Transfer Rumors

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Donuts on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:48 am

Poor Iniesta cannot play in his natural position so everyone can feel happy, and has yet to complain as far as we know.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:00 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:
I blame the players and I play our management for Cesc coming, the players shamelessly longed for him and our management weakly made it happen. I also am a little unhappy with Pep for it too, he seemed to push this move when it got to the later stages too. Its rather frustrating how he made that push, had him for a year and has now gone to Bayern while we are stuck with the mess..and while I say mess, I mean that in the most positive term because Cesc is still a fantastic player in the right role.

Who do you think really wanted him that badly? The management? Its rumored Rosell didn't want this move. Pep? What could he get out of it if he had already planned to end his tenure at Barca? I can think of only one thing and that is fulfilling his childhood promise to Cesc that he will one day wear Pep's no. 4 Barca shirt. The players? Maybe but would seasoned professionals really do all that just to get a long lost friend back? No it seems to me they expected some special value add from him. I remember a comment from Xavi saying that he would retire in a few years and it was important for Fabregas to be ready to take over his duties in time. I guess what they hadn't then realized was that playing the way he has played the last few years Cesc wouldn't fit into that role. I still think if Fabregas were to give up his desire to go forward and score goals he could try to rediscover the way he used to play around 2006 and then perhaps we could make better use of him but thats really difficult.

@The Franchise wrote:
No question to me Thiago and Busquets would be better than Iniesta. They have many more of the attributes required. Iniesta is a free spirit in many ways, he enjoys the freedom, he can go a little bit wider if he needs to, he can drive at 2,3 defenders. Thiago can do that too mind, but he equally looks a natural deeper, plus he had a natural athletic ability about him which also is a plus for the position.

Interesting. In this sense I agree Busquets suits the role best. About Thiago I have always seen him as more about adventure than about discipline but now that you say this I will keep a closer eye on him to understand how well he can possibly fit the Xavi role. Good point about his athletic ability. Still would a young prodigy, part Brazilian at that, want to continue to play conservatively during his prime footballing years?

Another thought I had was that we are talking about the time when Xavi retires or is close to retirement. Consider Iniesta's age at that time. In his advancing years isn't it possible that he would prefer to dribble and run less and gradually move towards a more conservative role? Wouldn't it suit him more than playing left winger does?



Well in the end the management make the final decision, so yes its their fault too. Rossell didnt want him? I dont know that, but if he and the sporting director both came to the conclusion they didnt want him, then why did it happen?

Pep hadnt planned to leave when he got Cesc, it was after that his decision was made.

Xavi was simply saying good things about Cesc, either he didnt mean it, or he hadnt watch him play in years.

There is no doubt this was a move based on who Cesc is, seasoned pro's or not, thats exactly what happened. Of course they expected him to be a great player and he is that, but if Cesc was a German and never came through La Masia..we wouldnt of bat an eye lid....sort of Ozil.

Every position suits in midfield suits Iniesta more than the left wing does, but still no JD. Go take a look at Zidane, he and Iniesta are as close style wise as perhaps you can find, did he in his advancing years become a deeper midfielder who circulated the ball? No, he did the same things he has been doing. I noticed alot of people talk about when players get older they will change position, but to me thats alot of talk because in reality it rarely ever happens and you even more rarely see it coming (Giggs playing in the center for example).

As for Thiago, no, I dont think he would have a problem. Just because he plays the position doesnt mean he will interpret it the same way. He has dribbling skills Xavi doesnt have, he can interpret it in his own way. He is a heck of a consistent passer, moves deep, advances and gives options in the same way Xavi does...that to me is why he can do it, right this minute even.

If Xavi retired today, I wouldnt be incredibly worried honestly. Thats how good Thiago is.

We wont be as good, im not saying we will, but the ship wont come crashing down either.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by free_cat on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:16 pm

@CBarca wrote:It's not like he's been unnecessary and performed fantastically either.

It was unnecessary and he's been fairly average since joining too.

I remember many opposing it all the way back in lithium. It's a shame.

Cesc has been far from average, don't kid yourself.

@messixaviesta wrote:I would like to understand why quite a few of you are saying Iniesta cannot play the Xavi role if ever needed and that Thiago and Busquets would definitely be a better choice than him in that role.

Agreed. He can definitely do it, he actually has done it in the past.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by messixaviesta on Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:07 pm

Thanks dani and cat for the replies.

cat, I am reminded of the time when Rijkaard played Iniesta almost like a DM.

dani, I agree with all that you say about the Cesc purchase. However Xavi got so personally involved in that matter. Why do you think he did that? He wanted a friend back? He was asked to do so by other players especially Pique and Puyol and the management? He thought Fabregas would give excellent value addition?

That Zidane example makes very good sense. However Zidane would have probably not agreed to play deeper if his team needed him to because for all his greatness he wasn't a self sacrificial player. Thats not the case with Iniesta who would do as needed. Whether this will ever be tried out and if it happens how well he would suit the role I guess only time can tell for sure.

Lastly I really like your faith in Thiago. Guess we may need it soon because the media is saying Xavi may not be fit for the first leg vs. Milan.


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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:32 pm

Xavi probably got personally involved by again, who Cesc was. Its like trying to get a friend to come play with you.

I am sure he didnt think much further than he is a great player and a former La Masia played, who they came to known very well with the NT. And thats fine, he shouldnt have to think more than that.

However, that doesnt mean

A. We have to get him
B. He is "too good" to play a supersub/rotational role.

The fact he has played more games than Iniesta, in Iniesta's best season to date, to me is inexplicable.

On Zidane, we can speculate about what he might of done...but they never did moved him back and I heard nothing of them asking that of him. Any why should they? Even in his late years he was still fantastic in his usual position and so will be Iniesta. I dont like the fact that Iniesta's career to date has been about moving him about, he deserves to have a position like everyone else that be his position..just because he is versatile and selfless, I feel for him that he was been made to play on the wing and I would feel for him if he got asked to play a more conservative role later on.

I dont recall a player as great as him moving about so much, the only guys of this sort of level I can think of are Breitner, Guillt, Matthäus and Desailly. And all 4 moved to positions they were more than happy to move to, but did so after spending several years in one single role.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:19 pm



Oh oh.

The plot thickens.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 pm

Zubi.

Get er' done.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by windkick on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:53 pm

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/zubizarreta-reune-con-bielsa-bilbao-2310447

Don't want. Tito is better, problem is we don't have Tito at the moment but he will be back

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:35 am

Apparently it's for a basque documentary, and on the other side of the table were Valdano and Santiago Segurola (Marca director). Zubi asked about the contractual situation of Munian and Ander.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Rossoneri Ninja on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:05 am

Um.. Is Thiago in your team's immediate plans?
Free-Loan with option to buy yes
Will start most if not all games, he will be nurtured in a rich tactical environment. Will have more responsibility within a senior team. Will have lots of teammates who is his age so he won't have problems settling in. This can work, what do you have to lose? You got Cesc that can basically cover every midfield position
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Donuts on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:32 am

@Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Um.. Is Thiago in your team's immediate plans?
Free-Loan with option to buy yes
Will start most if not all games, he will be nurtured in a rich tactical environment. Will have more responsibility within a senior team. Will have lots of teammates who is his age so he won't have problems settling in. This can work, what do you have to lose? You got Cesc that can basically cover every midfield position
Cesc cannot play Xavi's role, thiago is second choice after Xavi, for his role that is.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Rossoneri Ninja on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:48 am

Sooo u saying Cesc is available for Free - loan with option to buy? We took Ronaldinho off your hands , you owe us Laughing

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Donuts on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:14 am

@Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Sooo u saying Cesc is available for Free - loan with option to buy? We took Ronaldinho off your hands , you owe us Laughing
nah sadly cesc along with Iniesta is also a starter leaving Villa on the bench.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:46 pm

I can't wait when in a couple of years all those 'Thiago to succeed Xavi' dreams of Barcelona fans are over. For that Xavi Role, I would take Wilshere over Thiago without thinking twice. Out of all those Arsenal midfielders, I've always said you signed the wrong ones.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:51 pm

Cool story bro.

Whats the point if your statement? You know full and well noone can prove anything untill that time comes.

Instead of acting a tool, if you so sure, why not such the hell up and say you told us so later on?
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:04 pm

Will do son, don't worry about that...

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Donuts on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:09 pm

Why is it we assume we are always going to play the same way, we might have different tactics.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:14 pm

@Donuts wrote:Why is it we assume we are always going to play the same way, we might have different tactics.

Different as in how?

I think there will always be room for a player who can pass at over a 90% rate, tackle, run, jump, dribble and score the odd goal.

When people say replace Xavi, I dont think anyone means play exactly like Xavi...rather to his place in the side in terms of being crucial in circulating the ball, always being an option and linking things like Xavi does now.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:50 pm

Wilshere Laughing

He spends more time dribbling and driving into the box than passing.

And while he's very good at it that's exactly the thing you are accusing Thiago of why he cannot replace Xavi.


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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:01 pm

Whats crazy is, if you actually look at the facts..Thiago is superior defensive player, accurate or even "safe" (whichever way you want it) passer and plays generally deeper than Wilshere.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:16 am

We all know how Mr. Pardew here dislikes Wilshere, and while I don't like the hype around the player, he is one hell of a player for his age.

Also I can only laugh off at the superiority of Thiago as a defensive player. Wilshere is a great, great tackler with mind-boggling strength and speed for his physique. I cannot fault Thiago's passing, whom I regard a great passer of the ball with as I do with Wilshere. What really sells the idea of Wilshere to me for the Xavi Role however is his composure and work rate, both of which I find questionable when watching Thiago. Not saying Thiago is a lazy player, but he doesn't run anywhere near Xavi.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by CBarca on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:16 am

Wilshere has shown this season to be more effective higher up the pitch. He's not really a Xavi so much as an Iniesta tbh

Thiago has played farther back than Wilshere in the Xavi role and has done it well. We have seen this.

I don't see what makes Wilshere more of a fit.

And yes, Thiago is a superior defensive player.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by windkick on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:01 am

Barca is so good, that if you have a good game vs them 1 of 2 things can happen...

1. You can end up on a FIFA cover

2. You get called up to your National Team

THATS how good the team is.

Thiago is from our system, works better for us. End of story.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by CBarca on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:06 am

Thiago is from our system, works better for us. End of story.

As succinct and short as this statement is, I think it sums everything up perfectly tbh Laughing

Well put.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:16 pm

When you talkabout Wilshere's defensively ability like that, you lose whatever credibility you had.

Great tackler Laughing

I ask you, if he is so great as a defender why did Eriksen utterly destroy England with him playing the holding midfield role?

There is no shame in it, he just isnt a great defensive player.

He dont have the awareness, he's often quick late to tackle because he isnt in the correct place, and while he is strong and quick for his size, Thiago is quicker and about as strong..while also being able to win aerial balls despite his height.

Composure? Thiago is as composed as a player he age comes, your ridiculous.

Maybe Wilshere has more, maybe not, but whatever small difference is made up by the fact Thiago is a better defensive player as I already said.

I love Wilshere, I rave about his ability, you wont find many non-Arsenal fans that rate him like me but your clearly blind if you think he is a great defensive player.



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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Xavi probably got personally involved by again, who Cesc was. Its like trying to get a friend to come play with you.

I am sure he didnt think much further than he is a great player and a former La Masia played, who they came to known very well with the NT. And thats fine, he shouldnt have to think more than that.

However, that doesnt mean

A. We have to get him
B. He is "too good" to play a supersub/rotational role.

The fact he has played more games than Iniesta, in Iniesta's best season to date, to me is inexplicable.

On Zidane, we can speculate about what he might of done...but they never did moved him back and I heard nothing of them asking that of him. Any why should they? Even in his late years he was still fantastic in his usual position and so will be Iniesta. I dont like the fact that Iniesta's career to date has been about moving him about, he deserves to have a position like everyone else that be his position..just because he is versatile and selfless, I feel for him that he was been made to play on the wing and I would feel for him if he got asked to play a more conservative role later on.

I dont recall a player as great as him moving about so much, the only guys of this sort of level I can think of are Breitner, Guillt, Matthäus and Desailly. And all 4 moved to positions they were more than happy to move to, but did so after spending several years in one single role.



dani, excellent comments. Nothing to disagree. I have underlined the lines that I liked immensely.

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