Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by billionmillion on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:42 pm

@Adit wrote:Last year balondor logic

''what has ronaldo won ? broken copa? ''

''Ronaldo simply scored alot of goals after La liga was already over''

.....................

This year logic


''Messi has broken copa''

''Messi scored LOT of goals'' ( Messi scores 10 fking goals after the 7 point lead clasico with 4 penalties Laughing )
You can not even hide your bias pirat
messi won CL+La liga that year
messi scored in CL final, scored wonder goal vs madrid in CL semi final
He was CL top scorer
Ronaldo only with copa del rey could not compete against those things.

this season ronaldo only won la liga and nothing else. if he won CL and was CL top scorer+La liga we could use same example here
(even though 82 goals 42 assists>53 goals+15 assists, and 15 broken records>2 broken record)

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Donuts on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:00 pm

I'm all for defenders winning the Ballon D'ore as a few people in this thread have complained that they don't win it, but simply the current defenders don't really deserve it.. According to this forums TS is the best in defense *today*, so would any of you even consider him top 10 material?

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by vivabarca38 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:20 pm

Imo Ballon D'or shouldnt be about trophies,it should be about who was the best player on the pitch each year.If it was about trophies then Mata or Torres should win it.
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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:22 pm

@billionmillion wrote:
@Adit wrote:Last year balondor logic

''what has ronaldo won ? broken copa? ''

''Ronaldo simply scored alot of goals after La liga was already over''

.....................

This year logic


''Messi has broken copa''

''Messi scored LOT of goals'' ( Messi scores 10 fking goals after the 7 point lead clasico with 4 penalties Laughing )
You can not even hide your bias pirat
messi won CL+La liga that year
messi scored in CL final, scored wonder goal vs madrid in CL semi final
He was CL top scorer
Ronaldo only with copa del rey could not compete against those things.

this season ronaldo only won la liga and nothing else. if he won CL and was CL top scorer+La liga we could use same example here
(even though 82 goals 42 assists>53 goals+15 assists, and 15 broken records>2 broken record)

82 goals? Are we gonna count training goals and assists now? Laughing

Messi has 70 goals in all official competitions bar friendlies. Lets subtract 10 of those goals, since every goal after la liga ended is useless, no?
Then in reality, he has 26 assists, again, a couple of them after la liga ended.

So his season isnt that much different from ronaldo isnt it?

Don't even talk about bias kid. You were the one calling higuain better then ronaldo Laughing

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by vivabarca38 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:32 pm

70 goals bar friendlies :facepalm: rofl you're trying anyway to make ronaldo look good.You already embarassed yourself enough with the ronaldo and his deceased father argument.
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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:36 pm

you count goals made in friendlies? lol
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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by billionmillion on Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:41 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
@billionmillion wrote:
@Adit wrote:Last year balondor logic

''what has ronaldo won ? broken copa? ''

''Ronaldo simply scored alot of goals after La liga was already over''

.....................

This year logic


''Messi has broken copa''

''Messi scored LOT of goals'' ( Messi scores 10 fking goals after the 7 point lead clasico with 4 penalties Laughing )
You can not even hide your bias pirat
messi won CL+La liga that year
messi scored in CL final, scored wonder goal vs madrid in CL semi final
He was CL top scorer
Ronaldo only with copa del rey could not compete against those things.

this season ronaldo only won la liga and nothing else. if he won CL and was CL top scorer+La liga we could use same example here
(even though 82 goals 42 assists>53 goals+15 assists, and 15 broken records>2 broken record)

82 goals? Are we gonna count training goals and assists now? Laughing

Messi has 70 goals in all official competitions bar friendlies. Lets subtract 10 of those goals, since every goal after la liga ended is useless, no?
Then in reality, he has 26 assists, again, a couple of them after la liga ended.

So his season isnt that much different from ronaldo isnt it?

Don't even talk about bias kid. You were the one calling higuain better then ronaldo Laughing
why didnt you response to the first point pirat . messi has CL and was CL top scorer that year, ronaldo has none this year and this is a huge difference. let it be 73 goals 29 assists its still better than 53 goals 15 assists (20 more goals and 14 more assists). Why substract 10 from messi? ronaldo scored 12 goals after competition finished last year so subtract that also

eh giggity when you will grow Cool

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Die Borussen on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:29 pm

meh i think none was better than the other

messi scored and assisted more but ronaldo scored and assisted much as well
since ronaldo's goals won la liga and messi's CDR i really cant seperate them
and im talking about this season and only

imo none of the two should take it
i want iniesta to win it


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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Paprika on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:49 pm

Simply wish:

1 - Casillas
2 - Ronaldo
3 - Messi


Wish / Possibility:

1 - Ronaldo
2 - Messi
3 - Casillas

How it will be:

1 - Messi
2 - Ronaldo
3 - Xavi / Iniesta (Prob Ini)

Top ten:

Messi
Ronaldo
Pirlo
Casillas
Xavi
Iniesta
Silva
Özil
Ibrahimovic
(Drogba?)

In various order..

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by vivabarca38 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:56 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:you count goals made in friendlies? lol
What friendlies?
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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Khaled on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:08 pm

82 goals and 33 assists in 69 OFFICIAL games!!! (Barca + Argentina)

If you want to add unofficial games in 2011/12, its 90 goals #lol


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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Khaled on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:11 pm

Stats in 2012 (Club+NT):

- Messi scored 51 goals in 37 official games, added 15 assists.
- Cr7 scored 38 goals in 40 official games, added 8 assists.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by FennecFox7 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:06 am

@vivabarca38 wrote:You already embarassed yourself enough with the ronaldo and his deceased father argument.

So? It was a mistake.. thanks for the personal attack though Smile

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by buddytaller on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:15 am

@Khaled wrote:Stats in 2012 (Club+NT):

- Messi scored 51 goals in 37 official games, added 15 assists.
- Cr7 scored 38 goals in 40 official games, added 8 assists.

Messi had 43 goals in 35 official games (excluding friendlies against Brazil Olympic squad and Switerland) and including stat padding goals when Madrid had already won the league. When I counted at the soccernet stat page.

Ronaldo's stats include his exploits against some of the Europe's best sides at the Euros. Messi only has 5 more goals than Ronaldo in official games in 2012, I expect Ronaldo to take the lead by December.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:00 am

jiopsi wrote:
1. No, he got 47 goals, which only equalled Spanish record. 48+18 compared to 82+41 this season for club+nt. Because they valued trophies more in that season/ year? In coaches/ players minds Messi had best season.

2. I wont be going all those through before you argue, why they didn't deserve to win. And Ballon d'Or isn't about best player, it's about who had the best individual season/ year.

a. Sammer won Bundesliga, DFP-supercup and Euro's being the best player of tournament. Ronaldo didn't win anything major and scored some 30 odd goals in Eredivisie, not really amazing stuff is it?

1. See you have clearly said in coaches/players mind Messi had best season. In the original Ballon D'or the voting was limited to journalists only. So if you are saying that in the current system the coaches/players will tilt the overall vote count towards Messi then that's a good point and that's what actually happened in 2010.

2. There is nothing to argue there. You are saying they didn't deserve to win because they weren't best player. Next you are saying Ballon D'or is about who had the best year. I am not saying anything too different from that.

3. Good points about Sammer but even then Ronaldo won Fifa's world player of the year. That once again shows that coaches/captains go by the ability of the individual as perhaps the biggest factor of judgment.

So are we effectively agreeing with each other without realizing it?

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:09 am

deadrave wrote:
imo none of the two should take it
i want iniesta to win it

Thumbs up - I am only half serious though. More seriously he will probably have a better chance at 'Best Player in Europe' than at the 'Fifa Ballon D'or'.


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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:51 am

It seems we largely have a consensus regarding the top seven players. They are in no particular order Messi, C.Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Ozil and Casillas. From number eight onwards we largely differ. This also indicates quite strongly that the top three in Fifa Ballon D'or and other awards will come from these seven players.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Harmonica on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:20 am

@messixaviesta wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
1. No, he got 47 goals, which only equalled Spanish record. 48+18 compared to 82+41 this season for club+nt. Because they valued trophies more in that season/ year? In coaches/ players minds Messi had best season.

2. I wont be going all those through before you argue, why they didn't deserve to win. And Ballon d'Or isn't about best player, it's about who had the best individual season/ year.

a. Sammer won Bundesliga, DFP-supercup and Euro's being the best player of tournament. Ronaldo didn't win anything major and scored some 30 odd goals in Eredivisie, not really amazing stuff is it?

1. See you have clearly said in coaches/players mind Messi had best season. In the original Ballon D'or the voting was limited to journalists only. So if you are saying that in the current system the coaches/players will tilt the overall vote count towards Messi then that's a good point and that's what actually happened in 2010.
I don't really understand what you are trying to prove here. Yes, that is what happened in 2010. You can always argue that more knowledgeable people give more merit to the poll, and it will have the correct winner, most of the time. You can also visit my what if Ballon d'Or thread and see who would have won from -91 with current format: http://www.goallegacy.net/t15515-who-would-have-won-ballon-d-or-s-if-everyone-were-eligible?highlight=what+ballon

2. There is nothing to argue there. You are saying they didn't deserve to win because they weren't best player. Next you are saying Ballon D'or is about who had the best year. I am not saying anything too different from that.
Who performed best during the season/year.

3. Good points about Sammer but even then Ronaldo won Fifa's world player of the year. That once again shows that coaches/captains go by the ability of the individual as perhaps the biggest factor of judgment.

So are we effectively agreeing with each other without realizing it?
Yeah, Ronaldo would have won with current format, and his individual input obviously were better in the eyes of coaches/players.

Ballon d'Or is the subjective and collective vote of 450 people, they can have pretty much any criteria they want, as long as it is for the player who is considered to have performed the best in the previous season. It's not a team prize, it's not a some random or best player of winning team prize, and it's not for career prize. It's who has performed best during the season/year. And Messi obviously has.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:44 am

jiopsi wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
1. No, he got 47 goals, which only equalled Spanish record. 48+18 compared to 82+41 this season for club+nt. Because they valued trophies more in that season/ year? In coaches/ players minds Messi had best season.

2. I wont be going all those through before you argue, why they didn't deserve to win. And Ballon d'Or isn't about best player, it's about who had the best individual season/ year.

a. Sammer won Bundesliga, DFP-supercup and Euro's being the best player of tournament. Ronaldo didn't win anything major and scored some 30 odd goals in Eredivisie, not really amazing stuff is it?

1. See you have clearly said in coaches/players mind Messi had best season. In the original Ballon D'or the voting was limited to journalists only. So if you are saying that in the current system the coaches/players will tilt the overall vote count towards Messi then that's a good point and that's what actually happened in 2010.
I don't really understand what you are trying to prove here. Yes, that is what happened in 2010. You can always argue that more knowledgeable people give more merit to the poll, and it will have the correct winner, most of the time. You can also visit my what if Ballon d'Or thread and see who would have won from -91 with current format: http://www.goallegacy.net/t15515-who-would-have-won-ballon-d-or-s-if-everyone-were-eligible?highlight=what+ballon

2. There is nothing to argue there. You are saying they didn't deserve to win because they weren't best player. Next you are saying Ballon D'or is about who had the best year. I am not saying anything too different from that.
Who performed best during the season/year.

3. Good points about Sammer but even then Ronaldo won Fifa's world player of the year. That once again shows that coaches/captains go by the ability of the individual as perhaps the biggest factor of judgment.

So are we effectively agreeing with each other without realizing it?
Yeah, Ronaldo would have won with current format, and his individual input obviously were better in the eyes of coaches/players.

Ballon d'Or is the subjective and collective vote of 450 people, they can have pretty much any criteria they want, as long as it is for the player who is considered to have performed the best in the previous season. It's not a team prize, it's not a some random or best player of winning team prize, and it's not for career prize. It's who has performed best during the season/year. And Messi obviously has.

1. As to what I am trying to prove there, it's simply that this year the same scenario as 2010 could be replayed. Note that I am saying this could happen and certainly not guaranteeing that it will happen. I will perhaps go through your thread later.

2. Yes that is true but this needs more elaboration and we will take it up in a forthcoming point.

3. I understand Ballon D'or very well. I never said it's a team prize. If people have misunderstood some of my comments then there isn't too much I can do about that. As for it not being a career prize not sure if you are aware but the criteria for Ballon D'or does clearly mention one point as career trajectory. This point is usually not given much importance though. Yes it is about who has performed best in the year. However you have yourself said that different people can apply different criteria. In your opinion Messi has performed best because you are applying your criteria. You can't say for sure what criteria different voters will apply. Some may go for individual excellence in terms of goals, assists, etc. and some may go for the biggest trophies of the year and which player played how much of a part in winning them for his team(s). If I were to guess right now I would say the coaches and captains will largely vote for Messi and/or C.Ronaldo but who the journalists will favor is really difficult to predict.

4. The 'Best Player in Europe' award should be announced in one and a half months or so. That is based solely on votes of journalists. If Messi wins that as well then I will openly admit you were right in saying Messi unquestionably performed the best during the year. So let's wait and watch.

I hope these comments of mine have resolved whatever confusions that were there so far.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Harmonica on Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:54 am

@messixaviesta wrote:3. I understand Ballon D'or very well. I never said it's a team prize. If people have misunderstood some of my comments then there isn't too much I can do about that. As for it not being a career prize not sure if you are aware but the criteria for Ballon D'or does clearly mention one point as career trajectory. This point is usually not given much importance though. Yes it is about who has performed best in the year. However you have yourself said that different people can apply different criteria. In your opinion Messi has performed best because you are applying your criteria. You can't say for sure what criteria different voters will apply. Some may go for individual excellent in terms of a goals and assists and some may go for the biggest trophies of the year and which player played how much of a part in winning them for his team(s). If I were to guess right now I would say the coaches and captains will largely vote for Messi and/or C.Ronaldo but who the journalists will favor is really difficult to predict.
You have a link to official statement of that?

4. The 'Best Player in Europe' award should be announced in one and a half months or so. That is based solely on votes of journalists. If Messi wins that as well then I will openly admit you were right in saying Messi unquestionably performed the best during the year. So let's wait and watch.
The UEFA award will be voted only by handfull of people, so it definitely isn't the same as the old Ballon d'Or.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:01 am

jiopsi wrote:
@messixaviesta wrote:3. I understand Ballon D'or very well. I never said it's a team prize. If people have misunderstood some of my comments then there isn't too much I can do about that. As for it not being a career prize not sure if you are aware but the criteria for Ballon D'or does clearly mention one point as career trajectory. This point is usually not given much importance though. Yes it is about who has performed best in the year. However you have yourself said that different people can apply different criteria. In your opinion Messi has performed best because you are applying your criteria. You can't say for sure what criteria different voters will apply. Some may go for individual excellent in terms of a goals and assists and some may go for the biggest trophies of the year and which player played how much of a part in winning them for his team(s). If I were to guess right now I would say the coaches and captains will largely vote for Messi and/or C.Ronaldo but who the journalists will favor is really difficult to predict.
You have a link to official statement of that?

4. The 'Best Player in Europe' award should be announced in one and a half months or so. That is based solely on votes of journalists. If Messi wins that as well then I will openly admit you were right in saying Messi unquestionably performed the best during the year. So let's wait and watch.
The UEFA award will be voted only by handfull of people, so it definitely isn't the same as the old Ballon d'Or.

1. I remember positively having seen that in 2010 when the award was also being hotly debated. I had even discussed it with some Barcelona fans. However now I just can't recall what that link was - probably a FIFA one but not sure. I'll try to find it later though.

2. That's a fair point. I think it's still indicative of what could have happened if the original Ballon D'or had stayed but we of course can't say for sure.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:16 pm

I tried but I couldn't find that original article.

I did find a link from Goal.com that has that information. This is not going to be considered an official source but it's the best that I have at the moment. Scroll down to the middle of the article and the criteria are listed below an image of Messi.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/88/spain/2011/01/11/2300376/fifa-ballon-dor-analysis-how-lionel-messi-got-ahead-of


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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Harmonica on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:03 pm

I think that's lol.coms own assessments, until some fairly more official.

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Cruijf on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:37 pm

1. Pirlo
2. Ozil
3. Xavi

:coffee:

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by Potential on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:40 pm

Who cares? The reward lost its meaning after Sneijder not winning it in 2010

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Re: Fifa Ballon D'or - Who Will Be Top Three?

Post by messixaviesta on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:49 pm

jiopsi wrote:I think that's lol.coms own assessments, until some fairly more official.

As you please. I remember having read almost exactly that at an official site but can't prove it to you now.

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