Raphael Varane

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:52 pm

He will learn more on the bench at Madrid than being loaned out imo

He will get ample playing time. If a player as bad as Albiol can get over 32 games at Madrid last season this kid can do alot better, especially if Lass ends up leaving as he can play DM as well.

Not to mention learning from players like Ramos, Carvalho and Pepe. He won't get that experience anywhere else

Seriously people

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:57 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I doubt it, especially with Mourinho as coach.

But I seriously and sincerely hope so, a year on the bench will do nothing for him and he looks a talent, it doesnt need to be wasted.

well, mourinho is in charge, and mourinho signed him.

mourinho is trying something different maybe? we havent really been after the type of mercenaries he signs to win and then leave, have we?

my bet is that he is trying to settle, otherwise there is no point signing so many young player.

Do we know Mou signed him?

Wasnt it Zidane who recommended him and then he was signed.

It doesnt seem like Mou chose him and that was that.

But yeah, lets see what happens, Mou's history tells us differently though.

Pepe, Carvalho, Ramos, Raul Albiol...in that order...all 4 of them will play centerback in a game of any importance before Varane does, regardless of how good the kid is. Thats what I think.

zidane also recommended hazard, mourinho didnt care.

we scouted him for the whole second part of the season, and frankly for mourinho to give the ok on a 18 yo defender means lot, it's almost like Fergie, he knows defense.

and yeah, mourinho signed him, there are 4 people talking shop in madrid right now, Mou, Perez and his advisor zizou, and Sanchez, probably some aides we dont know, but mou is like 75% of the decision imo. There is no way they are shoving players down his throat like they did Valdano.

He just gained a ridiculous amount of power in madrid

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:57 pm

@Guiltybystander wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
omarish wrote:This could go bad or good. But remember that Carvalho is old and he is replaceable. So the spot for him is open, only his experience that is blocking it. I think he will bench 1 year and then start or something.

How is he going to get experience on the bench?

What will he learn spending a year on the bench?

Nothing.

Players dont get better sitting and watching from the bench, they get better (more experienced) playing in games.

Cryface, youth talents are benched first too. What does it matter? He has time.
Only players with the wrong mentality rot away on the bench in this Madrid, he will either be loaned or he'll get his chance.

I will say this in the least disrespectful way as possible.

Your clueless if you think spending a year on the bench "doesnt matter" because he has "time", utterly clueless.

Only players with the wrong mentality rot on the bench?

Thats it, blame anyone other then your club.



I said Madrid was morally wrong! And I have judged their careless disregard of young players all the time.

You ignored my earlier post on the matter so I shall repeat:
- He will get money. What if he gets a career ending injury? Proves not to be that talented at all? He will have his millions.
- He will get the chance to train/play with the best, and will have arguably the best coach of the era assisting him in his development.
- His name is set.

If he fails, he has lost a year. He will still only be 19, an age where many players haven't even debuted in first teams. If he succeeds, he has gold in his hands.

In that sense, yes, it is only a year.

And it is true that Mourinho has shown this year that he does give youngsters a chance. Pedro Leon and consequently also Canales didn't show the right mentality (complaining etc.), thus BENCH. And the latter might even get another chance.


I ignored your post because nearly all of it I disagreed with and I knew saying so would lead to a big debate which I have no interest in.

career ending injury? No player thinks like this...especially not a 18 year old. You dont sign for a big team based on the chance you career might be over soon due to injury.

train/play with the best? He wont play, thats my point, so lets go with train.

Playing week in week out in Ligue 1 > training with any club.

Losing a year isnt something you can just shrug off. What if that year on the bench destroys his confidence?

Or what if because he hardly plays, the rare times he does play, we will overcompensate and try and do too much to prove himself?

Its Canales fault he didnt play? Seriously..your going to claim that?

You amaze me seriously. You expect players to come, not play and not complain about it and then complain because they are complaining?

Canales started moaning because he wasnt playing (and to be honest, he wasnt moaning that much), not he was moaning and therefore didnt play. Dont get it twisted.








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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:00 pm


Oh come on.

You dont learn anything on the bench, nobody ever has and nobody ever will.

You get better by playing, not watching.



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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:01 pm

Nick, interesting to read. But I will stick to what I said, those 4 guys will play in a game of any importance before Varane does, thats what my guess is.
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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:04 pm

from the small chatters tha tcame out of the club, canales wasnt exactly training up to mourinho's standards... dunno if it justifies why he got buried on the bench, but it's part of it.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:04 pm

It's funny how people ignore my post

In any case back to Canales he was given an option at the start of the year to stay or to go back out on loan. He was told that tsaying he would not get much opportunity to play. He chose to stay this was widely reported at the start of the season.

Then even though he knew exactly what was going to happen he started complaining.

What is Madrid going to do? Give playing time to Canales over who exactly?

Ozil? Di Maria? Ronaldo? Seriously?

Leon never worked hard in training, talked back to the coach and claimed he should be a starter. That spelt the end of his playing time at Madrid.

Some people on this forum need to get their heads plugged back into reality seriously.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by barca 2011 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:06 pm

How many Madrid fans have actually seen him play, aside from youtube vids?

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:06 pm

I JUST REALIZED! You sound an awful lot like.... BARCELONAVANDALI!

The jigsaw falls into place.

Anyway,

If players don't take injuries into account, they also don't take into account possibly losing their confidence on the bench.

And it does help a lot when you are an 18 year old to train with the best.
Look at your own team.

Canales had an absurd amount of competition which of course hindered his playing chances more than his behaviour, but I do not excuse a bad attitude EVER. If you are a 19 year old boy and you have Kaka, Ronaldo, Di Maria and Ozil ahead of you, you do not complain. You are happy to be on the bench and make bank. Mourinho thinks the same. He can now leave and still be young enough and go to another big club with a lot of experience under his belt or stay and try it for another season. Will that kill his career? No.


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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:07 pm

@Crimson wrote:It's funny how people ignore my post

In any case back to Canales he was given an option at the start of the year to stay or to go back out on loan. He was told that tsaying he would not get much opportunity to play. He chose to stay this was widely reported at the start of the season.

Then even though he knew exactly what was going to happen he started complaining.

What is Madrid going to do? Give playing time to Canales over who exactly?

Ozil? Di Maria? Ronaldo? Seriously?

Leon never worked hard in training, talked back to the coach and claimed he should be a starter. That spelt the end of his playing time at Madrid.

Some people on this forum need to get their heads plugged back into reality seriously.

Agreed 100 percent.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:08 pm

@barca 2011 wrote:How many Madrid fans have actually seen him play, aside from youtube vids?

i watch the ligue 1 so i have

why are you asking?

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:09 pm

@barca 2011 wrote:How many Madrid fans have actually seen him play, aside from youtube vids?

I watched Ligue 1 and 2 last year pretty extensively why?

He's better than Albiololololololol

If you can stand out as a CB in one of the most defensive leagues in Europe, then that should say something imo.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:10 pm

Poor Albiol isn't that bad!

And I watch Ligue 1 once in a while, but I can't say I am a Varane expert, because I've maybe seen him play 3 matches.
That is why I never really said anything about his merits on this forum.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:12 pm

@Guiltybystander wrote:Poor Albiol isn't that bad!

Not that bad, but not that good either

On his day he can have a decent game, but most of the time he's a liability.....

If Garay had never got injured at the start of the season I think his 32 games would of gone to him in all honesty.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:13 pm

SMH

Like talking to a brick wall it is, really.

Canales....had Kaka, Ozil, Di Maria, Cristiano in his way.

Varane....has Ramos, Pepe, Carvalho, Abiol in his way.

Its Canales fault for complaining apparently.

Seems to me like what is Canales' fault is for going in the first place (like everyone said he shouldnt) and Madrid fault for buying in the first place.

But yeah, its outrageous for one to draw the conclusion that Varane probably wont play next year and the better career move for him was to wait in Ligue 1 and get regular minutes there for at least more then the 25 games he has played so far.



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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:17 pm

@Crimson wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:Poor Albiol isn't that bad!

Not that bad, but not that good either

On his day he can have a decent game, but most of the time he's a liability.....

If Garay had never got injured at the start of the season I think his 32 games would of gone to him in all honesty.

Probably true - I have been thinking btw, could Albiol possibly work as a DM? He has played as a DM in the past, and he has the features for a decent DM...




Also, Franchise, are you BarcaVandali?
:flower:


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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:17 pm

Crimson has a point, nobody forced Canales to stay, he was just about as responsible of staying as the club welcoming him, he had the choice on the table and he chose to stay.

When the season started, given in the first couple of months there was little rotation, but his work rate in training dropped quite a bit, and mourinho was upset about his work ethic and made a comment about it in press conference.

You cant ignore the fact that he wasnt exactly putting the same effort as Grnaero for example, who played quite a lot actually. As opposed to Canales, he was applauded fr his work ethic and rewarded for it.

Every sub and rotation player we had was praised one way or the other for their contribution.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Magricos on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:18 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I doubt it, especially with Mourinho as coach.

But I seriously and sincerely hope so, a year on the bench will do nothing for him and he looks a talent, it doesnt need to be wasted.

well, mourinho is in charge, and mourinho signed him.

mourinho is trying something different maybe? we havent really been after the type of mercenaries he signs to win and then leave, have we?

my bet is that he is trying to settle, otherwise there is no point signing so many young player.

Do we know Mou signed him?

Wasnt it Zidane who recommended him and then he was signed.

It doesnt seem like Mou chose him and that was that.

But yeah, lets see what happens, Mou's history tells us differently though.

Pepe, Carvalho, Ramos, Raul Albiol...in that order...all 4 of them will play centerback in a game of any importance before Varane does, regardless of how good the kid is. Thats what I think.


Lmao it was Mou who persuaded Madrid to buy him after Zidane recommended him.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:22 pm

@Magricos wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:I doubt it, especially with Mourinho as coach.

But I seriously and sincerely hope so, a year on the bench will do nothing for him and he looks a talent, it doesnt need to be wasted.

well, mourinho is in charge, and mourinho signed him.

mourinho is trying something different maybe? we havent really been after the type of mercenaries he signs to win and then leave, have we?

my bet is that he is trying to settle, otherwise there is no point signing so many young player.

Do we know Mou signed him?

Wasnt it Zidane who recommended him and then he was signed.

It doesnt seem like Mou chose him and that was that.

But yeah, lets see what happens, Mou's history tells us differently though.

Pepe, Carvalho, Ramos, Raul Albiol...in that order...all 4 of them will play centerback in a game of any importance before Varane does, regardless of how good the kid is. Thats what I think.


Lmao it was Mou who persuaded Madrid to buy him after Zidane recommended him.

Oh hahaha, I didn't even notice that. As if Zidane has any voice is who gets bought or not. He can recommend not decide.

And I also agree with everything Nick said.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:28 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Crimson has a point, nobody forced Canales to stay, he was just about as responsible of staying as the club welcoming him, he had the choice on the table and he chose to stay.

When the season started, given in the first couple of months there was little rotation, but his work rate in training dropped quite a bit, and mourinho was upset about his work ethic and made a comment about it in press conference.

You cant ignore the fact that he wasnt exactly putting the same effort as Grnaero for example, who played quite a lot actually. As opposed to Canales, he was applauded fr his work ethic and rewarded for it.

Every sub and rotation player we had was praised one way or the other for their contribution.

Yeah, but noone is saying Canales its Madrid fault for that.

My entire point here is individual players. Its Canales fault for going in the first place.

He was never going to win a place, everyone knew that, it was obvious.

Sure, maybe he could of worked harder or whatever, but if he actually was playing games you would probably find he works harder. Not playing people who are used to playing, generally has a negative effect.

Canales is a fool for going, that my point. Madrid made a mistake in buying him in the first place (at the time they did) because this was pretty much inevitable.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by barca 2011 on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:29 pm

I guess he's got 2 goals in 23 matches, (wiki) which for a defender his age aint too bad.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:31 pm

@Guiltybystander wrote:




Also, Franchise, are you BarcaVandali?
:flower:


Nah, duno who that is.
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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:33 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:




Also, Franchise, are you BarcaVandali?
:flower:


Nah, duno who that is.

Noooo! That cannot be! Then you must be Jopsi!
I feel like I have had pointless discussions with a person like you on the other goal.com...


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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by The Franchise on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:50 pm

@Guiltybystander wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:




Also, Franchise, are you BarcaVandali?
:flower:


Nah, duno who that is.

Noooo! That cannot be! Then you must be Jopsi!
I feel like I have had pointless discussions with a person like you on the other goal.com...


Sounds like your the common factor on all of those pointless discussions, interesting that.
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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Guiltybystander on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:54 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
@Guiltybystander wrote:




Also, Franchise, are you BarcaVandali?
:flower:


Nah, duno who that is.

Noooo! That cannot be! Then you must be Jopsi!
I feel like I have had pointless discussions with a person like you on the other goal.com...


Sounds like your the common factor on all of those pointless discussions, interesting that.

Nah, I am generally quite constructive and add variation to my arguments.

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Re: Raphael Varane

Post by Albiceleste on Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:05 pm

@The Franchise wrote:SMH

Like talking to a brick wall it is, really.




Spot on.

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