La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Jonathan28 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:26 am

There was a big row on Barcaforum, with this guy called Jiopi(Jiopsi?) about the whole Messi and Villa argument. There were days of him trash talking the likes of Xavi and Iniesta, saying that they weren't integral to Barca's success like Messi was so thats why Messi had the right to have a go at Villa. He brought out a lot of stats(I swear, it must be Jiopsi) trying to prove that Messi was the best passer then Xavi, better goalscorer, better dribbler then Iniesta etc, he even said garbage like Xavi only won so much because he played for a good Spain team so he never deserved a Balon D'Or whilst Messi did.

Of courseno one was having that pile of garbage, we did eventually get him to admit that he only supported Messi and that he didn't care at all about Barca. But sadly, he was not the only one like that. Sometimes I joke that if Messi left half of the club "supporters" would go with him, now I ain't joking no more.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:37 pm

@The Franchise wrote:I aint even going to bother arguing such sillyness. All I will say is, come on chat the next time Barca play (not Madrid or CL game) and I will gladly point out what Messi is doing wrong live. That way you cant hide behind meaningless stats.

Same goes for dude who claims Messi doesnt stand there complaining at refs for decisions when he could be pressing the ball.
Jesus you are annoying, nobody said that he was doing everything right, or did they, can you point that out where somebody said that? Everyone can see when Messi looses the ball or doesn't chase it, they aren't blind. And lol at referring stats, when my arguments were pretty much everything but stats.

So people tackle him out, no foul, and he should not be sitting there but get up immediately and run his ass off? Nobody does that in the whole world, not at least with the treatment he gets. Now days when he runs people will grab his shirt and slow him down every time, now that obviously slows down attack, but player don't get the deserved yellows from it, not usually at least.

Example

Spoiler:

How about saying Xavi had an awful game? He lost the ball 3 times, Messi 5, yet he wasn't crowded as much and he didn't create anything the sorts of Messi. Yeah don't bother arguing about it, because you are wrong, and if you can't see it, like I said, you're also blind. You probably should concentrate more on the match than on the chat.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by kiranr on Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:32 pm


Jiopsi, nobody is criticizing what Messi does on the ball. Everyone is criticizing about his off the ball work. No one is criticizing him for losing those 5 balls, but they are criticizing him for what he does after he loses the ball.

Sure he is fouled a lot and that does get very tiresome, but i have seen instances where he could have just put a little effort to win the ball back. His lack of defending destabilizes the high backline Barcelona play and sometimes is the reason why we concede so many chances.

The people on here just want to see him put the effort he used to off-the-ball. He used to be a very good presser, but over the past 2 seasons, that has deteriorated and Barcelona have suffered a bit due to that. Don't you agree?
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:11 pm

IM annoying lol..hilarity.

Why would I say Xavi had a bad game? Messi has been bad all season, while Xavi has been fantastic.

Not to mention, I said Messi and basically everyone (go read what I said) played bad...I mentioned Messi specifically because he is supposed to be our best player but I excluded noone.

But as I said, come on chat next time. I will point out Messi loosing the ball, not because he is trying to dribble, but because through slack play and you can bum-lick him and try to defend him.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:11 pm

@The Franchise wrote:IM annoying lol..hilarity.

Why would I say Xavi had a bad game? Messi has been bad all season, while Xavi has been fantastic.

Not to mention, I said Messi and basically everyone (go read what I said) played bad...I mentioned Messi specifically because he is supposed to be our best player but I excluded noone.

But as I said, come on chat next time. I will point out Messi loosing the ball, not because he is trying to dribble, but because through slack play and you can bum-lick him and try to defend him.

On a general level Messi has been our best player of the season, yet he has been far from fantastic, but neither has Xavi been anything like fantastic. Xavi used to be a passing weapon, a creative weapon, and we hadn't only rely on one player like we now must. Nowadays he chooses more and more the easy way out, not the creative and risky pass, but the easier pass. On a way you could say he's more concerned on his passing ratio and possession, than how team plays and tries to create something.

Xavi throughballs 09-13: 1.0 - 0.8 - 0.6 - 0.2 per game.

If you can't see that, you are probably riding Xavi so deep, that you can't see where the game starts and Xavi ends.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:29 pm

Messi our best player this season......you have zero credibility after a statement such as that. Not that you had any to begin with.

Bringing up passing stats mean yothing to me, I have seen you try and debate alex on this point, your talking out your backside.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:36 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Messi our best player this season......you have zero credibility after a statement such as that. Not that you had any to begin with.

Bringing up passing stats mean yothing to me, I have seen you try and debate alex on this point, your talking out your backside.

Yes of course it does, go any rating site, fan site etc. and every one will list Messi ahead of anybody, and it can be argued easily why he has been our best player. Not on his own standards, but on general standards.

So what has Alex got to do with this? You are trying to direct the debate in every which way direction, looking help, rather than actually trying to defend your original arguments. Pathetic.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by vivabarca38 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:09 pm

Messi has been our most important player.Not the best.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:11 pm

Who cares what rating sites say? They are just people with opinion...doesnt make it factual. People are always going to rate someone who scores a goal highly, regardless of how they actually played.

What has Alex got to do with it? I am telling you not to waste your time giving me the same arguements you gave him. They were rubbish then and they are rubbish now.

Debate? There is no debate here. Just one Messi fanbory who cant see whats directly in front of his face...and there is me, someone who really is tired of hearing your lame arguements. I dont have to defend my points, I have already made them and they are clear to see.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:29 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Who cares what rating sites say? They are just people with opinion...doesnt make it factual. People are always going to rate someone who scores a goal highly, regardless of how they actually played.

What has Alex got to do with it? I am telling you not to waste your time giving me the same arguements you gave him. They were rubbish then and they are rubbish now.

Debate? There is no debate here. Just one Messi fanbory who cant see whats directly in front of his face...and there is me, someone who really is tired of hearing your lame arguements. I dont have to defend my points, I have already made them and they are clear to see.
Nobody cares, but I find it rather comical that you tried to question my integrity about what I believe, and when pretty much every one else is saying the same thing.

Same arguments to you than him? Of course I will use arguments that I believe. There is no debate, because you are not defending your arguments.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:50 pm

Really? Everyone else is saying Messi has been our best player this season? Take a poll on this section and lets see if thats the case.

Nope, not defending anything. Messi was poor by his standards, said it at the time and say it again. Further elaboration isnt needed. end of story.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Donuts on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:54 pm

Messi poor for his standards is still the worlds best don't mistake that.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:59 pm

@The Franchise wrote:Really? Everyone else is saying Messi has been our best player this season? Take a poll on this section and lets see if thats the case.

Nope, not defending anything. Messi was poor by his standards, said it at the time and say it again. Further elaboration isnt needed. end of story.
Again you are missing the point. You tried to question what I said, based on what I represent to you, rather than judging what I said. When pretty much everyone else are saying the same thing, rating sites, and fan site polls etc.

Maybe you should revisit your own agendas and beliefs more than trying to question others?
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:09 pm

No, I question what you said because your wrong. I also say that the reason you think like this is likely because your head is in the sand when it comes to Messi and you no longer (and really never had) any objectivity.

Pretty much everyone says it? Where? Damn sure not on here.

Bringing rating sites mean nothing to me, I already explained that.

My agenda? The success of Barcelona...shame yours isnt the same.
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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by pewpew on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:12 pm

how has messi been bad?

He has scored in almost every game he has played. tongue He is just carrying on like he left last season. He has become somewhat lazy maybe and lost that sparkle he had as a dribbler once when he was leaner but he is still scoring a shitload of goals + assists which are crucial for his team.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:15 pm

@The Franchise wrote:No, I question what you said because your wrong. I also say that the reason you think like this is likely because your head is in the sand when it comes to Messi and you no longer (and really never had) any objectivity.

Pretty much everyone says it? Where? Damn sure not on here.

Bringing rating sites mean nothing to me, I already explained that.
That's a nice attitude, "you're wrong because I said so" "I won't defend it, I won't argue about it." You are so far on your a high horse that you can't even see when your horse is drowning beneath you.

goal.com
whoscored.com
totalbarca.com
barcaforum.com

Next you will probably say, lol at using goal.com as anything concrete, well it's not the only place where they say it. And again, it's not even about the fact that they say it, rather having attitude, that ones opinion is worthless because what he represent to you.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by shinigami99 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:16 pm

I think that when Messi has retired/left, we are going to miss him even at his poorest.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Jonathan28 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:01 am

Xavi has been our best player this season. I thought this was common knowledge....

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by CBarca on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:22 am

@Donuts wrote:
@CBarca wrote:WTF Jiopsi get out, you are not a Barca fan. You support Messi more than Barca, I've never seen you post in here about Barca in general, only if it's about Messi. That says something, yes?

I'm sure if Messi left you would leave right with him, as Dani said. 100% sure of it.
I support Messi over Barcelona but that doesn't mean I cannot be a fan of Barca.. scratch

How did you get that from my post? I was responding to Jiopsi anyway

You can certainly support Barca even if you are a fan of Messi over Barcelona (I don't understand that but whatever floats your boat), but my point is that Jiopsi is most certainly NOT a fan of Barcelona. He's never discussed Barca on their own, only when it concerns Messi. He only cares that Messi does well in a game, and he only wants Barca to do well for Messi's sake, he is no Barca fan though, he doesn't do it for Barca's fake.

He would jump ship with Messi, if Messi left, no doubt about it.

Clear now?

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:51 am

jiopsi wrote:
@The Franchise wrote:No, I question what you said because your wrong. I also say that the reason you think like this is likely because your head is in the sand when it comes to Messi and you no longer (and really never had) any objectivity.

Pretty much everyone says it? Where? Damn sure not on here.

Bringing rating sites mean nothing to me, I already explained that.
That's a nice attitude, "you're wrong because I said so" "I won't defend it, I won't argue about it." You are so far on your a high horse that you can't even see when your horse is drowning beneath you.

goal.com
whoscored.com
totalbarca.com
barcaforum.com

Next you will probably say, lol at using goal.com as anything concrete, well it's not the only place where they say it. And again, it's not even about the fact that they say it, rather having attitude, that ones opinion is worthless because what he represent to you.

No, your wrong because your wrong, im just pointing it out for you. If im on a high horse, its because you are beneath me and every moment I write a post and press the send but button, I feel it has been a bitter waste of my time.

Those websites mean nothing to me, they are just people with opinions. I dont know how well educated they are in terms of football, I know nothing about them. What I do know is, the world best player who is an incredbly likeable guy is scoring goals...who could misplace every pass, but if he scores he is going to get a favourable rating. This is twice I have said this already there will not be a third.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by free_cat on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:07 am

I would say it's quite clear that this begining of season there isn't any standout performer to call "the best player so far".
Messi has scored goals, but that's what you expect of Barça's striker. What he is doing so far, Eto'o could do it, and no one considered Eto'o our best player.
On the other hand Xavi has had some brilliant games, together with some poor ones. Iniesta has been injured, Cesc generally bad, Alexis horrible, Busquets hot and cold, and our defence except Adriano has been bad or injured (Puyol and Pique). Pedro has been good in all games, but off course, he is not a megacrack and can't achieve the levels of play of our stars.

So I think that Messi, Xavi, Pedro and Adriano have been the three best players so far, but to say that Messi has been the best with the level he is showing is going too far IMO.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by alexjanosik on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:53 am

Thing with Messi is that he is unbelievably lethal and cutthroat.
Even playing poorly,he can still score or assist anytime.He has been playing poorly this season but still been extremely lethal when it counts.
Dont think he has been our best player by any stretch of the imagination though.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by neuro11 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:00 pm

@free_cat wrote:I would say it's quite clear that this begining of season there isn't any standout performer to call "the best player so far".
Messi has scored goals, but that's what you expect of Barça's striker. What he is doing so far, Eto'o could do it, and no one considered Eto'o our best player.
On the other hand Xavi has had some brilliant games, together with some poor ones. Iniesta has been injured, Cesc generally bad, Alexis horrible, Busquets hot and cold, and our defence except Adriano has been bad or injured (Puyol and Pique). Pedro has been good in all games, but off course, he is not a megacrack and can't achieve the levels of play of our stars.

So I think that Messi, Xavi, Pedro and Adriano have been the three best players so far, but to say that Messi has been the best with the level he is showing is going too far IMO.

Pretty much sums up other than the bold part. Eto could score? may be but now no one other than him is there to do so. In fact Messi has scored some tap ins and very simple assists this season but if he is not there others can not guarantee those. thats why even a poor version of him is still more lethal than others.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by Harmonica on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:36 pm

@The Franchise wrote:No, your wrong because your wrong, im just pointing it out for you. If im on a high horse, its because you are beneath me and every moment I write a post and press the send but button, I feel it has been a bitter waste of my time.

Those websites mean nothing to me, they are just people with opinions. I dont know how well educated they are in terms of football, I know nothing about them. What I do know is, the world best player who is an incredbly likeable guy is scoring goals...who could misplace every pass, but if he scores he is going to get a favourable rating. This is twice I have said this already there will not be a third.
My point exactly, defend your argument or stop wasting your and my time and run where ever you wan't to.

I couldn't care less if they mean anything to you, I was pointing your naiveness/ biasness making conclusions based on a opinion, which is actually one of the most had opinion amongst fans and viewers. It's actually you who just lost all credibility when you first singled out Messi having a particularly bad game, then moved how fantastic Xavi has been during the season when questioned about this game.

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Re: La Liga Round 6: Sevilla vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:24 pm

Your the only one wasting time here, I have said everything I have to say on the issue. I have no need to defend anything, my point is already made.

I didnt single out Messi, you should learn to read.

[quote="The Franchise"]



Our defence is horrible...truly horrible. Alba is as inept defensively as he is good going forward, Valdes doesnt make any saves anymore, Mascherano has exactly 1 skill...tackling..while being below par in basically everything else and meanwhile Song clearly isnt a centerback defensively.

For the goals, Alves stopped the guy using his stronger right foot, which was correct. Alba didnt do this same thing and Negredo almost scored. However, to my surprise he didnt dive into block the shot which he usually does. He should of done that. Though Valdes to me should of done better also.

The 2nd, Busi simply cant lose the ball there. From there,, Song had to foul and get red or let him go..he did the wise thing.

The comeback was great. Cesc didnt play well fundementally but I was very happy with his drive and of course goalscoring. He was at least demanding the ball in counter attacks and was driving forward with it. His play before his goal, especially in terms of moving into correct position wasnt great but he more than made up for it.

Messi and basically everyone else wasnt good. Soon will come the time to question when or even if Messi will return. Anyone who cant see his bad play is clearly decieving himself.

/quote]

Even though if I did, I am well in my rights seeing as he is our best player and is held up to that standard which he is not reaching and hasnt reached this season.

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