Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

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Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Nishankly on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:10 pm

vs

Venue - Anfield.



The Reds will look to extend their six-match unbeaten run in the Barclays Premier League and record a second home win of the campaign in the top-flight.

Team news -

Liverpool-

Gerrard played 70 mins midweek and could start this game.
Agger is out for two weeks.
Skrtel and Reina will face late fitness tests.
Shelvey has a thigh injury. No idea about him.
Lucas is still a few weeks away.
Borini and Kelly are the long term absentees.

Wigan -

Alcaraz and Macurthur are out.
Miyaichi will face a late fitness test.


How the squads will line up -

Liverpool -

Reina
Gleninho,Skrtel Coates Enrique
Allen
Sahin Gerrard
Sterling ................... Suso
Suarez

Wigan -


Al Habsi
Caldwell Boyce Ramis Figueroa
McCarthy Watson
Maloney ................... Beausejour
Kone Di Santo

Liverpool haven't beaten Wigan in the last five meetings, The last win coming back in Wed 16 December. Liverpool have only registered 3 wins in the last 6 years over Wigan.

Hopefully we win.
YNWA
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:53 pm

I can see us playing a 352 again to be honest.

Wigan are our bogey side, I will be delighted with the win but we'll end up with a draw or a loss...

Hate Martinez and his 10 men behind the ball tactics. Delighted we didn't hire him. And I hope we smash them 3-0. Smile

Reina and Skrtel coming back is massive for us. Especially with Agger out.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:37 pm

Agger said in an interview that he was hopeful to be back by Wigan game. I'm not sure if he should rush himself.

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:23 am

It really does depend on the injury. If it's nothing major, I honestly don't see why he can't play. We need our best players playing to climb higher up the ladder.


Last edited by ynwa on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : thanks art)
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:32 am

*major


Three points. Gotta be.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:45 am

Reina set to return. Smile
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by TheRedStag on Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:44 pm

Really looking forward to todays game.

3 points are a must.

Home form is desperate, lets change that today red men! banana

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Don't call me James on Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Not too many chances created in the first. It's been the same story as always so far: have majority of possession but to no avail. Enrique is looking good. The international break seems to have an effect on players but it shouldn't be an excuse.

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:15 pm

A good win after a frustrating first half. Wigan seemed to lose all faith after we scored the first goal.

Enrique with another beast performance.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Don't call me James on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:40 pm

Great second half. Enrique was immense. Suarez :bow: . Will be a disgrace if he doesnt win PL player of the month award.

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:07 pm

I don't care who wins Player of the Month awards, but at this rate Suarez is putting himself in contention for being the league's top scorer.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by RedOranje on Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:21 pm

So does anyone want to offer some praise to Rodgers for his tactical moves and substitutions? Both changed the game and played a role in our 7 match unbeaten run (in the league).

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:39 pm

@RedOranje wrote:So does anyone want to offer some praise to Rodgers for his tactical moves and substitutions? Both changed the game and played a role in our 7 match unbeaten run (in the league).

Yeah, sure, we scored 3 good goals and killed the game off quite decisively.
But I'm not getting carried away yet, we beat Wigan at home which should be more a norm than a feat to be praised. Let's see how our next games go, perhaps this is a start for better things.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by RedOranje on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Gotta love double standards.

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by stevieg8 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:48 pm

@RedOranje wrote:So does anyone want to offer some praise to Rodgers for his tactical moves and substitutions? Both changed the game and played a role in our 7 match unbeaten run (in the league).

Yeah, but if we had Carroll as a plan B it would've been 4-0 or 5-0. :coffee:
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by RedOranje on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:08 pm

@stevieg8 wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:So does anyone want to offer some praise to Rodgers for his tactical moves and substitutions? Both changed the game and played a role in our 7 match unbeaten run (in the league).

Yeah, but if we had Carroll as a plan B it would've been 4-0 or 5-0. :coffee:

You mean plan C or D? The side already displayed a (supposedly nonexistent) plan B in the last few matches, as well as the ability to adapt mid-match and change to a plan B.5.

Given how quickly and how vocally criticism for a lack of such adaptation came about, I thought maybe after two back-to-back displays of it there might be some recognition of it.

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:13 pm

@RedOranje wrote:Gotta love double standards.

You referring to our last season fixtures against Wigan or what?

We are 11th in the table and got just our 3rd win of the season, sorry if I'm not full of praise for the manager here.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by mr-r34 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:58 pm

Time will show the brilliance of Rodgers, i've got this feeling in my stomach about him, maybe one day though for now i can only dream.

Chelsea game and yesterdays game, showing us he had the balls to change up his system early on, avoid these 60th min routine sub bullshit.


:bow: :bow: :bow:

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Arquitescu on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:43 am

Before I make this briefing I would rather not discuss the shambles of a performance that was in the shapeless and near-"formation-less" 1st half. Although it represented the chisel and stone that is Rodger's mind brimming full of his ideas, I don't think there is much to discuss about the 1st half which was akin to.....watching Cricket.

2nd Half. Solo TU Brendan! cheers

I won't lie, when he took off Suso I was scratching my head given the Spaniard's influence in the game, along with the many other players I would have taken off. As we saw Rodger's reverted to a 4-2-3-1 which compressed into a 4-1-4-1 in attack (as Red aptly stated). It saw the under appreciated J-Hendo come on to form a dual pivot with Joe Allen as despite the frailty of this partnership, it allowed two players with similar characteristics yet different preference to express their trade. Allen played his usual possession recycling role to keep the midfield anchored while Henderson was given his usual Europa League role freedom to not only switch the bank on possession and keep it tidy but a near box to box role reminiscent to when Franky Lampard had something in the tank. Rodger's finally paid our questions to an end after we wondered why such a player suited to this system is being benched. He slotted in seamlessly and even broke the ice on his (lacking) confidence with some excellent crosses to spread the play and even moved forward a couple of times (while Allen and Gerrard noticeably [and intelligently] dropped deeper to cover the tracks. The formation also involved Enrique and Johnson redevelop their abstract interchangeable positioning between the left of the '4' and the left of the '3'. Last time it was done vs Chelsea and had mixed results yet given the essential freedom where both could link and cover for each other in the 4-2-3-1, it gave them a superb understanding of their positioning while Enrique not only gave a stellar defensive performance but looked like Maldini in attack with some intelligent link-up with his fellow AMs. Only problem with Enrique he needs to develop timing in when to pass to Suarez rather then just pulling a "Song with RvP" and hoofing onto him. His new False 9 role is a brilliant move by Rodger's since it not only eliminates ALL "reference points" to our system but provides a system built around him to maximize his capabilities.

Gerrard had a more subdued role yet it was needed given his versatility and ability to track back with the midfield linking with the defence. Wisdom was barely tested yet did his job. I know he likes working out and all but he needs to learn you need to defend with your feat and not with your shoulders and barging into people. Skrtel and Agger? My friend Messiah can explain that one. Suarez? I actually hope someone else aside from him scores in not to give the impression we are reliant on him (while the system actually dictates that we are not). Suarez is obviously the MOTM but our of sympathy for a man back in form in re-developed, I'd give it to my man Enrique.

Its also clear just HOW MUCH we need a true anchoring midfield with defensive prowess (Lucas obviously) as only then this system can come into fruition. TRUST.ME.on.this.

I also want to discuss that since we aren't exactly having good possession in any game, do you see Rodger's going for the more direct and pass and move route (judging by the tactics) or will he continue to stick to his philosophy? I believe in his philosophy as frustrating as its development can be, but what would you prefer? Also, do you think the 4-2-3-1 is the way to go given how much it made sense on a tactical point of view?


@Art Morte wrote:
@RedOranje wrote:Gotta love double standards.

You referring to our last season fixtures against Wigan or what?

We are 11th in the table and got just our 3rd win of the season, sorry if I'm not full of praise for the manager here.

That's quite harsh Art as considering the minute points difference between the teams at this early stage. I mean we are 5 points behind 5th not to count Suarez's disallowed Everton Goal. That would have us jumped to 18 points.

Would you still take Paul Lambert over BR?


Last edited by Arquitecto on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:44 am

@Art Morte wrote:
You referring to our last season fixtures against Wigan or what?

We are 11th in the table and got just our 3rd win of the season, sorry if I'm not full of praise for the manager here.

You havn't gave much praise since he's arrived, though.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Red Alert on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:02 am

Sterling and Suarez are creating a great relationship on and off the pitch. It's good that Luis is taking Sterling under his wing. This will only bode well for Sterling in the future and progressing as a better player.

_____

@Arq: Great analysis.

I'm in the belief that Rodgers is still trying to sell his philosophy to us but is trying something new until he has the resources to do that.

He has altered his formation in the last couple of weeks but I'm certain that's because he doesn't have all the right players yet. Bar Suarez, we're very weak in the final third. I'm sure when he gets the players he needs he'll start playing the formation he wants. The inside forwards are key to the way Rodgers desires to play.

At the moment, it seem's as if he's trying to let certain players adapt [ala Wisdom, Suso and Sterling] aswell as trying not to drop too many points to be in a stable position so we can push on after January. Rodgers shown great tactical awareness in the last month or so, which is really good for us. I had my doubts when Rodgers first arrived but he's growing onto me.

I can't wait for the return of Lucas. He will give Gerrard the responsibility going forward which will help Suarez quite a bit when we go forward.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Art Morte on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:01 pm

Look, guys, I've got no problem giving Rodgers credit when I feel he deserves it. We sit 11th in the table and beat Wigan at Anfield. That doesn't quite cut it for me yet. A good win and hopefully a sign of things to come. If we next weekend come away from Wales with three points, I'll be a bit less reserved about complementing Brendan Rodgers.
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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Helmer on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:52 pm

For me first half was as important was second half. Although we did not score any goal in the fist half, it surely showed as what BR was trying in the first half. He realized in the 37th minute that a change was needed. I don't think many managers would do such a tactical change before even the half time was over. That means it provided us a different option and bigger picture of what BR can bring to our team in the future. It also shows the ability of the manager that Hendo is being developed under his supervision into a much more mature midfielder and provide as what is needed at respective times.
BR also gave little different role to Enrique which came out fantastic as we all saw. The thing which I like about BR is, he gets to know every player in his team so closely that helps him to utilise those exact small-small skills in a decisive and fruitful way. He is surely doing better, getting a sensible balance between available resources and his philosophy.
But still I agree with Morte on one thing that we will get know more about BR when we play against Swansea because it will be style vs style and ball vs ball. hmm

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by Don't call me James on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:17 pm

Great analysis from all of you guys. I would just like to add what I've noticed about Rodgers.

It's not that he gets his formation wrong at the start of the game and then alters it midway through the first when he sees that it's not working. With Rodgers, I get the sense that he does this on purpose. He starts with his starting team and favored formation and asks his team to play our normal possession retaining style of football. In that first 30 minutes he studies the oppositions movements, threats, and their defensive gaps. Once he knows exactly what the other manager has planned for this game, he then counters it by changing his formation or making a substitution to give our team the upper hand tactically to exploit the oppositions weaknesses.

I think we shouldn't be surprised from now on when we see these early tactical changes and substitutions because our team starts playing after the 30th minute of each game when we've learned how the opposition is playing us.

This is something we do not see many mangers do, to me Rodgers seems like a very intelligent tactician. Rodgers is a deceiving tactician at that. When you watch him give interviews, he gives you the impression that the possession style of football is all he's got, when he reality he fools opposition managers into thinking that possession style is our mantra. Just look at the Wigan game. Once we made the tactical change in the first half, our possession on the ball decreased to the point where Wigan actually had more possession than us. Our second half display was more direct and with high tempo.

And I'm sure we'll only get better when Rodgers has the players he wants under his disposal.

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Re: Liverpool vs Wigan | 17th November | 1500 GMT | Premier League |

Post by donttreadonred on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 am

I’m sure it’s been mentioned, but I’d like to belatedly point out a few surprising aspects of the Wigan match.

1.)Henderson – Where has this player been all season? This Jordan Henderson looked ready to stake his claim for the third midfield spot. He and Gerrard formed a magnificent midfield pairing in front of Allen. The understanding between him and Gerrard regarding when to make the run and when to hang back to cover was noticeable from the moment he stepped on the pitch. To be honest, the two in front of a single anchor point was what I expected to see more of this season. I’ve not necessarily been Hendo’s biggest fan since his move to LFC, but he looked like the B2B midfielder that we’ve been missing at times this season. His energy and positional discipline made the early change effective. It’s performances like this one that make you think a future midfield of Allen-Lucas-Hendo could be a very effective.

2.) Enrique – He’s come a long way from people questioning his place in the team and even wondering if he would be at the club after January. I never would have expected to see him in a midfield role, much less the advanced, attacking role he occupied against WIgan. I’ve been impressed to no end with his recent performances in his newfound attacking role. I would love to see more of a goal threat from that position, but Enrique has truly surprised me with his ability and attacking play.

3.) Nuri Sahin – I know what you’re thinking, “But, he didn’t even play…” Well, that’s precisely my point. He didn’t play against Wigan, and he hasn’t really been a pivotal player so far in the season. Allen and Sterling have arguably been more impressive (and certainly more often utilized), and it could be argued that Suso, Shelvey and Wisdom have featured more prominently in Rodgers’s plans. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to bash Sahin. I’m merely pointing out the interesting observation that a player who was so coveted over the summer has yet to really stamp his mark on the Liverpool starting 11. I do think he will contribute this season, and may yet prove to be crucial. However, ask yourself. If you had to make a decision today, would you buy Sahin for ~£12.5-15 million over investing in other areas?... I’m not sure the answer is that clear-cut at this particular moment.

(P.S. I would venture a guess that Sahin was rested with one eye on Thursday’s Europa League match. However, the observation was more intended as a general comment on his contribution so far.)

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