Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:48 am

ynwa wrote:Art, we're never going to play a 4411. There's nothing wrong with the current system. We're dominating games, we just need to take our chances infront of goal.

I know we're not going to play 4-4-1-1, it's just my opinion that.

And the problem is that we are most of the time restricted to half-chances instead of clear-cut ones. Our attacks in the current 4-3-3 are too easy to defend against. Of course there's hope that that will change, but with each passing game where we don't take as many points as we probably should that hope is fading.

Let me ask it this way: By New Year, where's the league position + pts total limit at which you'd sack Rodgers?

We are now 12th and I wouldn't sack him yet; if we are 12th come January, I would sack him.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:12 am

Woy got 12 points from 10 matches. Rodgers 11 points. The difference is that with Rodger's team it actually looks like we're going to get better. At this point under Woy we were only getting worse.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:07 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
ynwa wrote:Art, we're never going to play a 4411. There's nothing wrong with the current system. We're dominating games, we just need to take our chances infront of goal.

I know we're not going to play 4-4-1-1, it's just my opinion that.

And the problem is that we are most of the time restricted to half-chances instead of clear-cut ones. Our attacks in the current 4-3-3 are too easy to defend against. Of course there's hope that that will change, but with each passing game where we don't take as many points as we probably should that hope is fading.

Let me ask it this way: By New Year, where's the league position + pts total limit at which you'd sack Rodgers?

We are now 12th and I wouldn't sack him yet; if we are 12th come January, I would sack him.

After 1 transfer window ?

and who would you replace him with ?!

o yea, let's just keep sacking managers......that will help Very Happy


Rodgers will have to get backing in January.....Anything other than a relegation fight, and he'll get a 2nd chance for me.

hell, Kloppo finished 12th in his first season with Dortmund, and they were exactly in the same situation as us.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Fahim89 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:45 pm

I am baffled even by the idea that BR might be sacked . . . . it just makes me sad!!
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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Helmer on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Guys, I can understand everyone's frustration, I am not sure whether I am allowed to post such links from other blog or not, but here I have one, which I really liked it Smile
http://thekop.liverpoolfc.com/_Risk-Assessment/blog/6448095/173471.html

Schweini is absoluitely right, I have seen the rise of Dortmund under Jürgen Klopp
I would have agreed with Art, about sacking a manager if the system is not working, but it is clearly visible that system is working; just that we don't have results in terms of points.We have created enough number of chances, which should have been scored. Had it been there any obetter player instead of sterling or shelvey, he would have converted those opportunities in yesterday's match. But our wingers or midfielders are not able to do it. So there is nothing to panic, it has to come some time. I will surely wait till next season-Jan, to think about other options.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:16 pm

ynwa wrote:We absolutely destroyed them.

Laughing

I must have missed all the abundance of saves Krul made Laughing oh that's right because he didn't.

You had complete and utter control in the second half because we allowed you to simarly how we allowed Swansea last year.

You might think possession = destruction but unless you make the GK work what's the point?

Krul had like 2 or 3 saves at most in the whole game which is similar to the amount of saves Jones made.

Destruction? hardly.

Although i am a bit annoyed with this common theme we have had this season of taking the lead and trying to sit back and let teams come at us and try and defend that lead.

Now i understand why you think you deserve to win every game 6-0, unfortunately for you more passes =/= domination.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by stevieg8 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:28 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
ynwa wrote:We absolutely destroyed them.

Laughing

I must have missed all the abundance of saves Krul made Laughing oh that's right because he didn't.

You had complete and utter control in the second half because we allowed you to simarly how we allowed Swansea last year.

You might think possession = destruction but unless you make the GK work what's the point?

Krul had like 2 or 3 saves at most in the whole game which is similar to the amount of saves Jones made.

Destruction? hardly.

Although i am a bit annoyed with this common theme we have had this season of taking the lead and trying to sit back and let teams come at us and try and defend that lead.

Now i understand why you think you deserve to win every game 6-0, unfortunately for you more passes =/= domination.

(Liverpool numbers first)
Possession: 65-35
Shots: 23-11
Shots on goal: 6-3
Saves: 2-5
Fouls: 11-14
Corners: 14-3

Were we profligate? Yes. It's our central issue, it has been for over a year, and everyone in this thread has admitted that. It's also the reason we only drew, against, something everyone has admitted. Like you said, possession does not mean a win.

But nobody has said the outcome should have been different, nobody has claimed we were hard done. We brought it upon ourselves, and we accept that. Do tell - do you honestly think those numbers, or (if you don't like stats) a review of the game simply by watching it would imply in any way that Newcastle were the better team? If you do, you should really be embarrassed.
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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:37 pm

I never said that..... i was arguing against the destruction point.....

If Krul doesn't have to make more than 2 or 3 saves in a game and the only saves i remember him having to make was 2 shots from Suarez which quite frankly any GK would have saved then you can hardly say that we was destroyed.

We conceded possession to you yes and allowed you to pass it ect etc but you could hardly say that you created loads of chances that forced Krul into making a save.

Destruction would be forcing Krul into 7-12 saves and limited us to zilch and that really did not happen.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:40 pm

^ you forgot Krul's most important save which was Shelvey's hilarious right footed attempt after Suarez skinned Colo

However, I agree with mole. We did NOT destroy them. Everton destroyed Fulham for example, from what I saw.

We had an amazing first 15 minutes and a great (yet somewhat ailmess) last 20 minutes where we pinned them back and created some good chances.

However, we were dire and predictable in between those times. Especially after we stopped giving the ball to Sterling in last half hour of first half, I don't know why, because Suarez was horribly shit in first half while Sterling was beasting, and then I have no idea what Suarez did at half time, but he came back as Messi Wink

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:46 pm

I think we started superbly. fantastic tempo, and had we got a goal in that period, we probably would have gone on to smash them.

Sterling especially, was amazing in start of the game. Sadly, our tempo suffered after that superb start and Raheem barely saw the ball for rest of the half, while Suarez selfishness and over-complicating things didn't help us. So often Suarez-Sahin 1 and 2s were interrupted last minute, and other than a half-chance Suarez had at Krul, we barely created much after the first 15 mins of first half. Their goal, was of course a punch, especially since they gained possession for it, as a result of a foul throw by Wisdom.

Second half again, we started brightly, and injuries to Ba and Cabaye extremely handicapped them on the counter, and allowed our defenders to push up and Luis' fantastic goal totally got the fans up and singing and we pinned them back for rest of the game. Sterling became involved again, and we definitely should have won it either with Raheem's chance or one of Shelvey's.

Having said that, (And with hindsight of course), maybe after removal of Cabaye and Ba, and knowing Newcastle have very little to fight in midfield and counter-attack (only threat Ben Arfa), we could have used our subs better.

Push Gerrard in Sahin's place, and replace Sahin with Henderson. Play Henderson as the deepest midfielder push Allen a bit more forward, and Gerrard as furthest forward, so the chances that fell to Shelvey would have fallen to Gerrard.

Also puzzling why Downing came on as opposed to Assaidi. having Bellamy would have been amazing in these type of circumstances

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:05 am

@Art Morte wrote:[We are now 12th and I wouldn't sack him yet; if we are 12th come January, I would sack him.

:facepalm:

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote: Laughing

I must have missed all the abundance of saves Krul made Laughing oh that's right because he didn't.

You had complete and utter control in the second half because we allowed you to simarly how we allowed Swansea last year.

You might think possession = destruction but unless you make the GK work what's the point?

Krul had like 2 or 3 saves at most in the whole game which is similar to the amount of saves Jones made.

Destruction? hardly.

Although i am a bit annoyed with this common theme we have had this season of taking the lead and trying to sit back and let teams come at us and try and defend that lead.

Now i understand why you think you deserve to win every game 6-0, unfortunately for you more passes =/= domination.

Apologies, frustration speaking.

Perhaps I was too harsh but you can't deny that we were the better team and were going for the win. Your sideonly went forward twice and luckily scored once with a great goal by Cabaye - it came against the run of play.

We missed two clear cut chances after Suarez' equaliser in Shelvey and Sterling and dominated the midfield. I also disaagree with the "you let us play" in the second half. I don't personally rate Newcastle highly (I consider them mid-table) but I do rate them better than the likes of Stoke City and such that come to Anfield and sit back with 10 men behind the ball...

Also, where have I said we deserve to win every game 6-0? Laughing

On a side note, not too sure which commentator it was (had to stream this game) but I found it funny how he (the commentator) wanted Suarez booked after Coloccini's tackle in the first half. Not saying it was a penalty but there is no way there is a dive. This constant witchhunt is ridiculous. :brickwall:
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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:06 am

Schweini wrote:
Enrique terrible.

Only just saw this.

Are you serious?
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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by donttreadonred on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:13 pm

ynwa wrote:
Schweini wrote:
Enrique terrible.

Only just saw this.

Are you serious?
He played better at the start of the season Last year (2011-2012). however, he only just seems to be acclimating to the possession style. He's been too direct, but he was far better today in attack and defense. That said, you could see him get confused when he got into the final third. He REALLY wanted to lob something into the box. Signs that the style still isn't intrinsic in the players. There is still work to do. I'm beginning to think that Paul Dalglish is right in his assessment on twitter. They look a bit over-coached at the moment. We need to be more comfortable before we can truly get creative and make real, quality chances on a regular basis.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by SchinnerC on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Schweini wrote: I think we started superbly. fantastic tempo, and had we got a goal in that period, we probably would have gone on to smash them.

Sterling especially, was amazing in start of the game. Sadly, our tempo suffered after that superb start and Raheem barely saw the ball for rest of the half, while Suarez selfishness and over-complicating things didn't help us. So often Suarez-Sahin 1 and 2s were interrupted last minute, and other than a half-chance Suarez had at Krul, we barely created much after the first 15 mins of first half. Their goal, was of course a punch, especially since they gained possession for it, as a result of a foul throw by Wisdom.

Second half again, we started brightly, and injuries to Ba and Cabaye extremely handicapped them on the counter, and allowed our defenders to push up and Luis' fantastic goal totally got the fans up and singing and we pinned them back for rest of the game. Sterling became involved again, and we definitely should have won it either with Raheem's chance or one of Shelvey's.

Having said that, (And with hindsight of course), maybe after removal of Cabaye and Ba, and knowing Newcastle have very little to fight in midfield and counter-attack (only threat Ben Arfa), we could have used our subs better.

Push Gerrard in Sahin's place, and replace Sahin with Henderson. Play Henderson as the deepest midfielder push Allen a bit more forward, and Gerrard as furthest forward, so the chances that fell to Shelvey would have fallen to Gerrard.

Also puzzling why Downing came on as opposed to Assaidi. having Bellamy would have been amazing in these type of circumstances

Hendo instead of Sahin? no! If anyone should replace Sahin, it's Shelvey and I think BR knows that. But imo, Sahin should play deeper instead of the role he's given now as he's a player who needs time on the ball. Dont know why Gerrard isn't played as the most attacking of the CMs.

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Re: Liverpool vs Newcastle | 5th November | 1600 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:10 am

Hendo for Sahin could of worked if Gerrard moved uptop.

Gerrard will be sitting next to Allen until Lucas recovers. Rodgers has already said it and you can see the reasoning for it.

Sahin is still trying to adapt not only to our team but the footballing culture of the country. It's a much more faster tempo than he's previously played. He also didn't see much of the ball on the pitch last season for Real, so he's still trying to get more games in to get more fit. So I don't think he can be trusted playing a little deeper for the time being.

Hendo doesn't really seem to favour Rodgers and Shelvey is predominately more in the mould of a Lampard.


@donttreadonred wrote:He played better at the start of the season Last year (2011-2012). however, he only just seems to be acclimating to the possession style. He's been too direct, but he was far better today in attack and defense. That said, you could see him get confused when he got into the final third. He REALLY wanted to lob something into the box. Signs that the style still isn't intrinsic in the players. There is still work to do. I'm beginning to think that Paul Dalglish is right in his assessment on twitter. They look a bit over-coached at the moment. We need to be more comfortable before we can truly get creative and make real, quality chances on a regular basis.

Yes he did but so did the rest of the team.

His bad run of form consisted of him being overplayed and the rest of the team playing poorly. It wasn't just him. I'm certain when he was on form people were going around and saying they wouldn't have minded spending 20m on the fellow.

Enrique has never been too great going forward - and that's where Johnson fits in. Enrique will sit back with Agger and Skrtel while Johnson bombs forward and the structure is still in place.

Enrique can play a through ball from deep as shown against Newcastle , he also played a very nice ball to Hendo against Stoke last season. He has the ability to do that. He's only just recovered from injury. Give him some time - he's the least of our worries.
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