Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by donttreadonred on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:26 pm

Anyone else think that Spain's team selection looked like a 10 year-old selecting a team on Fifa? "These players are good. I'll play all of them at once."

In all seriousness, they seemed to have many of the same problems that Barca did against Chelsea in the Champions League. For long stretches, they enjoyed controlled pressure just outside of Spain's box. However, they lacked the incisive movement of a traditional striker, or even a wide-forward, to create real goal-scoring chances. Normally, when you use a false9, you also employ at least one wide-forward who has an eye for goal. Barca typically use David Villa (when fit), Pedro and Alexis Sanchez to fill this role. That way, when Messi receives the ball in deeper positions, he has someone making the incisive runs that he can play the ball to for a chance. Without a real goal-scorer, you run the risk of becoming complacent and focused on keeping possession.

Luckily for VDB, he's got two more games in the group stages to play around with the formation before the knockout stages. Italy, on the other hand, showed that they are capable of competing with the favorites in the tournament. Granted, VDB (aka: "How many midfielders did I bring to Poland?" and "I wonder if Fabregas can play goal.") played right into their 3-at-the-back system. It will be interesting to see how Italy cope with real wide players against Croatia and Ireland. I would still be shocked if they didn't make it to the knockout stages.

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Cookie Monster on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:26 pm

Giacherrini failing to follow Fabregas' run :facepalm: A defensive masterclass ruined by one retard's stupid mistake.

DDR was unbelievable. Buffon, Pirlo, Marchisio, and Chiellini also played well. Cassano always looked like our most dangerous player. Balotelli showed both his skill and his stupidity today.

Iniesta, Iker, and Silva were impressive for Spain.

Best match of the tourney so far.
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Cotes on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:29 pm

@Cookie Monster wrote:Giacherrini failing to follow Fabregas' run :facepalm: A defensive masterclass ruined by one retard's stupid mistake.

DDR was unbelievable. Buffon, Pirlo, Marchisio, and Chiellini also played well. Cassano always looked like our most dangerous player. Balotelli showed both his skill and his stupidity today.

Iniesta, Iker, and Silva were impressive for Spain.

Best match of the tourney so far.

don't blame the little man..
He did great & manage to hold out for the 90 mins!
That move could've been broken up long before it got there...
Italy has a mentally to switch off when they score & that is what came back & bit them in the rectum!

The man's first appearance for Italy came against the European & World Champions to play a make shift role.
Give the man a break...

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Cookie Monster on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:31 pm

@Cotes wrote:
@Cookie Monster wrote:Giacherrini failing to follow Fabregas' run :facepalm: A defensive masterclass ruined by one retard's stupid mistake.

DDR was unbelievable. Buffon, Pirlo, Marchisio, and Chiellini also played well. Cassano always looked like our most dangerous player. Balotelli showed both his skill and his stupidity today.

Iniesta, Iker, and Silva were impressive for Spain.

Best match of the tourney so far.

don't blame the little man..
He did great & manage to hold out for the 90 mins!
That move could've been broken up long before it got there...
Italy has a mentally to switch off when they score & that is what came back & bit them in the rectum!

Why shouldn't he be blamed for that mistake? He started tracking the run and then got lazy and didn't follow through. He deserves all the blame in the world for that.
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Onyx on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:33 pm

@donttreadonred wrote:Anyone else think that Spain's team selection looked like a 10 year-old selecting a team on Fifa? "These players are good. I'll play all of them at once."

In all seriousness, they seemed to have many of the same problems that Barca did against Chelsea in the Champions League. For long stretches, they enjoyed controlled pressure just outside of Spain's box. However, they lacked the incisive movement of a traditional striker, or even a wide-forward, to create real goal-scoring chances. Normally, when you use a false9, you also employ at least one wide-forward who has an eye for goal. Barca typically use David Villa (when fit), Pedro and Alexis Sanchez to fill this role. That way, when Messi receives the ball in deeper positions, he has someone making the incisive runs that he can play the ball to for a chance. Without a real goal-scorer, you run the risk of becoming complacent and focused on keeping possession.

Luckily for VDB, he's got two more games in the group stages to play around with the formation before the knockout stages. Italy, on the other hand, showed that they are capable of competing with the favorites in the tournament. Granted, VDB (aka: "How many midfielders did I bring to Poland?" and "I wonder if Fabregas can play goal.") played right into their 3-at-the-back system. It will be interesting to see how Italy cope with real wide players against Croatia and Ireland. I would still be shocked if they didn't make it to the knockout stages.

Nah, none of them had pace. Razz

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Gomez83 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:33 pm

I don't know what you guys are on about with Xavi, created so many plays throughout the match, flops in my opinion were D. Silva despite making the assist he failed to shoot in the box three times and the obvious Torres who did nothing the whole match but lose the ball.
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Dante on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Excellent game , bravo to both teams . Class all over the pitch . First half only missed the goal , 2nd was a bit less tactical as expected , but was more intense and entertaining , especialy after Di Natale's goal .

Di Natale proved once again why in Italy is considered one of the best finishers in the world , first touch & goal . Fantastic stuff.

The 3-5-2 did it's job for Italy , even though , imo they shouldn't keep it ; it was meant to deal with Spain's possesion football and along with the pressing the Italians did , they got it right ,

and they even managed to benefit some chances for pressing and Spain's eventual lost possesion . To specify , not that they had any chances to out pass Spain's general possesion football , just to disturbe it enough to stop them dominating the game and winning in the end , which they did.

Hat's off to Italy really , but against teams which won't play so much with the ball and Italy might have the upper hand , let's say against Croatia , their build up play will get complicated .

Spain , well , Fabregas role worked , despite him missing some chances in the 1st half , nevertheless he brought the goal , and as i thought , De Rossi would be a bit out of position for this to happen (Giaccherini was at fault too).

Despite that though , De Rossi gave a fine performance none the less , especially in the 1st half when Spain's attack was way more fresh and with Silva on his day . Xavi , Casillas , Silva and Iniesta , were very good . I don't agree Xavi didn't have a good day , maybe not his best , but certainly not one of his worst . Also , their combinations were once again , just brilliant , though they could do a bit better in the first half , but again , Italy played a very well organised game , both in the middle and in defence.

Not much more to say about Spain , their play and possesion football is always a pleasure to watch , (at least for me it is).


P.S : Honourable mentions to the goalkeepers ,

Buffon's confidence and anticipation and Casillas' calmness and reflects place them at monumental levels .

They both on the field were like.. Not even mad + not bad + bitch please + challenge accepted . Soo much class ..

That they are Goats is the least i can say for these two captains .

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by urbaNRoots on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:44 pm

VdB: "We prefer a pitch that allows us to play quick passes, we would have preferred if the field was watered, but we're used to this."

Post-match comment. Neutral
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by C.Marchisio #8 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:46 pm

DDR was good but he was out of position when Spain scored.He was without man and that the cost that he payed because he aint CB but his overall game was good for playing out of position

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Adit on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:53 pm

I thought the pitch was bad,all players struggled to control ball.

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by zarola on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:57 pm

game was all giaccherini's fault, but I could've told you that before it even started.

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Cookie Monster on Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:05 pm

@C.Marchisio #8 wrote:DDR was good but he was out of position when Spain scored.He was without man and that the cost that he payed because he aint CB but his overall game was good for playing out of position

He was positioned correctly when Spain scored. Chiellini drifted forward to close down the space when he saw Giacherrini track Fabregas' run. Unfortunately, Giacherrini is an imbecile and didn't follow through with his run leaving Chiellini out of position and Fabregas free in the box.
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Swanhends on Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:40 pm

Thought Xavi was great for Spain, Pirlo great for Italy

Also thought Torres played real well so I guess I was watching a different game than the rest of you

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by EarlyPrototype on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:04 pm

Nah Torres was crap.

When Cesc started everyone complained about the lack of a striker.
Torres came on for what exactly? a couple nice turns and a couple decent passes? 5 world class mids already on the pitch.
Spain needed a goal and he f*cked up their two best chances.
Don't let one dribble deceive you.

Pirlo and Iniesta bossed it though.
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by red&blacklegion on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:11 pm

Cassano :bow: :bow:

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by windkick on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:59 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:Nah Torres was crap.

When Cesc started everyone complained about the lack of a striker.
Torres came on for what exactly? a couple nice turns and a couple decent passes? 5 world class mids already on the pitch.
Spain needed a goal and he f*cked up their two best chances.
Don't let one dribble deceive you.

Pirlo and Iniesta bossed it though.

What's funny is that Torres is more than likely going to complain later on that he didn't get to start. He is lucky to even still be considered given that he has done nothing to warrant a spot on the NT anymore

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by BarcaLearning on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:05 pm

Well as much as we all hate to see 2 DMs from Spain, I understand the reason, Spains defense needs protection, and the whole game is based on possession so u sorta need midfielders there to play the pass and be available, and for the assurance which seems to be the theme for most NT teams? Its obvious though Xavi+Alonso+Busquets isnt ideal but I doubt that gonna change. But I thought looking at the Italian setup and vs some teams Del Bosque needs to take more risk than to play them 3 all the time...

I gathered Del Bosque arent the greatest tactician though, I thought Italy really well to counter, they played 3 CB, 5 in a line in front, crowding the danger zone. And its pretty shocking how similar Spain is still compared with the WC, still the same players, Silva did better this game than the WC game, but eventually got subbed by Navas again who did great when he came on again, although Im pretty sure Silva will still start next game...since he did provide that great assist just b4 the sub.... Ramos + Pique arent looking great....

As for Torres his finishing was poor, meh, I thought he got over that lool....but the difference is, his pace and physique allowed him to create those chances ,not sure if Llorente and Negredo would have? But if Torres continues this, the other 2 will be given chances Razz

Saw Ireland and Croatia, Spain should be able to beat them comfortably and top the group!
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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Swanhends on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:09 pm

he missed one chance where buffon did very well but he was always threatening and got into dangerous goalscoring positions repeatedly...he played a good game just needs to finiah

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by TrezeGent on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:11 pm

Just saw this


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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Die Borussen on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:12 pm

torres>lorente>negredo

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by JespSwe on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:12 pm

BhritanniaBhlue wrote:he missed one chance where buffon did very well but he was always threatening and got into dangerous goalscoring positions repeatedly...he played a good game just needs to finiah

thats been his problem for so long now... torres. he did good but maybe not enough.

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by JespSwe on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:18 pm

thought it was a magnificent game played by both sides. also thought prandelli decision to revert to 3-5-2 was right idea, also with de rossi as CB he was amazing. just felt, italy needs a bit of polishing in their passing game and buildup play, because lot of passing they gave away for spain for scoring opportunity. otherwise i just felt italy played a very disciplined game given that how bad they were just 2 years ago. its a start.

it was so hilarious to see balotelli mess up lol.... hahaha what was he thinking??? di natale :bow:
love to see more giovinco, and nocerino, abate playing. i just think italy has still lot of hard work to do. they can just breathe sigh of relief for holding spain...


for spain im not their fan but my only problem with them was not bringing soldado.

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by dronte on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:35 pm

deadrave wrote:torres>lorente>negredo
Soldado > the others..

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Cotes on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:38 pm

I ain't gonna lie...
Torres did really well...
Ppl will argue that he should've score the 1 Vs 1, but Buffon is no joke keeper...

He seems to be the only smart keep that see if a player cut away from them & they go in with their hand, only 2 options are there & none of which are good for him.
1. He give away a penalty
2. He over-commits & get beaten & leave the goal unprotected!

Torres got in space really well...
I'd sign him for Juve to be real!

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by Swanhends on Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:00 pm

@JespSwe wrote:
BhritanniaBhlue wrote:he missed one chance where buffon did very well but he was always threatening and got into dangerous goalscoring positions repeatedly...he played a good game just needs to finiah

thats been his problem for so long now... torres. he did good but maybe not enough.

I disagree....what I saw of Torres during last season was that he wasnt even getting in to good positions not at all like today when he played with purpose and made good runs

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Re: Group C: Spain vs Italy discussion

Post by LeBéninois on Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:19 pm

@urbaNRoots wrote:
@pUsHa wrote:You guys are just a bunch of fking retards lol .... What did Torres do wrong lol !?!?!?!? First ocassion Buffon did a wonderful job and didnt fall on the ground like any other goalie would do .... and the second chance was that chip ... he had two defenders in his face and Buffon was coming out of the goal , he did great taking down one defender to create that chip wich was a little bit unlucky .... would Negredo and Lorrente come in and create those chances themselves or would they expect to get served , ffs the hate with torres is strong here .

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