La Masia

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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:09 pm

3 points eventually

Maxi Rolon :bow:

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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:22 pm

A Barça fan has proposed to the club that the 20+ banned La Masia kids by FIFA should enter Camp Nou with the Barça players during a Champions League game

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/una-interesante-propuesta-para-apoyar-los-ninos-castigados-por-fifa-4584529
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Re: La Masia

Post by eelir on Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:26 pm

So the B team managed to get away from relegation zone finally. Anyone know if they have a chance for promotion?
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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:25 am

Even if they finish in top 5 there are still play offs but of course theres always a chance
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Re: La Masia

Post by Lucifer on Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:31 am

What happened to Pol cavelt seemed solid player. Was one of my favorite in career mode.
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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:44 pm

Seungwoo Lee vs Brazil

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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:40 am

Another 3 points last night. Maxi Rolon the goal scorer once again.

Current situation: 4 points off a losers playoff position and 9 points off top (winners playoffs)
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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:42 am

http://www.flashscore.com/standings/l6l6BuIk/jL16uwK7/#table;overall
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Re: La Masia

Post by free_cat on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:41 am

2 months more and Lee Seung woo will be able to play with the B. Let's hope he hasn't lost it these two years without playing.

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Re: La Masia

Post by Myesyats on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:55 pm

https://twitter.com/barcabstuff/status/671028485687812096
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Re: La Masia

Post by eelir on Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:19 pm

So by the looks of it, the transfer ban and Bart has hurt Barca B the most. Barca B is doomed for another relegation if the influx of new transfers (now that the ban is over) does nothing to change the course Barca B is heading.
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Re: La Masia

Post by futbol on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:49 am

@eelir wrote:So by the looks of it, the transfer ban and Bart has hurt Barca B the most. Barca B is doomed for another relegation if the influx of new transfers (now that the ban is over) does nothing to change the course Barca B is heading.


I don't follow the youth teams anymore. Statistically it's a waste of time. The probability that even a single world class player will come through is incredibly low. Just think about it. How many strikers are there world wide among all age groups which could be deemed good enough for Barca these days? I count 4: Suarez, Agüero, Benzema, Lewandowski. That's it.

Let's also add players from the last 10 years who were world class at some point but have declined due to age or injury: Falcao, Ibra, Eto'o, Villa, Forlan, Drogba, Rooney (bit of a stretch). Maybe I've forgotten one or two more. But the point I'm making is clear. You struggle to name 10+ strikers who could be deemed Barca class over a 10 year time span. With quite a few of them it's also questionable whether they could fit Barca's style despite being world class in other systems (Drogba, Rooney, Ibra ...).

The next bracket of strikers a level below is already not good enough: Higuain, Diego Costa, Giroud and the likes. They can't play for Barca.

So hundreds and thousands of clubs world wide managed to produce something between 4 - 10 world class strikers who could play for Barca over a ten year time span. Now once you realized this, ask yourself what are the odds that 1 single academy (La Masia) will produce a world class striker. Yeah ...

The same goes for other positions. Class centerbacks for example are even more rare than strikers. For half a decade we have to watch Mascherano still starting at the back because there is nothing better attainable.

Tl;dr: La Masia should shut down completely and use the saved money for the transfer budget. Producing Messi, Xavi, Iniesta was once in a lifetime. Won't happen again. It's a waste of money.

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Re: La Masia

Post by Lucifer on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:57 am

On contrary I would say if thousands of club can produce only handful of striker deem to be Barca quality then why not scout youngsters better and train them according to Barca style and mould them as per our structure?
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Re: La Masia

Post by futbol on Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:00 pm

Pirloisjesus wrote:On contrary I would say if thousands of club can produce only handful of striker deem to be Barca quality then why not scout youngsters better and train them according to Barca style and mould them as per our structure?


Youth scouting is a bit like playing lottery. You can't just "mould" 6 or 11 or 15 year old kids into future world beaters. I think fans underestimate how much it comes down to luck whether someone becomes a world class player or not more than anything else. Someone who looks like the next Iniesta with 16 can easily turn out completely irrelevant by the time he's 20 and that's what happens 99 out of 100 times. Random example: Espinosa.



Where is he now? Playing for Elche in the 2nd division.

Youth development is a bit like building an elite kindergarten to raise kids into future nobel prize winners. Maybe (certainly) the extra effort and investments of La Masia result in better talent production than the average youth academy which doesn't invest as much but the real gems, not the Fontases and Bartras and Tellos and Montoyas and dos Santoses, but the Xavis and Iniestas and Messi can't be just "moulded".

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Re: La Masia

Post by Lucifer on Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:40 pm

I agree its trial and error method and we are going to find error more often then not but still i think its worth it.
Besides Messi+ iniesta+Xavi= how many millions?
We have saved them. Why not invest that money instead of buying Nolitos and Negredos and Mathieus?
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Re: La Masia

Post by eelir on Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:44 pm

@futbol wrote:
@eelir wrote:So by the looks of it, the transfer ban and Bart has hurt Barca B the most. Barca B is doomed for another relegation if the influx of new transfers (now that the ban is over) does nothing to change the course Barca B is heading.


I don't follow the youth teams anymore. Statistically it's a waste of time. The probability that even a single world class player will come through is incredibly low. Just think about it. How many strikers are there world wide among all age groups which could be deemed good enough for Barca these days? I count 4: Suarez, Agüero, Benzema, Lewandowski. That's it.

Let's also add players from the last 10 years who were world class at some point but have declined due to age or injury: Falcao, Ibra, Eto'o, Villa, Forlan, Drogba, Rooney (bit of a stretch). Maybe I've forgotten one or two more. But the point I'm making is clear. You struggle to name 10+ strikers who could be deemed Barca class over a 10 year time span. With quite a few of them it's also questionable whether they could fit Barca's style despite being world class in other systems (Drogba, Rooney, Ibra ...).

The next bracket of strikers a level below is already not good enough: Higuain, Diego Costa, Giroud and the likes. They can't play for Barca.

So hundreds and thousands of clubs world wide managed to produce something between 4 - 10 world class strikers who could play for Barca over a ten year time span. Now once you realized this, ask yourself what are the odds that 1 single academy (La Masia) will produce a world class striker. Yeah ...

The same goes for other positions. Class centerbacks for example are even more rare than strikers. For half a decade we have to watch Mascherano still starting at the back because there is nothing better attainable.

Tl;dr: La Masia should shut down completely and use the saved money for the transfer budget. Producing Messi, Xavi, Iniesta was once in a lifetime. Won't happen again. It's a waste of money.


Every once in a while a Buquets or Valdes comes a way. So I am fine with that. The most recent was Thiago which management managed to screw up with Cesc (another example of Massia, thought not 100%). And a bit rarely an Iniesta or Xavi comes. So all in all, it is a good deal.

If we factor players like Pedro, Munir and S. Roberto (who by the looks of it is a great utility player that has potential to be a starter some day) which save us stupid risky transfers for depth (as we know how good they are and that they are trained to fit the system), I think Massia is worth it every penny.
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Re: La Masia

Post by Kick on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:19 am

@futbol wrote:
Pirloisjesus wrote:On contrary I would say if thousands of club can produce only handful of striker deem to be Barca quality then why not scout youngsters better and train them according to Barca style and mould them as per our structure?


Youth scouting is a bit like playing lottery. You can't just "mould" 6 or 11 or 15 year old kids into future world beaters. I think fans underestimate how much it comes down to luck whether someone becomes a world class player or not more than anything else. Someone who looks like the next Iniesta with 16 can easily turn out completely irrelevant by the time he's 20 and that's what happens 99 out of 100 times. Random example: Espinosa.



Where is he now? Playing for Elche in the 2nd division.

Youth development is a bit like building an elite kindergarten to raise kids into future nobel prize winners. Maybe (certainly) the extra effort and investments of La Masia result in better talent production than the average youth academy which doesn't invest as much but the real gems, not the Fontases and Bartras and Tellos and Montoyas and dos Santoses, but the Xavis and Iniestas and Messi can't be just "moulded".


I'm sorry but what? Luck hardly factors, it's about the player, and whether they have the ability, determination, persistance and right people around them to guide them. It's not lucky.

But hey, keep thinking you should close La Masia Laughing

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Re: La Masia

Post by futbol on Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:39 am

Luck in terms of clubs producing world class players, not from the players' point of view. Obviously you need to have the ability as a player but for the clubs it's basically impossible to predict who will become an adequate first team player and who won't. The club can go and poach the biggest gem of a local youth tournament who looks like Messi with 13 yet most of these talents still fail to make the step up, no matter how great they look at that age. It's more or less trial and error. Buying thousands and thousands of youth players until something sticks.

I'm only semi-serious regarding "closing down Masia" but I wouldn't be surprised if running La Masia isn't profitable at all compared to investing the money in more proven, 20-ish year old talents like Isco, Zouma, Hazard (when he was still a talent in France), Neymar, Götze etc.

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Re: La Masia

Post by free_cat on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:02 am

La Masia invests around 25 milions per year, and produces around 2 players per season for the first team. 12,5 milion per player, at current costs, is a more than good enough return, considering that their avergae value is easily above 12,5 milion.

Busted.

Problem is when you have a coach that doesn't use la Masia and a board that clearly treats it as futbol wants, instead of caring for its talent as it was under Laporta. Then we might as well shut it, I agree.


Last edited by free_cat on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: La Masia

Post by free_cat on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:14 am

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3mslo0_highlights-juvenil-a-liga-fc-barcelona-cornella-0-0_sport

Lee Seung woo made his debut with Juvenil A, let's see if 2 years of barely playing has rekt him or not.

Juvenil A is in poor state. They are 4th in the league and lack quality. I only really like Carles Aleñá, Dani Morer and hopefully Lee.

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Re: La Masia

Post by futbol on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:15 am

€ 25M, wow. I expected something like € 15M at most. Total waste then to run La Masia. Imagine what additional € 75M every 3 years buys you in terms of proven talent.

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Re: La Masia

Post by free_cat on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:23 am

@futbol wrote:€ 25M, wow. I expected something like € 15M at most. Total waste then to run La Masia. Imagine what additional € 75M every 3 years buys you in terms of proven talent.


2.2 Arda Turans?

In the same period, you can get 1 Thiagos, 2 Munirs, 1 Roberto, 2 Tellos and 1 Bartra. That, not caring much.


Last edited by free_cat on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: La Masia

Post by futbol on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:26 am

I take 1 Suarez over those scrubs any day of the week.

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Re: La Masia

Post by free_cat on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:27 pm

If it was that easy every club would win the CL. Let me rephrase this: if it was this simple, the richest club would win their league and the CL always.

Thing is, when you pay 80 milion € you are never 100% sure you'll get a Suarez or a De Bruyne.

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Re: La Masia

Post by eelir on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:03 pm

@free_cat wrote:If it was that easy every club would win the CL. Let me rephrase this: if it was this simple, the richest club would win their league and the CL always.

Thing is, when you pay 80 milion € you are never 100% sure you'll get a Suarez or a De Bruyne.


Exactly! But factor in depth signings, which Massia has been so good at? For Barca you need at least 10-20 mil for a backup player. And so far we are getting 2 of those every year. The worse case it evens out with a chance of every 5-10 years of getting a real gem.

PS. Selling Masia players that are not Barca's quality has been done wrongly in my opinion. Now if the management can get slightly better at that, we can actually make some decent money out of Massia.
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Re: La Masia

Post by futbol on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:43 pm

But Masia hasn't really produced a lot of good depth players apart from Sergi Roberto.

Montoya was useless and I doubt we'll get even € 3M for him after his loan spell at Inter. A rightback definitely had to be bought (Vidal).

Munir did fine against Espanyol for the first time in ages but apart from that him and Sandro aren't the type of player you want to rely on upfront when Messi and Suarez are unavailable (which is the case now against Athletic Bilbao for example) which is why the coach demands Nolito.

Tello ... I can't even grasp how an academy that prides itself to produce technical players can produce such a 1-dimension speed merchant. He's linked with a loan move to Fiorentina these days. Will hardly get any money for him either after endless loan spells.

Jonathan dos Santos. Already forgotten that he ever existed.

Bartra is semi useful against bottom table teams but even then the coach prefers Vermaelen and Mathieu who are far from being world beaters and the club seems to be extensively scouting Stones. Barca's interest in Marquinhos about a year ago is also nothing new. Which says a lot about Bartra's level if he can't get past Vermaelen and Mathieu and the club is looking for a young centerback talent.

Masip. His existence is pointless.

Did I forget someone? Roberto is truly the only player who contributes. The rest doesn't contribute and isn't sellable for much. On top of that half the B team players' contracts got rescinded after showing relegation form for 2 seasons straight. Seems a huge waste of money to invest € 25M every year only to end up with a Sergi Roberto and Bartra every few years (I'm of course insinuating that we won't see another Messi, Xavi, Iniesta coming through Masia for at least another 20 years or so, maybe longer).

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