Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by fatman123 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:52 am

:facepalm: its just as likely Denmark and Sweeden would fix a result as it is Celtic and Rangers would fix a result ffs, this rivalry means more to them then eliminating Italy, honestly i think just getting out of the group was a big acheivment for these teams and was probably their main goal of the competition, I doubt that they cared who they played in the elimination rounds

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by dostoevsky on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:49 am

Germany-Austria in 1982 was truly ridiculous, though it's not a fair comparison because 0-0 was the desirable result in that game, where as Denmark-Sweden had to involve an attacking game. I remember being unimpressed with the goalkeepers in that match, however it was a long time ago and I'm not going to pretend I have a great memory of the incidents, though I do remember being thankful to Tomasson at least for looking like one of the few players trying to go for a win at the death.

Frankly, we put ourselves in that situation in 2004 and we've done it again, we can only blame ourselves. I'm only concerned with the Ireland match though, there's no point worrying about things outside of our control. It's more likely that we fail to beat Ireland than Spain fail to beat Croatia there's no point searching for excuses before the games are even played.
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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by Ion Creanga on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:37 am

@fatman123 wrote::facepalm: its just as likely Denmark and Sweeden would fix a result as it is Celtic and Rangers would fix a result ffs, this rivalry means more to them then eliminating Italy, honestly i think just getting out of the group was a big acheivment for these teams and was probably their main goal of the competition, I doubt that they cared who they played in the elimination rounds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNX-sebbxEA&feature=related

look at the last goal.. either it was a fixed match or Denmarks's goalkeeper has a big handicap.

Anyway, Italy it's responsible for this situation.
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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:06 am

look at the first goal, either it was fixed or Swedish keeper is a handicap, look at the game in 2007(??) either it was fixed or both Mellberg and that Denmark defender are handicaps(because they slipped to allow 1v1) what a poor argument smfh
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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by JespSwe on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:26 pm

been reading article that bilic was absolutely furious when italian newspaper claim they are conspiring a draw with spain. when bilic said his country play for pride and dignity, thats just absolutely honorable and well said by him and i believe in bilic, that man makes his team play with huge pride and honour for his country really.... Croatians would never settle for draw just to get italians out. if it happens it will happen fairly i am convinced by that.

so even i support italians atm in euro, these italian newspapers and media they need to stfu really. italians have put themselves in this position so its their only fault, no one else.

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by Adit on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:28 pm

Italian newspapers are rally scared lol

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by JespSwe on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:32 pm

@Adit wrote:Italian newspapers are rally scared lol

they are sometimes bunch of idiots. when italy were loosing so badly in friendly, these italian media and newspaper absolutely butchered prandelli with his tactics and asked to play juve tactics of 3-5-2 because of lot of juve players featuring in that tactics. and actually prandelli played with that in euro.

and now they are not happy again...

they blame croatians , spanish now, ... what worse they accuse prandelli their own azzurri leader. just f...kin let him work in peace....


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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by Tifoso Romanista on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:21 pm

Bye bye stupid Poland and you blind supporters banana

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by Luca on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:27 pm

@JespSwe wrote:
@Adit wrote:Italian newspapers are rally scared lol

they are sometimes bunch of idiots. when italy were loosing so badly in friendly, these italian media and newspaper absolutely butchered prandelli with his tactics and asked to play juve tactics of 3-5-2 because of lot of juve players featuring in that tactics. and actually prandelli played with that in euro.

and now they are not happy again...

they blame croatians , spanish now, ... what worse they accuse prandelli their own azzurri leader. just f...kin let him work in peace....


Russia butchered Prandelli's tactics, that's what made him change
Although, the change is a little difficult to consider.

The 3-5-2 is better than the 4-3-1-2 which was preferred by Prandelli in qualifying/friendlies leading up to the tournament.

4-3-1-2 has Montolivo as a trequartista, which he fails as.
3-5-2 does not, this is the best thing.

But, with Criscito left at home and Balzaretti somehow losing his spot to Giaccherini. We see Giaccherini starting in the 3-5-2, and he has offered so little that it is really disappointing.

And I think the Italian newspapers do have a right to be scared, or at least consider the possibility, but it isn't something to fixate on. Italy must first beat Ireland
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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by JespSwe on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:40 pm

@Luca wrote:
@JespSwe wrote:
@Adit wrote:Italian newspapers are rally scared lol

they are sometimes bunch of idiots. when italy were loosing so badly in friendly, these italian media and newspaper absolutely butchered prandelli with his tactics and asked to play juve tactics of 3-5-2 because of lot of juve players featuring in that tactics. and actually prandelli played with that in euro.

and now they are not happy again...

they blame croatians , spanish now, ... what worse they accuse prandelli their own azzurri leader. just f...kin let him work in peace....


Russia butchered Prandelli's tactics, that's what made him change
Although, the change is a little difficult to consider.

The 3-5-2 is better than the 4-3-1-2 which was preferred by Prandelli in qualifying/friendlies leading up to the tournament.

4-3-1-2 has Montolivo as a trequartista, which he fails as.
3-5-2 does not, this is the best thing.

But, with Criscito left at home and Balzaretti somehow losing his spot to Giaccherini. We see Giaccherini starting in the 3-5-2, and he has offered so little that it is really disappointing.

And I think the Italian newspapers do have a right to be scared, or at least consider the possibility, but it isn't something to fixate on. Italy must first beat Ireland

well prandelli's preference of montolivo as trequartista doesnt work at all

and i agree italy shouldnt go back to 4-3-1-2 still. its way too risky...

3-5-2 is just fine. its just like prandelli has been saying lately that he will have to change few players in tactics, not tactical system itself. so he is right.


i agree with u man... giaccherini i was hoping a lot from him. in juve he dribbles a lot, he drifts a lot here and there to scare defenders, but it hasnt happened in euro campaign so far.

well sometimes italian media exaggerates a lot, and really i mean they should just let the players and coaches work in peace. what really is scary though is that for italian players that should they get kicked out, then lot of pissed off fans and media will be waititng in airport to bust them up....

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by la bestia negra on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:58 pm

What if Spain end up being deceived
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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:05 pm

My 2 cents about this :coffee:

http://false9nine.blogspot.ca/2012/06/june-23-rd-2004-was-adark-night-for.html

June 23rd 2004 was a dark night for Italian football. Following their controversial exit from World Cup 2002, Giovanni Trappattoni and Italy were keen to have a strong showing in Portugal. After two disappointing draws against Scandinavians brothers, Sweden and Denmark, Italy’s faith was no longer in their own hands as head-to-head results came ahead of goal difference. On matchday 3, Italy was playing group C’s whipping boys, Bulgaria, whereas Denmark faced Sweden.
It was a very likely scenario that all 3 teams would end up on 5 points and hence, their results against Bulgaria would be irrelevant. In such situations, UEFA looks at head to head results between the teams who are tied. Italy’s first game was a goalless draw against Denmark. In their second game, Antonio Cassano’s first half opener was cancelled out by Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s spectacular back-heel as the game ended 1-1. Italy had already played its 2 games against Sweden and Denmark, in which they got 2 points, scored one and conceded one. Prior to the game, Italian officials expressed their concern over a potential match-fixing between Sweden and Denmark, as a score draw (anything more than 1-1) would send both teams through and eliminate Italy ,regardless of their result against Bulgaria.
Some Italians were quite positive that Denmark would try to beat Sweden, in order to top the group and avoid facing Czech Republic team who were in top form and quite easily won the group of death. As it panned out, beating Bulgaria wasn’t as straight forward as many Italians imagined. Both games were played at the same time, and until 85th minute, Italy and Bulgaria were tied 1-1, whereas Denmark was leading Sweden by 2 goals to 1. Trappattoni’s men were under the impression that one more goal will see them advance to quarter finals, and with only second remaining they got their goal. I think I’ll leave the talking to this clip which second-by-second demonstrates the emotional rollercoaster that Italians went through that day.


There are plenty of analogies I could think of to describe this situation. Worst of all for Italians, The Danes simply passed it around in their own half after conceding the equalizer with no intention to go out and win. So the last 5 minutes of that game, was nothing but a training practice for both sides. It actually reminded me of Italy vs. Mexico game in World Cup 2002, where Italians allowed Mexicans to pass the ball around for the last 7-8 minutes, being aware that Ecuador is beating Croatia and a draw would send Italy through. In any case, Scandinavian neighbours played out a dodgy draw which sent them both through and eliminated Italy and ended Trappattoni’s reign as Azzuri manager.

8 years later, Italy find themselves in a similar situation. Ireland is this year’s Bulgaria, and Italy once, again have played their 2 major rivals before matchday 3. Once again, a score draw between Croatia and Spain (2-2 or higher) will send them both through and eliminate Italy. I’d imagine Italians have learnt their lesson and won’t under-estimate Trappattoni’s Ireland who will be looking to go back to Dublin with at least some pride and will definitely put up a fight against Prandelli’s men. Luckily for Italy, Croatia and Spain aren’t neighbours and great friends like Sweden and Denmark were 8 years ago. In addition to that, Spain are the best team in the world, and would want to build on the momentum they made after thrashing Ireland on Thursday. Despite all that, Italians know deep inside that Spain would rather avoid them for rest of the tournament as they are more likely to trouble them in a one-off knock out game as opposed to Croatia. Marca, one of the most famous Spanish newspapers, did a poll and asked Spanish people whether they’d take a 2-2 draw if offered right now which will see Italy knocked out. 40% of readers voted yes, and 60% said they’d want to win the game and don’t care whether Italy will make it through or not. I also had a look at betting odds for Spain-Croatia game, and it was interesting that the result 2-2 had the shortest odds, which is quite incredible as Spain go to them game as overwhelming favourites. It shows that most people have put their money on a 2-2 draw. It will be interesting to see how bookies change their odds as the games draws closer. It’s interesting to note that not even 4 years ago, Italy’s faith was in their own hands going into the last game. Netherlands had already qualified as the first team after dismantling Italy and France, and were likely to field a second-string team against Romania on the last matchday. A Romanian win would have seen them qualify as group C runners-up regardless of the result in Italy vs. France game. At the time, Netherlands played a fair game and beat Romania 2-0. Italy won their game 2-0 against France as well and qualified to the next round.


No matter what happens tomorrow, Italy only have themselves to blame if they go out. They had full control of the game in first half against Croatia, and Prandelli’s failure to adapt his tactics after Bilic made some game changing substitutions and changes cost Italy 2 points. If I were Italian, I would hope that in 4 years time in France, my team wouldn’t rely on favours from other teams in order to make it to the last 8 of European Cup. Is it too much to ask from the second most successful footballing nation of all time?!

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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by Luca on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:13 pm

@JespSwe wrote:
@Luca wrote:
@JespSwe wrote:
@Adit wrote:Italian newspapers are rally scared lol

they are sometimes bunch of idiots. when italy were loosing so badly in friendly, these italian media and newspaper absolutely butchered prandelli with his tactics and asked to play juve tactics of 3-5-2 because of lot of juve players featuring in that tactics. and actually prandelli played with that in euro.

and now they are not happy again...

they blame croatians , spanish now, ... what worse they accuse prandelli their own azzurri leader. just f...kin let him work in peace....


Russia butchered Prandelli's tactics, that's what made him change
Although, the change is a little difficult to consider.

The 3-5-2 is better than the 4-3-1-2 which was preferred by Prandelli in qualifying/friendlies leading up to the tournament.

4-3-1-2 has Montolivo as a trequartista, which he fails as.
3-5-2 does not, this is the best thing.

But, with Criscito left at home and Balzaretti somehow losing his spot to Giaccherini. We see Giaccherini starting in the 3-5-2, and he has offered so little that it is really disappointing.

And I think the Italian newspapers do have a right to be scared, or at least consider the possibility, but it isn't something to fixate on. Italy must first beat Ireland

well prandelli's preference of montolivo as trequartista doesnt work at all

and i agree italy shouldnt go back to 4-3-1-2 still. its way too risky...

3-5-2 is just fine. its just like prandelli has been saying lately that he will have to change few players in tactics, not tactical system itself. so he is right.


i agree with u man... giaccherini i was hoping a lot from him. in juve he dribbles a lot, he drifts a lot here and there to scare defenders, but it hasnt happened in euro campaign so far.

well sometimes italian media exaggerates a lot, and really i mean they should just let the players and coaches work in peace. what really is scary though is that for italian players that should they get kicked out, then lot of pissed off fans and media will be waititng in airport to bust them up....

I agree, Giaccherini has offered so little on both sides of the ball. He is out of his depth and it is showing.

Agreed about the exaggerations as well.
I'm hearing now that Balotelli will be dropped and it will be Cassano and Di Natale up front, unsure about how I feel about that.
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Re: Will Italy get 2004ed again ?

Post by JespSwe on Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:19 pm

@Luca wrote:
@JespSwe wrote:
@Luca wrote:
@JespSwe wrote:
@Adit wrote:Italian newspapers are rally scared lol

they are sometimes bunch of idiots. when italy were loosing so badly in friendly, these italian media and newspaper absolutely butchered prandelli with his tactics and asked to play juve tactics of 3-5-2 because of lot of juve players featuring in that tactics. and actually prandelli played with that in euro.

and now they are not happy again...

they blame croatians , spanish now, ... what worse they accuse prandelli their own azzurri leader. just f...kin let him work in peace....


Russia butchered Prandelli's tactics, that's what made him change
Although, the change is a little difficult to consider.

The 3-5-2 is better than the 4-3-1-2 which was preferred by Prandelli in qualifying/friendlies leading up to the tournament.

4-3-1-2 has Montolivo as a trequartista, which he fails as.
3-5-2 does not, this is the best thing.

But, with Criscito left at home and Balzaretti somehow losing his spot to Giaccherini. We see Giaccherini starting in the 3-5-2, and he has offered so little that it is really disappointing.

And I think the Italian newspapers do have a right to be scared, or at least consider the possibility, but it isn't something to fixate on. Italy must first beat Ireland

well prandelli's preference of montolivo as trequartista doesnt work at all

and i agree italy shouldnt go back to 4-3-1-2 still. its way too risky...

3-5-2 is just fine. its just like prandelli has been saying lately that he will have to change few players in tactics, not tactical system itself. so he is right.


i agree with u man... giaccherini i was hoping a lot from him. in juve he dribbles a lot, he drifts a lot here and there to scare defenders, but it hasnt happened in euro campaign so far.

well sometimes italian media exaggerates a lot, and really i mean they should just let the players and coaches work in peace. what really is scary though is that for italian players that should they get kicked out, then lot of pissed off fans and media will be waititng in airport to bust them up....

I agree, Giaccherini has offered so little on both sides of the ball. He is out of his depth and it is showing.

Agreed about the exaggerations as well.
I'm hearing now that Balotelli will be dropped and it will be Cassano and Di Natale up front, unsure about how I feel about that.

yeah man, giaccherini is good as a winger not as good as a wingback but nevertheless not just giaccherini but the whole italian team work is excellent, atleast so far, i mean they either have got caught in one off moment or just lost concentration by the second half when opponent press, and thats where right substitution is required.


oh btw balotelli was reported to have got injured in training.... thats why he may not start. so either di natale or borini but di natale will probably start.

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