Joe Allen = The GOAT

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Curtinho on Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:49 pm

Joe Allen is class I said it before and I'll say it again. Him and Henderson in our midfield is a godsend especially when playing the diamond. If he's fit he should be a starter for us IMO. Also his offensive contribution is a bit underrated -- he's getting his confidence back after a tumultuous season last year. If he can find it fully he can be effective going forward.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Red Alert on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:32 am

@Art Morte wrote:Midfield hasn't been the problem in the last two games, we've controlled those games (Villa and Ludo) comfortably. It's been the final third that's been problematic and Allen's contributions there are usually not that significant.

Obviously hoping him to be still fit soon, though.


You speak the truth

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Helmer on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:21 pm

The movement is in the final third has been regid recently, no understanding whatsoever and too slow sometimes , hopefully we start performing well enough, we need to get three points before Studge comes back, that's all that matters.

Allen is also imp with his grown balls from preseason but I doubt he would have changed anything in the Villa game.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Natalie Portman on Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:30 pm

Having majority of possession IS NOT dominating the midfield.

Allen injects pace, energy, and intensity to our midfield passing and it's something that has been missing in the last 2 games and it's been too lethargic. .

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by iftikhar on Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:22 pm

Mad :brickwall:

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Helmer on Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:11 pm

In City game, it was clear from the starting 10 minutes that Allen has gained confidence from last few games. Under pressure from City players, he played two very good passes, one to Coutinho and one to Sterling (not sure but to some player in midfield in behind city's midfield line). And he continued that throughout the 90 minutes.

If he keeps doing that, the front three can concentrate on attacking. It is just that against small teams, who are already sitting deep, you desire little more from Allen, because he is the player who is generally in more space compared to any other player in our midfield against weaker teams. But he still, a very good player to have.

Another issue with him is, when we counter attack if he can make some brave decisions but little faster than he does now, he can be undroppable for our team (specially in home games).

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Natalie Portman on Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:29 pm

Best performance since his first 3 months today.

Absolutely imperious. Everyone at the pub was singing his praise.

Well in Joe, kick on...he's really stepped up after Lucas' injury.

Some of his passes into space for Cou/Lallana were prime Iniesta-esque. Thing with Allen is consistency, you get this kind of awesome performance from him and you wonder why he can't produce these more often.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Helmer on Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:36 pm

you have to give him the glasses where he will see every player as ManCity player on the pitch !

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Curtinho on Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:30 am

Easy to forget Allen is still young and not yet in his prime. He could find consistency yet. The quality is there.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Art Morte on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:17 am

His best performance of the season.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by iftikhar on Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:46 am

El Cujo wrote:Easy to forget Allen is still young and not yet in his prime. He could find consistency yet. The quality is there.
He isn't that young anymore. He will be 25 in few days and that's an age when you should be a finished product. Also, he has played 125 games over four seasons at top level.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Helmer on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:32 am

I dont know what everyone expects him to do. Hes been best at what he does and that is what we need from him. He will never be Lucas because he wont tackle like Lucas but he really injects pace in the midfield and developes space for others to play. Henderson seems to be enjoying more space when he is paired with Allen compared to when he is paired with Lucas.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Curtinho on Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:43 pm

Like I said missing Lucas when we have a healthy Allen is not a big deal IMO, as long as Allen stays confident and on his game.

Also 25 is still young IMO. Midfielders and defenders tend to peak later in their 20s and into their 30s IMO. Especially ones like Allen.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Helmer on Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:57 pm

Spoiler:

:bow:

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Art Morte on Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:43 pm

Joe Allen, the ex-Swansea player now a Liverpool player, has 0 goals and 1 assist in the Premier League this season. We paid Swansea £15m for Allen.

Jonjo Shelvey, the ex-Liverpool player now a Swansea player, has 3 goals and 4 assists in the Premier League this season. Swansea paid £5m for Shelvey.

Dat business acumen.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Nishankly on Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:00 pm

Im quite sure none of us wanted Shelves to leave but understood the decision to sell him. He's caused them as much harm as he's given them happiness.

Allen's probably at the peak of the career and he's not anything more than a good squad player for us.

That said, He has qualities that can make a great CM in a 3 man midfield.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Art Morte on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:00 pm

No.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Don't call me James on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:16 pm

I'd like to redirect you to my comment in the transfer thread about him.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Nishankly on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:31 pm

Is really goals from the midfield an issue for us right now?

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Art Morte on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:40 pm

Allen shouldn't be rated on goals, but he simply hasn't "qualities that can make a great CM in a 3 man midfield".

Let's put it this way that if Mark Noble or Jack Colback had the number of games in our midfield that Allen has had, they would have put in at least the same number of decent performances that Allen has. Heck, Charlie Adam had a better impression-ratio than Allen has had, imo. Sure, Allen manages to look decent every once in a while, but judging by his overall performance level, he's not good enough for us (and I'd rather have Shelvey than him).

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Nishankly on Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:43 pm

I personally think he's good enough to remain in the LFC squad for another season or two.

Was very surprised when Adam was binned and Henderson wasnt tbh. Always like a thug in the center of the pitch.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by RedOranje on Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:49 pm

@Art Morte wrote:Allen shouldn't be rated on goals, but he simply hasn't "qualities that can make a great CM in a 3 man midfield".

Let's put it this way that if Mark Noble or Jack Colback had the number of games in our midfield that Allen has had, they would have put in at least the same number of decent performances that Allen has. Heck, Charlie Adam had a better impression-ratio than Allen has had, imo. Sure, Allen manages to look decent every once in a while, but judging by his overall performance level, he's not good enough for us (and I'd rather have Shelvey than him).
Dear god no.


And Shelvey in CM, especially in the deeper role Allen has often occupied, tended to end poorly for us nearly every time. Even now for Swansea Shelvey tends to struggle a bit when asked to do notable defensive work and pressing, and shines only when allowed to focus his energies going forward. He's not lazy, but he's still rash in the challenge far too often, poor at reading opponents' play, and generally unreliable in trying to contain opposition or win the ball back.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by iftikhar on Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:17 am

If I look at Allen (only him, not Jonjo or anyone else) situation objectively,

1. He is definitely not worth the 15 mil we paid.
2. He is definitely not starting quality.
3. He is a decent-to-good squad option.

This guy reminds me of Babel. Had/has potential but never really blossomed.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Red Alert on Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:09 am

@RedOranje wrote:


And Shelvey in CM, especially in the deeper role Allen has often occupied, tended to end poorly for us nearly every time. Even now for Swansea Shelvey tends to struggle a bit when asked to do notable defensive work and pressing, and shines only when allowed to focus his energies going forward. He's not lazy, but he's still rash in the challenge far too often, poor at reading opponents' play, and generally unreliable in trying to contain opposition or win the ball back.


You've literally explained Allen at the same time though.

Shelvey was always going to be an attacking midfielder. Unfortunately for him, he has Siggurdson in front of him. But he's too much of a talent to have on the bench so has to play in the middle of the park for Swansea. They'd be better off rotating Sig/Shelvey and playing Ki in midfield.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by RedOranje on Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:34 pm

Except that none of those things apply to Allen. He's not reckless, he's can read the game, and he's demonstrated repeatedly against top opposition that he can play a role focusing largely on pressing and obstructing play. He's not physical which STILL seems to be the only element people look for in a midfield when discussing ability to play defensively for some reason, but he's miles ahead of Shelvey in the categories mentioned. It also explains the statistical differences... Allen has never really been asked to be a goal threat so its meaningless to compare his goals-scored to a player who's entire game is really built about that.

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

Post by Red Alert on Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:25 am

Maybe we're not watching the same player.

He may not be reckless, but the opposition get passed him as easy as they would Steven Gerrard for an example.

Allen can only read the game when Liverpool has possession; he has no tactical awareness when we don't have it. He's a decent back up to have, and looked like a player with huge potential when he first joined, but he's stagnated with a lack of consistent football for us.

And would you really say Shelvey's entire game at Swansea is built upon goals? Because I'm quite certain he's playing that "playmaker" role from deep / central midfield. With Siggurdson being the 10. Well, that's from what I've seen of Swansea anyway so you could correct me if I'm wrong.

Joe can play a pressing role, and kudos to him, but so could Jay Spearing... we need much more than that.

As bad as Charlie Adam was, he was quite solid before Lucas got injured. His downfall (and the whole teams really) came after that when he was atrocious in his last 6 months here playing in a position that was foreign to him. So for that, they're both in the same tier for that "impression" role. That tier being "looked the goods, but never really improved and thus didn't really do that extra something a top side would need".

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Re: Joe Allen = The GOAT

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