slide against Bayern. His whole performance during that game was great, just goes to show if he can do it in the CL he can surely do it in the international level.

Bonucci has his ups and downs. He is a solid choice, that's all. He does play with Cheillini however, so their chemistry might be better then actually using Rano in stead.

Or else we can do like we did vs Germany, and have Bonucci and Rano in the Middle, while having Cheillini in LB. It all depends on the situations I guess.

Exactly. They are two mobile players, so in fact, it will sometimes look like a 4-3-3 seeing that they might even go on the wings. That's my whole point of making fluid and balanced. We can have a duo of seconda punta's, adding in one deadily prima punta, and there you have it. We don't even have to rely on our fullbacks to cross in the ball which piratically solves our solution if you ask me.

Well I don't see Fabbrini as a traditional trequartista, but more like a seconda punta or a winger. I was watching the u-21's these last two weeks and there are some interesting players there. Against France, I think we should have won, especially after that great first half. Paloschi should have scored the equaliser right at the end but took too much time on the ball. D'Alessandro played well too.

Back to the topic though, Ranocchia had some good games this season, but also had a share of bad ones. He still has room for improvement and could then make a real case for being a fixed member of our starting 11. I would probably pick him over Bonucci too, but they're not miles apart by any stretch. Bonucci and Ranocchia in the middle? I rather not. I think we're in a lot of trouble if anything happens to Chiellini.

As for the attack, Pazzini would be far more dangerous if he had good service from our full backs. We need to fix that problem. If we want to utilize the wings more to make Pazzini more effective, an option would be to switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, but we don't have the correct wingers to do it (we would only have the second puntas who could play out wide... or Pepe lol). Our midfield is a bit of a problem at the moment and we don't have many options, as someone else posted earlier.

Well, I've been watching Fabbrini very closely with Empoli, and let me tell you he has been on fire. He is showing a lot of potential and his vision for the game, is out standing for his age. He's number 10 of the U21 for a season haha. He is co-owned by Udinese, so he will be playing with them next season, if they don't loan him out again, hopefully we see him gain more experience. Mark my words, this kid has a great future ahead of him.

Well why wouldn't you put them in the middle. Against Germany they were pretty solid and promising in my views. The stats don't like, their partnership and chemistry is great. They understand each other, know how to play together and have great communication. Now ofcourse I won't go to the extent and say we exclude Cheillini, because that is complete none sense. However, Rano is in better form and he should start with Cheillini.

I wouldn't say our midfield is a problem, yes I agree we don't have quality wingers. But as I said, we do have quality CM's and SS's... That's why 4-3-2-1 fits perfectly. You saw how Rossi made Pazzini score against Estonia, that's exactly what im talking about.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by ErPupone on Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:18 am

sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:
sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:
sciacca wrote:
@ErPupone wrote:I would favor a 4-3-1-2 with Montolivo as a trequartista behind Rossi and Cassano. Since this team is having trouble playing out wide and putting in quality crosses, players like Gilardino or Pazzini are much less dangerous. We couldn't put in one decent cross against Ireland which was worrying, so for now I would go with Rossi and Cassano which would be a good duo going down the middle. In midfield, 3 out of Pirlo, De Rossi, Nocerino and Marchisio would get the other spots, maybe even Aquilani if he has a good season and stays away from injuries. Parolo could attempt to get in there as well if he has another good season. As for the defense, Chiellini is a certainty, while I'm not convinced by either Bonucci, Gamberini or Ranocchia.

Hmm I got to disagree. Although Montolivo was able to pop in two assists against Estonia, he failed completely against Ireland. I feel he's better off being a CAM because he's better at it. The problem with the treqaurtista's is the we lack. Giovinco is too small, Pirlo is getting old, Aquilani is not able, Montolivo is not a natural TQ, Cassano is out of shape, Balotelli is too lazy to track back. So the solution is reverti it, to 4-3-2-1. Instead of relying on a TQ, having Cassano and Rossi be your seconda punta's and support a prima punta like Matri or Pazzini. That would work, making everything balanced. And yet, we can use other players to play the roles and always expect the same outcome, like Giovinco or Balotelli.

Sorry Mike, I agree with the Midfield however your conclusion with the CB's seems a bit odd to be. I for one agree that Gamberini is not convincing to me and I never liked him. Me and MTD had a debate about it, and he was wrong this whole time. Not only was I right about Gamberini being poor, not deserving of a spot, and there to replace Astori who was suspended.. He even was at fault for the second goal against Ireland.

However, I don't see why your not convinced by Ranocchia and Bonucci. If you're not convinced by them, then who should we rely on? Ranocchia has been pretty decent up to this point. A monster in my opinion. Bonucci, aswell, has his ups and downs, however is still a great defender. Needless to say, we shouldn't forget that Rano and Bonucci has the best defensive record with Bari out of the whole league. So that should mean something and convince you some way.

Well let's get one thing straight, the days of natural trequartistas are done. The last "real" trequartistas were Totti and Del Piero and they don't even play that position anymore. I chose Montolivo because I find him to be the best fit in that position despite the fact that it isn't his favoured role. He has the willingness to contribute on both ends of the pitch and has the ability to put in some good through balls to supply his strikers. I often have the "Defense-first" mentality and do not usually favour having 3 strikers such as Rossi, Cassano and Balotelli on the pitch at once when you don't have full confidence in your defense. Our defence in terms of quality is a little weak, despite the good stats we've had in our qualifications (of course it's hard to forget the days of the Cannavaro-Nesta partnership so everything compared to that is weak). Gamberini is definitely not good enough to be a starter. To be honest, I have trouble picking between Ranocchia and Bonucci, they both have their shortcomings. But there are no other options other than Astori and Barzagli, though those would be long-shots.

As for the difference between the 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2, there isn't a big difference and no matter which one we use on paper, it's the players' natural instincts and ability that prevail. Whether it's:

Cassano Rossi
Pazzini

or

Cassano
Pazzini Rossi

There isn't a big difference since Cassano and Rossi are both mobile strikers who will roam from their positions to a certain point.

Hmm, I wouldn't say our natural trequartista's are done. Well one can blame the type of football's that are made these days like the current World Cup Ball for the lack of play makers due to the fact how the ball swuers. But in any case, we have some trequartista's coming up. I don't know if you have been following the U21 lately, but there's someone by the name of Diego Fabbrini. He can play both as a traditional trequartista or on the wing, where he has been mainly placed. He’s great on the wing because he can cut onto his favored right foot. He also isn’t lazy and gets back and defends. Fabbrini has said his idol is Kaka, and he really plays like an Italian Kaka. He has great acceleration, but his best quality is his innate skill and sublime technique. He loves to take on players one on one, and most of the time he beats them with relative ease. He can either play as a Seconda Punta, Winger or a Trequartista. Other aswell like Poli can do the same if anything, so I wouldn't say they are completely gone.

There's no need to have trouble to choose over Rano or Bonnuci. My pick is easy, Ranocchia. He has been great up to this point, he is like a Monster, a Brick wall. I love how he was able to control Ozil against Germany for example. Or his goal saving slide against Bayern. His whole performance during that game was great, just goes to show if he can do it in the CL he can surely do it in the international level.

Bonucci has his ups and downs. He is a solid choice, that's all. He does play with Cheillini however, so their chemistry might be better then actually using Rano in stead.

Or else we can do like we did vs Germany, and have Bonucci and Rano in the Middle, while having Cheillini in LB. It all depends on the situations I guess.

Exactly. They are two mobile players, so in fact, it will sometimes look like a 4-3-3 seeing that they might even go on the wings. That's my whole point of making fluid and balanced. We can have a duo of seconda punta's, adding in one deadily prima punta, and there you have it. We don't even have to rely on our fullbacks to cross in the ball which piratically solves our solution if you ask me.

Well I don't see Fabbrini as a traditional trequartista, but more like a seconda punta or a winger. I was watching the u-21's these last two weeks and there are some interesting players there. Against France, I think we should have won, especially after that great first half. Paloschi should have scored the equaliser right at the end but took too much time on the ball. D'Alessandro played well too.

Back to the topic though, Ranocchia had some good games this season, but also had a share of bad ones. He still has room for improvement and could then make a real case for being a fixed member of our starting 11. I would probably pick him over Bonucci too, but they're not miles apart by any stretch. Bonucci and Ranocchia in the middle? I rather not. I think we're in a lot of trouble if anything happens to Chiellini.

As for the attack, Pazzini would be far more dangerous if he had good service from our full backs. We need to fix that problem. If we want to utilize the wings more to make Pazzini more effective, an option would be to switch to a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, but we don't have the correct wingers to do it (we would only have the second puntas who could play out wide... or Pepe lol). Our midfield is a bit of a problem at the moment and we don't have many options, as someone else posted earlier.

Well, I've been watching Fabbrini very closely with Empoli, and let me tell you he has been on fire. He is showing a lot of potential and his vision for the game, is out standing for his age. He's number 10 of the U21 for a season haha. He is co-owned by Udinese, so he will be playing with them next season, if they don't loan him out again, hopefully we see him gain more experience. Mark my words, this kid has a great future ahead of him.

Well why wouldn't you put them in the middle. Against Germany they were pretty solid and promising in my views. The stats don't like, their partnership and chemistry is great. They understand each other, know how to play together and have great communication. Now ofcourse I won't go to the extent and say we exclude Cheillini, because that is complete none sense. However, Rano is in better form and he should start with Cheillini.

I wouldn't say our midfield is a problem, yes I agree we don't have quality wingers. But as I said, we do have quality CM's and SS's... That's why 4-3-2-1 fits perfectly. You saw how Rossi made Pazzini score against Estonia, that's exactly what im talking about.

Yes, it worked against Estonia, but it won't be as easy when we come up against a team that has an actual defense. I agree that at this moment, the 4-3-2-1 and 4-3-1-2 is the best formation to use for the players we have. But there are going to be times when we need to really exploit the wings and put in quality crosses and I don't see Maggio/Cassani and Criscito/Balzaretti as being enough to do so. For the Euro, we need to be prepared to adapt to any situation and we need at least one quality winger capable of provinding good crosses for the likes of Pazzini, Gilardino, Matri and so on. The moment we have to change our approach, I think we're going to be entering a world of trouble. For example, take the match against Ireland (it was just a friendly, but nonetheless). Pirlo was shut down and the ball just wasn't entering their box. Our creativity was limited through the middle and we needed to rely on crosses from our full backs. Our full backs had trouble pushing up and when they did, their crossing was poor. We need to prepare for such situations again. From the top of my head, this would be a possible solution:

Buffon

Cassani Ranocchia Chiellini Criscito

Maggio Pirlo De Rossi Giovinco

Cassano Pazzini

I put in Maggio because he's the best winger we have at our disposal. As for the left, Giovinco is the only name I can think of at the moment and he isn't a natural winger. Also, there are going to be times when we need to start with a more defensive line-up. Take the 2006 World Cup for example. We went in with a 4-3-1-2 but eventually had to switch to a 4-4-1-1 because of suspensions and we needed to take a more balanced approach. In such a case, I would go with this:

Buffon

Cassani Ranocchia Chiellini Criscito

Maggio Pirlo De Rossi Nocerino

Rossi

Pazzini

I put in Nocerino because he seems to be the midfielder most capable of playing in that position, compared to Marchisio, Pirlo, De Rossi and Montolivo, in a more "box-to-box" role. We would need a real box-to-box midfielder capable of playing out wide as well; Ezequiel Schelotto comes to mind, maybe Marco Parolo... though they're not ready for the national team just yet.

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by Guest on Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:01 am

Maggio is not a quality winger... if you ask me...
Giovinco highly doubt he would be used there.
Nocerino is a CM not a winger.
Parolo is not Italy Material.
Schelotto has potential, but not deserving of a spot.

As much as I hate to say it, we can't rely on wingers.

Hmm, why wouldn't those formations work? It worked on Germany. As long as your midfield is strong enough, there's nothing to worry about.

With our current tactics, these formations won't work.

And plus with all the options we have in the bench, we have to atleast use 3 of them. Razz

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Re: Italian National Team Thread

Post by ErPupone on Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:59 am

The first 5 lines of your post is exactly what I'm trying to show. Nocerino and Giovinco are not used to playing on the wing, while Maggio is good but not a top class winger. The moment we move out of our comfortable 4312 is the moment we'll be in trouble. Why do we need to change formation? In games like the one this week. Trappatoni outsmarted us mainly by shutting down Pirlo and outnumbering us through the middle. In cases like that, you need to change approach, something this team I fear is incapable of because we have yet to be tested. This was always going to be a problem after the Prandelli overhaul.

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