Official Copa America Thread

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Post by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:15 am

Who wants that? neither of the continents want that.

Why not make an AFC/Eurocup merger then?

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Post by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:28 am

To give some context, there are 27 teams in concacaf, 10 in conmebol. The level difference is too big. The northeastern countries of SA play in the concacaf partly for that reason. The level difference between the concacaf itself is too big, only once in gold cup history has there not been the US or Mexico in the final.

They used to invite south american teams for the gold cup in a couple of editions, iirc 3 out of the 4 times they did it, SA teams were in the semifinals, and 2 or 3 finalists. In the Copa, the only guest team to reach the semis is Mexico (when they used to bring their A team).

Combining them just lowers the level of conmebol and makes even worse for the vast majority of concacaf teams. Offering almost no benefits in the mean time. Adding a concacaf qualifier to the Copa just relegates the concacaf to a B-level status, while no SA country is gonna support there being a qualifier for their own team to get into their own tournament as it is. Only US stands to benefit from this, maybe Mexico but I'm not as sure.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:43 am

The Guyanas and Surinams need to step up, at least 2 of the 3 need to get their act together and have a proper FA, so they can make up the numbers.

It would also help to put them on the map, not just figuratively speaking, as even though I consider myself pretty decent in basic geography these three little states continue to pose a problem to my brain.
Which one is which?
Are they all variations of Surinam, or of Guyana?
Is it French-Guyana or is it French-Surinam? Or it French-Guyana actually Surinam, and there are 3 Guyanas? Or is Surinam actually Dutch-Guyana?!
Are they really in South America, or are they merely alternate-universe superimposed versions of Guinea, Guinea-Bissau and Equatorial-Guinea?
Which one is the Kool Aid State? That one's team could also have the Kool Aid Man as mascot, PR slam dunk right there.
Are they the place where Guarana grows?
And why is their food basically Indonesian?

So yes, they need to get their act together, I need answers and the KOMINTERN needs 12 countries to make up 3 groups.

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Post by Nishankly on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:56 am

@S wrote:What's so terrible about having one single cup competition for the entire Americas ?

Gulf in class. South American teams will hit 10-11 every matchday.

Its the same reason why Australia is in AFC and not in OFC. Australia was hitting 25 goals a game in the OFC

The two scenarios I quoted are good imo

@Nishankly wrote:Why not something like Asia where there is a Qualifying round. Those 3 (Suriname, Guyana and Guyana Francais) and the lowest ranked LA team can do a group stage to qualify. This can be so much more comfortable and fair imo

@Nishankly wrote:
@danyjr wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:What is Qatar and Japan doing in the Copa America?
Guest nation. We always have a couple of those.


Yeah just read up, I always thought two teams from CONCACAF qualified for it.

That's how it should imo, the CONCACAF should be an year before the Copa and the two finalists should be invited for the CONEMBOL
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Post by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:56 am

@Hans and @Nish

Geographically those 3 are in south america (it goes Guyana, Suriname, F. Guyana) but culturally they are not. It doesn't help by the fact until very recently they were (or still are in the case of F. Guyana) colonies of Netherlands, England and France, so they developed away from SA.

You cannot fly there from most of SA without first going to the caribbean, north america, or europe. There is basically no connection. Panama (part is in south america) is for example much closer to us culturally. It makes more sense to include the Guyanas in concacaf over conmebol. Anyway those would be 10-0 games.


Last edited by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:00 am

@Nishankly wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@danyjr wrote:
Guest nation. We always have a couple of those.


Yeah just read up, I always thought two teams from CONCACAF qualified for it.

That's how it should imo, the CONCACAF should be an year before the Copa and the two finalists should be invited for the CONEMBOL
This just relegates the gold cup/concacaf. Why would they go for that? it's good for the Copa/conmebol, but it makes the concacaf seem a bit irrelevant. Can't really sell it to them like that.
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Post by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:02 am

Forget all that and check the Uruguay-Ecuador highlights in the GL App (tm). Lodeiro with a top performance. Uruguay is winning this whole thing.
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:08 am

Greatest goal of the bunch came from the Ecuador defender tbh.

Also, would have liked to seen a replay of that VAR red card, looked dubious

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Post by Doc on Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:38 pm

@S wrote:What's so terrible about having one single cup competition for the entire Americas ?

Could you imagine St Vincent and the Grenadines vs Uruguay? Could you imagine the cricket score the latter would put on them? Not only would that make a mockery of one of the oldest and prestigious tournaments in world football, you'll be hurting St Vincent feelings and they never did anyone anything ffs. No, CONCACAF and COMNEBOL are fine doing their own thing. And before anyone else thinks it (pls don't think it regardless), the Caribbean would never send up a West Indies version for football. We already fking struggle to like one another on a cricket field, football would just not work at all. Might as well ask the whole of Central Europe to form a team.

COMNEBOL wouldn't also invite teams that that can potentially win it but it actually would be nice to see one of the African teams come down in this part of the world. Particularly Algeria just to see how much excuses Giggity can conjure up when they get their asses handed to them (:

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Post by Nishankly on Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:11 pm

West Indies for Football i lost it lmaooooo Cricket is a hilarious sport.

Back on topic, agree with Rinc about that lowering the value of the CONCACAF. I guess we have the answer then. Guyana and Suriname get the 11th and 12th spot.

French Guyana can go play UEFA Euro Qualifiers, boot those pussy still colonized cowards out of the competition.
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Post by rincon on Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:47 pm

I don't see the point. Much rather invite Japan or (full strength) Mexico than beat Guyana 10-0. I'm sure that Suriname would rather play Curacao than sign a historic loss vs Brazil.

You are trying to find a solution to a "problem" that doesn't exist. The Copa America is good as it is, and the Guyanas fit better with North America/Caribbean than they do with South America.

The real problem is the messy organization of conmebol with the timing of the tournament. So we get weird years for the tournaments (there is one next yer again). Hopefully with the switch next year it becomes stable in the 2020, 24, 28 schedule.
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Post by Nishankly on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:07 pm

The problem I see is inviting non American or non LATAM nations to a International Continental competition imho, it kinda ruins the entire value of it. I am quite sure there is a workaround inviting only from the CONCACAF.

We'll see this when a team like Japan or someone like Qatar actually do some major damage or win it.


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Post by Doc on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:47 pm

It's fine imo. Those teams, unless they happen to pull off miracle upon miracle usually bow out in the GS or get beaten by a superior SA team eventually. As long as I could remember, they rarely invite teams that would trouble the major teams there.

But I see why folks would think this undermines the competition. Been following Copa America since I were small and I never really had an issue. The timing of the tournament was always wonky though.

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:38 pm

@S wrote:What's so terrible about having one single cup competition for the entire Americas ?
Nothing terrible about it, but the Copa America is a CONMEBOL trophy, not a CONCACAF+CONMEBOL one. It's like you asking "What's so terrible about having one single cup competition for all of Eurasia?"

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Post by Perucho21 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:48 pm

I think people forget that the copa America is one of the oldest international tournaments in the world with plenty if prestige. I honestly believe that CONMEBOL won't ever consider a merger with CONCACAF. Special tournaments like 2016 could still happen (for monetary purposes) but i dont think itll ever be official. Also let's be real, I only see Mexico as the only concacaf country that can compete with the best of conmebol.

I do not see an issue with the Asian invitees. Like I said Mexico and other CONCACAF nations have been sending their amateur teams in recent editions. The Asian teams bring their best available thus increasing the competition. Qatar just tied Paraguay (historically one of the best defensive sides) and Japan might pull an upset tonight

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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:51 pm

@Doc wrote:It's fine imo. Those teams, unless they happen to pull off miracle upon miracle usually bow out in the GS or get beaten by a superior SA team eventually. As long as I could remember, they rarely invite teams that would trouble the major teams there.

But I see why folks would think this undermines the competition. Been following Copa America since I were small and I never really had an issue. The timing of the tournament was always wonky though.
wonky scheduling gives it a little south american flair

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Post by Young Kaz on Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:16 am

@Perucho21 wrote:I think people forget that the copa America is one of the oldest international tournaments in the world with plenty if prestige. I honestly believe that CONMEBOL won't ever consider a merger with CONCACAF. Special tournaments like 2016 could still happen (for monetary purposes) but i dont think itll ever be official. Also let's be real, I only see Mexico as the only concacaf country that can compete with the best of conmebol.

I do not see an issue with the Asian invitees. Like I said Mexico and other CONCACAF nations have been sending their amateur teams in recent editions. The Asian teams bring their best available thus increasing the competition. Qatar just tied Paraguay (historically one of the best defensive sides) and Japan might pull an upset tonight


You didnt really believe that did you? Laughing
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Post by Perucho21 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:46 am

To be fair if Japan were more clinical they could have tied the game.

Either way liked what i saw from Kubo. Wish him the best at RM Castilla.

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Post by Nishankly on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:26 am

Time to investigate Qatar's presence in this COPA IMO
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:43 am

... Is there really? Could there be any other option with the most corrupt FA and the most corrupt regional organization both being involved?

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Post by Winter is Coming on Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:55 pm

I would like Dany and BC to explain this to me


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Post by Young Kaz on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:01 pm

@Perucho21 wrote:To be fair if Japan were more clinical they could have tied the game.

Either way liked what i saw from Kubo. Wish him the best at RM Castilla.


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Kubo is money though. You'll be impressed by him if he gets minutes. Very dynamic player.
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Post by danyjr on Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:53 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:I would like Dany and BC to explain this to me

Notwithstanding Scaloni's ineptness as a coach he is stuck between two ideas. One, the formation he played when Messi was "retired", this was based on quick transition, counter attacking football. This is how he said he likes to play. Now with Messi back in the line up, we are a wide man down, we can't stretch the play like we did before and also we didn't have a strong midfield at the start of the game. In fact the centre of the pitch was all Colombia in the first half. Switching to second half, with Di María replaced by De Paul and more presence in midfield, we had periods of pressure on Colombia at the expense of having zero width. The trouble here is that quick, counter attacking teams hit us hard on the break. And this is exactly what happened vs Colombia.

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Post by iftikhar on Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:04 pm

@Doc wrote:Could you imagine St Vincent and the Grenadines vs Uruguay?

Just as Gibraltar wouldn't face Germany in the Euro, the minnows (there's so many, FFS) wouldn't face the heavyweights if there's qualification in place.

Frankly both the competition reeks of negligence and mismanagement. Copa inviting overseas teams just to make up the numbers (what's wrong with a 10-team competition???) while CONCACAF is having a comedy with Cuba et al.
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Post by rincon on Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:10 pm

What's with the insistence to make a cross continent competition? These are separate continents and separate confederations.

It's the same as merging the Asia and Eurocup or African cup.

Trying to make things worse for everyone involved.
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Post by iftikhar on Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:18 pm

BTW, @Doc enjoying the WC???
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