Transfer Rumors

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:13 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Xavi probably got personally involved by again, who Cesc was. Its like trying to get a friend to come play with you.

I am sure he didnt think much further than he is a great player and a former La Masia played, who they came to known very well with the NT. And thats fine, he shouldnt have to think more than that.

However, that doesnt mean

A. We have to get him
B. He is "too good" to play a supersub/rotational role.

The fact he has played more games than Iniesta, in Iniesta's best season to date, to me is inexplicable.

On Zidane, we can speculate about what he might of done...but they never did moved him back and I heard nothing of them asking that of him. Any why should they? Even in his late years he was still fantastic in his usual position and so will be Iniesta. I dont like the fact that Iniesta's career to date has been about moving him about, he deserves to have a position like everyone else that be his position..just because he is versatile and selfless, I feel for him that he was been made to play on the wing and I would feel for him if he got asked to play a more conservative role later on.

I dont recall a player as great as him moving about so much, the only guys of this sort of level I can think of are Breitner, Guillt, Matthäus and Desailly. And all 4 moved to positions they were more than happy to move to, but did so after spending several years in one single role.



dani, excellent comments. Nothing to disagree. I have underlined the lines that I liked immensely.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:17 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Oh oh.

The plot thickens.

alfred, I know you and dani are thrilled with the idea of Bielsa but I am skeptical. For all his greatness he is known to be a very eccentric character. I can't see his kind of coaches give us sustained stability or success.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:36 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Oh oh.

The plot thickens.

alfred, I know you and dani are thrilled with the idea of Bielsa but I am skeptical. For all his greatness he is known to be a very eccentric character. I can't see his kind of coaches give us sustained stability or success.

I love Bielsa, but I do admit he wouldnt work for us today.

First of all, he demands a ton of work and pressing. Messi barely wants to jog, let alone press at a full sprint.

Second, he likes to attack a little more directly than we like. Perhaps we can meet in the middle, he still wants a possession game, but the speed in which he wants to arrive at the goal may be too quick for us.

On the plus side side, I think if anyone can get something out of Alexis he can.

Another great plus would be he would play 3 forwards at all times, I highly doubt he would compromise his principles just to fit in Cesc.

On the negative side though again, he will change our formation perhaps too much, too often...I dont think we have the players for 3 at the back either, but he will force it.

Overall, I feel he is a great coach but there are a couple different things he does (which are not wrong by the way) that wouldnt fit in perfectly well with us.

Bielsa would be my choice though if we changed up our squad for some reason.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:35 pm

dani, excellent comments.


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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:44 pm

I'm not exactly sold on the Bielsa idea either, not after seeing the level of success that Tito has achieved in the 6 months where he was primarily active. I wouldn't want to see him replaced unless he had to take an extended medical leave and we would be forced to replace him.

With that said, it's no secret that I love Bielsa's passion, professionalism, direct style, and above all his ability to improve players he currently has. I feel like the last is really a key attribute for a team like Barca where youth promotion is so important. He also has that Mourinho-like attribute where all the players that have trained with him lavish him with praise years later - although perhaps Mourinho will no longer have claim to that after his RM stint.

But he's a perfectionist to a flaw, and at Athletic we're seeing that he often chooses not to play his most successful 4-2-3-1 in favor of the 4-3-3- which does not suit his players as much. It must be infuriating for fans to see him get to 2 finals with the 4-2-3-1 and then lose in part due to different tactics and not learn from the experience. The other problem is that he has such a strong personality I feel like it wouldn't take long to clash with his superiors.

I would love to see him at Barca, although not at the expense of Tito, but doubt whether he'll be the one we win the most with.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:31 pm

@The Franchise wrote:When you talkabout Wilshere's defensively ability like that, you lose whatever credibility you had.
Great tackler Laughing
I ask you, if he is so great as a defender why did Eriksen utterly destroy England with him playing the holding midfield role?

lol talking about getting destroyed, maybe you should have a long look at the many many matches Thiago has been in your starting line-up and ended up in Barcelona losing points last season.

@The Franchise wrote:There is no shame in it, he just isnt a great defensive player.
Show me where I said he was a great defensive player. I said Thiago was not a better defensive player, which he isn't. I also added that Wishere is a great tackler. If you think a great tackler automatically means a great defensive player than no point taking this argument any further.

Wilshere is a the definition of box-to-box midfielder. You can put him anywhere in midfield and he'll do well. He can orchestrate things from deep while I don't believe Thiago is made for playing deep at all but we'll see who is right about that in a few years. Seeing him rotting on the bench isn't exactly going to help his development anyway.

@The Franchise wrote:He dont have the awareness, he's often quick late to tackle because he isnt in the correct place, and while he is strong and quick for his size, Thiago is quicker and about as strong..while also being able to win aerial balls despite his height.

I don't agree that Thiago is quicker. This season Wilshere has been showing explosive pace, on and off the ball while Thiago is more of a slower dribbler who can work his way out in tight places. I agree his aerial ability is superior to Wilshere, but he isn't exactly an aerial threat by any means either so no point talking about it.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:18 pm

LOL Talk about clutching at straws...I guess Wilshere is better than Messi? After all, he was in the Barca side that dropped points too.

Show me one time Thiago got destroyed like Wilshere did by Eriksen? You wont be able to because it never once happened.

You didnt have to say he is a great defensive player, its not important. The fact you think he is a great tackler is enough to show you dont know what your on about.

Rotting on the bench? Based on what, a 6 game sample size? He is playing more than now Iniesta as his age, so clearly you have no idea.

Thiago is better deeper, as I already said, he is a better and more accurate passer among other things.

Speed? I am talking running, not dribbling...in a straight up sprint Thiago is faster. Which is more important in terms of defending. And it doesnt matter if Thiago is an aerial threat, again the point is he can defend aerial balls..something Wilshere cannot.

And dribbling? Who cares if Wilshere is more explosive? If he is or not, the facts are Thiago dribbles more players per game in less minutes.

And if anything, he does it in tighter spaces..which is more important to our game.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Donuts on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:51 pm

danyjr, betting on Wilshere is such a risky business considering his nickname is Mr. Wheelchair Wilshere, 1 injury can ruin is development easily.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:07 pm

Before you jump and use the word 'destroyed' remember that football is a team game with 11 players on each side and stop using descriptions such as X destroyed Y like it is a boxing match. Even the best player in the world will get "destroyed" if put on the wrong team. But if you are obsessed with using the word (you are), how about you go back a few years when Wilshere "destroyed" your entire midfield down in Emirates Laughing

Watch Osasuna vs Barcelona last season and see how you lost the battle in midfield because of Thiago playing deep and unable to orchestrate anything from there.

Thiago dribbles more players than Thiago per game? Wilshere wins more balls than Thiago per game.

Oh, and I expect you to back up your suggestion that Thiago is faster than Wilshere. Link or it didn't happen.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:09 pm

@Donuts wrote:danyjr, betting on Wilshere is such a risky business considering his nickname is Mr. Wheelchair Wilshere, 1 injury can ruin is development easily.
I don't think he's injury prone. He plays with a lot of intensity and rarely gets rested and he was only 19. Wenger is to blame imo. Every teenager would get injured the way Wilshere was playing.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:27 pm

Link? Link what? Have you linked anything? No? Well then.

Before you start talking about its a team game with 11 vs 11 remember that I actually watched the game, whereas clearly you did not. It was nothing to do with Wilshere being on the wrong team.

Eriksen got in behind Wilshere time after time after time and literally ripped England open. Its not Wilsheres fault, again, he is not a great defensive player...but you seem to think he is a great tackler and so on and so forth, ignoring, he isnt actually at that level as the game clearly showed.

Pleases stop gassing about Osasuna, as you said, link or it didnt happen. Show us where Thiago couldnt do those things. I bet you cannot show how he was at fault for the loss at all.

Thiago dribbles more than Wilshere in less minutes.

Of course Wilshere makes more tackles..he plays considerably more minutes and his team has much less of the ball.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by sportsczy on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:51 pm

I don't think you can go wrong with either Wilshere or Thiago tbh... they have different traits. But both do the job very well for young players.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:54 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I don't think you can go wrong with either Wilshere or Thiago tbh... they have different traits. But both do the job very well for young players.

I agree with this, I dont know who is the better player is.

I do however know which one is more likely to well for Barcelona though.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by danyjr on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:59 pm

I used the Osasuna match as the example of Thiago failing while playing deep (while there are plenty of other matches). You keep using that Denmark match as yours. Hypocrite much?

Also, expecting a player who just turned 19 year old on his debut start in England as your evidence to how bad he is playing deep :bow:

Of course Wilshere makes more tackles..he plays considerably more minutes and his team has much less of the ball.
I could say the same about Thiago completing more dribbles. More possession = more opportunity to dribble hmm

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:22 pm

@danyjr wrote:I used the Osasuna match as the example of Thiago failing while playing deep (while there are plenty of other matches). You keep using that Denmark match as yours. Hypocrite much?

Also, expecting a player who just turned 19 year old on his debut start in England as your evidence to how bad he is playing deep :bow:

Of course Wilshere makes more tackles..he plays considerably more minutes and his team has much less of the ball.
I could say the same about Thiago completing more dribbles. More possession = more opportunity to dribble hmm

Because that Osasuna match is just fabricated garbage. What happened with Eriksen is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxiHC7ugzvw

First play, he gets in behind Wilshere who is completely unaware. Wilshere the speed demon cannot catch him. If Bendtner wasnt crap, perhaps that a goal.

Later on, Eriksen in between the lines, Wilshere nowhere near the play. Almost a goal. Not compact at all, in no man's land.

Net play, Eriksen in between the lines. Wilshere and Lamps not closing the space in between the lines at all, far too easy for him.

Last play, England as a whole nowhere near Eriksen as he rips them open.

And these are just "highlights"...dont show all the other times he just got a touch and laid it off with no pressure.

I am sorry, what? England debut? Who gives a crap? Bottom line he showed he isnt the most aware defensive player.


And no, you cant say the same about Thiago dribbling..because even though yes Barca have more possession, he plays so many less minutes. Wilshere averages more touches per game, because of his superior minutes, but still less dribbles.

More minutes, more touches and still less dribbles? What does that tell you?





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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by CBarca on Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:30 pm

Danyjr are you serious?

I mean I can understand rating them about the same, or even rating Wilshere higher (I disagree however), but to me it's obvious who is better for Barca and better to replace Xavi.

Thiagoo0o00oo000

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by free_cat on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:35 am

The funniest thing is that Thiago was sensational at Osasuna last season. We lost, but thiago was the only player driving us forward and carried the team on his shoulders. I remember that match perfectly.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by Donuts on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:16 am

Thiago should get more game time since Xavi will be out for a two weeks or so, hopefully he'll shed some light to danyjr that he has potential to replace Xavi

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by free_cat on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:38 am

The key to this is that there's no need to replace Xavi.
We can build a great team even if we never have a new Xavi. Thiago or Cesc can replace him and obviously our game will change cause they are different players, but we can still be a great team and playing within our philosophy, which is to attack, entertain, score goals, win and have the ball.
Xavi is not indispensable to do these things.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:21 pm

@free_cat wrote:The funniest thing is that Thiago was sensational at Osasuna last season. We lost, but thiago was the only player driving us forward and carried the team on his shoulders. I remember that match perfectly.

Oh wait, that was the Osasuna game? For some reason I thought Bilbao?

My god, danyjr just when I thought you couldnt be a bigger joke. Thiago was gigantic in this game, one of his best games ever I felt, the only player on the pitch playing.

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by free_cat on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:34 pm



None of Osasuna's three goals was caused by any turnover from Thiago. Thiago contributed in Alexis goal. He was also very good bringing the ball forward in this game. Masche played as DM and he had the role to come deep and bring it forward as Masche is unable.

Stats from the game:
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523278/LiveStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2011-2012-Osasuna-Barcelona
Thiago is the only player with above 7 of the starters (Cesc, Cuenca and Tello played in the second half and got also 7s as the second half was much better).

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by windkick on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:43 am

Should we move this discussion to the Thiago thread and leave this one for the transfer rumors discussion? This is getting completely derailed

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Franchise on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:57 pm

Dont worry, its dead now. Even if Danyjr says something, I cant be bothered with it.
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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by free_cat on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:20 pm

Can't say anything else after my ownage. Very Happy

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by CBarca on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:26 pm

Showed how shite he was today didn't he? Laughing

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Re: Transfer Rumors

Post by The Sanchez on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:35 pm

@CBarca wrote:Showed how shite he was today didn't he? Laughing

Had a really crap game... Should be sold. :coffee:
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