Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by vanDEEZ on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:21 pm

the problem is- this happens every single year. kaka will hav 1-2 good games and everyone is like OMG KAKA IS BACK and then he plays against a big club and it looks like he forgets how to play football.

so no, im not quick to welcome him back as this has happened literally every single season he has been here and he always disappoints

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by hrealmadrid on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:25 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:the problem is- this happens every single year. kaka will hav 1-2 good games and everyone is like OMG KAKA IS BACK and then he plays against a big club and it looks like he forgets how to play football.

so no, im not quick to welcome him back as this has happened literally every single season he has been here and he always disappoints

This.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by FalcaoPunch on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:59 pm

Yeah this is almost a habit for him now

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Nedved on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:17 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:the problem is- this happens every single year. kaka will hav 1-2 good games and everyone is like OMG KAKA IS BACK and then he plays against a big club and it looks like he forgets how to play football.

so no, im not quick to welcome him back as this has happened literally every single season he has been here and he always disappoints

Although I agree with vanDEEZ. I am happy to see KAKA playing well, esp at the time when Ozil is not in form. This gives more options. My bet Ozil will start along with D'Maria. Modric & Kaka coming as subs if needed.

If Ozil flops in clasico, Kaka/Modric will get more play time in future.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Onyx on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:19 pm

Maybe Mourinho was playing him to show him off to potential buyers. hmm

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Nedved on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:27 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Maybe Mourinho was playing him to show him off to potential buyers. hmm

Yes. It was perfect timing as Ozil is flopping anyway. It was a message to 1) Potential buyers 2) Ozil to step-up.

I wish he can do the same to Ramos. He looks to be a Robben in making Wink

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Onyx on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:40 pm

Well he already did vs Man City, although Ramos hasn't been playing badly imo.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Nedved on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:47 pm

I meant on a regular basis so that no place is taken for granted.

He is not playing badly, but he is also not playing well enough. He uses less of his brain and more of his mouth. Attitude is more important. At the moment I am not impressed with his.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 pm

Kaka seems hungrier for success atm

Without question Ozil is the team's best passer but 6 games into the new season and he is yet to replicate his form from last season. Kaka on the other hand showed a lot of hunger and determination each time he was given a chance to play this season, he was scintillating against Ajax and gave the best CAM performance of the season hands down.

Kaka made 4 assists in 6 appearances for Madrid so far if we include the World football Challenge, and had a 67% shot on goal rate, while Ozil has appeared 8 more times than Kaka yet only had 3 total assists (none in La Liga) and only a 14% shot on goal rate. If we consider the Millonarios fixture (granted it was a friendly) Kaka's tally improves to 3 goals and an extra assist.

Even though Ajax isn't exactly Barcelona it nonetheless was Kaka's toughest test to date this season and he passed it with flying colors, every time he played this season he had an effect on the scoreline. A comment left on a blog I recently visited put it elegantly Kaka looks more dangerous than Ozil right now.

Instead of giving all the playing time to Ozil due to his youth and past assist record it's about time that Kaka got the playing time he has earned through his hard work, for that reason both Kaka and Ozil should play the El Clasico (possibly even start together - though it wouldn't be fair on DI Maria who's been great) and the player who decides to show up for the match should rightly be awarded a spot on the starting lineup.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:49 pm

Problem is Kaka's passing is still shit, and turnovers are just as bad.

Ozil always steps up against Barcelona so for me it's a no brainer, we need someone who is amazing at passing the ball and won't turn it over easily against Barcelona for me that's Ozil not Kaka.

Kaka always performs against shit clubs just look at his track record never has he ever performed when we actually needed it.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by red&blacklegion on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:55 pm

Kaka is playing in the wrong role IMO. He was perfect in the christmas tree formation .

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:05 am

Kaka's passing is not !@#$%^&*granted it's not as good as Mesut's passing ability.

Last season Kaka completed 688 passes in La Liga out of 875, this means his passing accuracy in La Liga last season was 79%. For this reason I have to say his passing is nowhere near !@#$%^&*, statistically his passing in La Liga was above average.

How about Ozil well he didn't do that much better than Kaka last year in La Liga he had a passing accuracy of 80% only better by a percent. This is some serious food for thought sir, I got the statistics for this calculations from the official English Real Madrid website.


Last edited by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:09 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:06 am

@red&blacklegion wrote:Kaka is playing in the wrong role IMO. He was perfect in the christmas tree formation .

no longer good enough to be the focal point of a team and also good players adapt to different formations

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by the xcx on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:06 am

who are you trying to fool, huntsman?

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:16 am

@Crimson wrote:

Kaka always performs against shit clubs just look at his track record never has he ever performed when we actually needed it.

Okay I will grant that Ozil is superb in tight games, problem is he is experiencing a dip in form, all the same he tends to fare better than Kaka in tight games and I am also hoping he starts the El Clasico.

That said as I pointed out in my previous post Kaka's passing accuracy in La Liga last season was only separated from Mesut's by 1%, and on top of this Kaka presents another threat to the opponents that Ozil doesn't, namely his ability to get into the box and mean dipping shots, on top of being a play maker he is a goal scorer, and as we saw yesterday his defensive work rate has improved drastically.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:18 am

@Crimson wrote:

no longer good enough to be the focal point of a team and also good players adapt to different formations

I disagree he can be the focal point of many teams, not just at Madrid due to Ronaldo who is beast. Anyway Kaka's performance for the club so far this news season has shown that he can still perform at the world class level

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:30 am

@Roundsquare wrote:Kaka's passing is not !@#$%^&*granted it's nowhere near Mesuts passing ability.


v Bayern passing it was 67%, turned over the ball twice and was dispossessed twice
v Ajax it was 67% turnovers 2 and dispossessed 3 times


He is great against shit teams I will grant him that yet to perform once when we have needed him to since joining Madrid though. All his goal and assists in Liga last season were against teams in the bottom half of the table, all his performances in the UCL were against utter shit teams. Sad but true.

Utter waste of money







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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:42 am

@Crimson wrote:
v Bayern passing it was 67%, turned over the ball twice and was dispossessed twice
v Ajax it was 67% turnovers 2 and dispossessed 3 times


He is great against shit teams I will grant him that yet to perform once when we have needed him to since joining Madrid though. All his goal and assists in Liga last season were against teams in the bottom half of the table, all his performances in the UCL were against utter shit teams. Sad but true.

Utter waste of money

Lol since when is 67% a poor result it's average at worst, that said why are you overlooking the statistics which show that on the whole last season in La Liga Kaka and Mesut were virtually tied re passing accuracy. Pointing out an individual game is not really that helpful since players have good games and poor games.

I don't know which Ajax match you're referring to but at the most recent one Kaka was one of the best players on the pitch his off the ball work rate was superb and he was connected well with his teammates as well especially given especially his lack of playing time.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:58 am

@Crimson wrote:


He is great against shit teams I will grant him that yet to perform once when we have needed him to since joining Madrid though. All his goal and assists in Liga last season were against teams in the bottom half of the table, all his performances in the UCL were against utter shit teams. Sad but true.

Utter waste of money







Kaka could only play the games that were put before him. The coach didn't give him a lot of important games, he didn't play against Sevilla at all, he was a late substitute in the Valencia match.

Kaka however did have a great Copa del Rey semifinals against Barcelona even though he wasn't yet fully fit at the time, and in the 3-1 loss to Barcelona he came in at the 57th minute and outplayed Ozil as well as Ronaldo (who was the flop of the match). So Kaka has been good in big games as well but of course he has also had poor games and awful games like any other player.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:44 am

@Roundsquare wrote:
@Crimson wrote:


He is great against shit teams I will grant him that yet to perform once when we have needed him to since joining Madrid though. All his goal and assists in Liga last season were against teams in the bottom half of the table, all his performances in the UCL were against utter shit teams. Sad but true.

Utter waste of money







Kaka could only play the games that were put before him. The coach didn't give him a lot of important games, he didn't play against Sevilla at all, he was a late substitute in the Valencia match.

Kaka however did have a great Copa del Rey semifinals against Barcelona even though he wasn't yet fully fit at the time, and in the 3-1 loss to Barcelona he came in at the 57th minute and outplayed Ozil as well as Ronaldo (who was the flop of the match). So Kaka has been good in big games as well but of course he has also had poor games and awful games like any other player.

live in you're dream world if you wish

playing well against Ajax and some shit ass Colombian team does not make him World Class

Performing well only against teams who are on the bottom half of the table does not make him world class

When we have needed him he has done nothing = fact

Is he worth even 10m on the current market? No

Would we be better off if he left? Yes

Is his best move since joining Madrid grabbing the ball and running into players and then losing the ball? Yes

Again he is great against scrub teams, brilliant at that, but I think we can find someone else a little cheaper than 12m a year to polish off scrub teams lmao.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by pewpew on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:58 am

Got to agree with my boy Crimson here Kaka has been crap against any decent opposition and loses the ball too often. He likewise Higuain doesnt step up for Madrid in the big games when Madrid are in trouble.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:04 am

@Crimson wrote:

playing well against Ajax and some !@#$%^&* !@#$%^&* Colombian team does not make him World Class

Performing well only against teams who are on the bottom half of the table does not make him world class

When we have needed him he has done nothing = fact

Is he worth even 10m on the current market? No

Would we be better off if he left? Yes

Is his best move since joining Madrid grabbing the ball and running into players and then losing the ball? Yes

Again he is great against scrub teams, brilliant at that, but I think we can find someone else a little cheaper than 12m a year to polish off scrub teams !@#$%^&*.

Lol the facts disagree with you. Kaka did have good games against big teams like I pointed out in my last post, he played well against Barca a few times, one example is in the in the Copa del Rey semi final. And in Preseason he buried AC Milan under 3 assists.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:06 am

@pewpew wrote:Got to agree with my boy Crimson here Kaka has been crap against any decent opposition and loses the ball too often. He likewise Higuain doesnt step up for Madrid in the big games when Madrid are in trouble.

Agree with him at the risk of disavowing the facts.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by huntsman on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:11 am

@pewpew wrote:Got to agree with my boy Crimson here Kaka has been crap against any decent opposition and loses the ball too often. He likewise Higuain doesnt step up for Madrid in the big games when Madrid are in trouble.

Crimson doesnt know what he's talking about; yes he reads numbers but he also fails to make any connection with the numbers. Numbers alone mean nothing; those same numbers are now revealing that Kaka has been excellent this season in every department; he is hungrier than ever for success despite the fact that he has hit a low with Mourinho.

Kaka is not a player suited for Madrid; it is a failure on Mourinho; despite the fact that mourinho is a class manager; when the player fails, when a team member fails; it is also the responsibility of the manager / coach not only the player.

Players have different mind sets; they have different skills and attributes and their talent bar / capacity varies. It is up to the manager to make use of what is at hand, to bring the best out of his players.

Why is Kaka playing well now; why not last season? and does he only perform against mediocre clubs?

you should go beyond that in your readings; Madrid currently is at a boiling point; the players are divided; Ronaldo is not happy; Ramos is screwing his manager, and Iker Casillas is a snitch. Ozil is expressing his dissatisfaction with his current situation. Ironically this is providing a safe haven for Kaka; during a bad time for the club and whilst the manager is busy with his wars with other players; kaka saw a glimpse of hope and he's trying to do his best to climb the pecking order. He's giving it all. That's the explanation of why he's Madrid's second best player at the moment in terms of performance.


No folks, Kaka is not back now; he has already been back since last season.


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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:38 pm

You didn't see 2005-2007 Kaka if you say that he is back. His ability with the ball is bad, he lost his pace, doesn't have the passing ability he had at Milan.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

Post by Roundsquare on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:53 pm

Kizu wrote:You didn't see 2005-2007 Kaka if you say that he is back. His ability with the ball is bad, he lost his pace, doesn't have the passing ability he had at Milan.

Well you didn't see Kaka this season or the last one, he hasn't lost all of his pace, even at 30 he is faster than new signing Modric. In demonstration that he hasn't lost all of his speed he was all over the pitch at the Ajax match on Wednesday, he outpaced the Ajax defenders more than once, and displayed great agility.

Under which definition of 'bad' is Kaka's ball ability bad? Didn't you see how he slipped passed defenders into Ajax' penalty box more than once using silky footwork? As for his passing ability he was Real Madrid's second highest passer last season in La Liga even though he frequently featured as an impact sub and had an above average passing accuracy rate virtually equalling Mesut's passing accuracy rate.

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Re: Ozil (2013) or Kaka (2013)

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