Valladolid vs Real Madrid discussion

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Post by Onyx on Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:41 am

Valladolid vs Real Madrid discussion 7078Valladolid vs Real Madrid discussion 418

Valladolid vs Real Madrid discussion.

Saturday 8th December.

Past 2 meetings:


Away - 14th March 2010: Valladolid 1-4 Real Madrid

Home - 17th October 2009: Real Madrid 4-2 Valladolid

Injuries/Suspensions:

Real Madrid - Higuain, Marcelo, Essien and Albiol.
Valladolid - No injuries/suspensions.


Valladolid last 3 league results:

Sevilla 1-2 Valladolid
Valladolid 1-0 Granada
Getafe 2-1 Valladolid

Valladolid current league position: 7th.

1. Barcelona - 40 points
2. Atletico Madrid - 34 points
3. Real Madrid - 29 points
4. Real Betis - 24 points
-------------------------
7. Valladolid - 21 points
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Post by Die Borussen on Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:00 pm

they just won sevilla away hmm

dont know what to think of the game, hope the players finish it of early and not win slightly by a 1 goal lead or something

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Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:34 pm

We have been rather average away from home this season would for us to win and keep another clean sheet

Cacktrao got injured against Ajax, which leaves us with effectively no recognised LBs + Essien. Nacho might get a start then unless Mou decides to play Carvalho or Albitrolol out there.

Anyone else thinks Jose Rodriguez will get picked again, if he is then its safe to say Mou sees a future with him in the first team. He looks like a fine player in the first team a pity there is too much competition for him in Castilla.

Predict this line-up plus likely subs:

Iker
Mehbeloa-Epep-Ramos-Nacho
Khedira-Alonso
DiMaria-Ozil-Ronaldo
Benzema

Subs: Callegoat on for DiMaria, Jose(if he is called) on for Ozil/Benzema, Morata(if called for Benzema)

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:49 pm

REAL MADRID SQUAD:
Goalkeepers: Casillas, Adán and Jesús.
Defenders: Varane, Pepe, Ramos, Carvalho, Nacho and Arbeloa.
Midfielders: Essien, Khedira, Kaká, Özil, Alonso, Modric, Callejón and Di María.
Forwards: Cristiano Ronaldo, Benzema and Morata.

------------------------

Essien is back so no more Jose Rodriguez "sigh" hope he enjoyed it while it lasted. No LBs lol Essien over Nacho for Mou anyone??

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Post by the xcx on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:16 pm

Im starting to hate Ramos...
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Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:36 am

Ramos has been making dumb errors but he is not the only one to blame. If we get a decent rb or if arbeloa decides to start actually playing, we will do much, much better.
Why though?

1. Di maria as a result of arbeloas incompetence has had to track back, making him tired and less ready to attack when receiving the ball. (thanks sam for telling me this)

2. Di maria is much, much more important to our game then people think. When he plays bad we suffer, because although you can criticize him for his 50% pass percentage (which is bs, his job is not the same as xavi's job for ex), he IS the man who makes the final pass. He finds gaps that no one can see, not even ozil or xabi alonso. Alonso and damn khedira had to try to do di marias thing(and as we saw it did not work lol), but we almost lost had it not been for benzema and ozil brilliance in front of goal.

Also, I am liking nacho alot. Decently solid and is a great team player. I am sure he will be able to link up with ronaldo soon.

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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:28 am

Who was it winning all the headers after the two goals. Someone at the near post was doing a really good job.

I don't think it was Ronaldo...maybe Callejon.

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Post by Nedved on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:21 pm

@Le Samourai wrote:Who was it winning all the headers after the two goals. Someone at the near post was doing a really good job.

I don't think it was Ronaldo...maybe Callejon.

I like Ramos. He is a very good player to have on the right( otherwise Del Bosque would n't be putting him on the right). But he is making mistakes on set pieces and there is no two ways about it. Set pieces are costing RM dearly. What do you think is the solution?

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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:35 pm

On the 2 goals we had no guy on the near post. On the rest of corners we did.

Everything about our defending of set pieces is dysfunctional, no one knows their role we don't put fundamental structures in place.

It could literally be so simple as put a person on the near post and put 2 people on each post and that's it. That would sacrifice the counter attack but you tell me what's more important.

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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:16 pm

Ramos is playing CB for Spain too, and he was the best CB at the Euro alongside Pepe.

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Post by Nedved on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Defense & Attack only happen with co-ordination and understanding, which I guess all 3 parties - Ramos, Pepe & Mou are running short of.

I saw Mou's teams over the years he always had solid defense and likes players who completely & unquestionably believe in him & tactics and back each other on/off the pitch. Looking at news reports this has not been happening so parties have no understanding. With huge egos it is difficult, unless they see a common motive to bury the hatchet. Otherwise I see nothing happening, except for someone leaving.

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Post by buddytaller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:32 pm

Real Madrid could have lost the game due to poor defending from two corner kicks, Ramos should have done a lot better against Manucho for the second goal, and someone should have been marking Manucho for his first.

Ramos needs to cut the excesses and stick to the basics or risk losing his place to Varane, who has always looked impressive.

My man of the match was Mourinho, his changes brought dividends, Callejon at left back and Alonso as a centre-back, only the special one is crazy enough to try that.

Special mentions for MOTM, Ozil, Callejon and Benzema.

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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:44 pm

Sometimes I genuinely wonder.

He threw on 2 attackers and took off 2 defenders and managed to achieve the worst balanced lineup possible. We created very little out of the lineup it produced.

Callejon at LB? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT WITH RONALDO PLAYING ON THE WING. THEY BOTH DO THE SAME THING.

Alonso moved back into the space Ramos vacated because he had to cover the right....that was pretty much natural.

And then Ozil and Benzema work some magic and Morinhio is MOTM.

Seems completely legit.

Whoever was at the near post defending corners is my MOTM...because they did so of their own accord and understood better than a coach who's supposed to be some excellent defensive mind that you need to position a man on the near post to defend corners.

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Post by the xcx on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:47 pm

Football is weird. Even the strangest decisions can bring success imo. I think Mou was tactically great, but the team let Mou down again in the setpieces.
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Post by buddytaller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:57 pm

Your hate for the Special one is clouding your judgement, Mourinho took a big risk in taking out Nacho who offered very little offensive threats and putting in Di Maria on the left of attack.

He again took out Arbeloa and brought on Modric, a move which allowed the defense which now included Alonso to link up better with the attack.

He finally took off Benzema and brought on Varane, restoring balance to the defence.

The timing of his changes were just perfect, for me that is tactical ingenuity.

Putting men on the line is a rare strategy at defending set pieces these days for many reasons. It's only useful when zonal marking is employed to defend set pieces, in man marking players are assigned to opposition attackers. Attacking teams may commit as many as 8 or more players. With two outfield players on the line there'd be no extra player to recycle the ball and initiate the counter attack,which is vital to Real Madrid's play.

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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:58 pm

@The xcx wrote:Football is weird. Even the strangest decisions can bring success imo. I think Mou was tactically great, but the team let Mou down again in the setpieces.

Show me where moving Callejon to LB brought success. It did not result in a single decent attacking move.

Team let him down on set pieces. If he practiced set pieces with people in the proper position people would be in the proper position. There's a point where you have to focus your attention on the party responsible for practicing set piece defense because it has been the primary defensive problem we have had under his tenure.

Ramos today.
Pepe Yesterday
Alonso tommorow
Casillas et al.

Are we really going to sit here and blame individual players when every single time the forwards come into the box and defend (off their own accord) we deal with them perfectly.

I don't hate him. I like him. I love what he did at Chelsea and at Inter......I simply don't like what he's doing to us.
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Post by the xcx on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:29 pm

RM dosent have the players Mou is used to. That said, hes always been out of his comfort zone. I mean we dont have players that can hold a clean sheet for life.

Callejon did fine as a LB, I never thought that Mou would order him to get the ball forward. His priority was to defend. Bold choice by Mou :bow:.

About setpieces then the reason we concede is the fact that most of players in 16 yard box like to hassle the opposition rather than zone mark. Leaving them out of the position to defend when the cross has made. We are far better off with Casillas defending corners tho, rather than let our players do it.
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Post by Nedved on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:40 pm

@Le Samourai wrote: I don't hate him. I like him. I love what he did at Chelsea and at Inter......I simply don't like what he's doing to us.
And what is that he is doing to us you don't like?
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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:52 pm

@Nedved wrote:
@Le Samourai wrote: I don't hate him. I like him. I love what he did at Chelsea and at Inter......I simply don't like what he's doing to us.
And what is that he is doing to us you don't like?

Reluctance to diversify our attacking style and allow more creative attacking talents opportunities on the ball.

Reluctance to admit to a set piece problem and dysfunctional set piece tactics.

Preference to be overly cautious in big games only to have it backfire and then have us throw on all the attackers. (though this works because our players are amazing).

There's a whole range of issues with him. We will continue winning because our players are better and we might even get through in the CL because of the former and the fact that his tactics while not encouraging aren't a complete failure.

But this level of tactical rigidity and the narrow-mindedness with which the team plays because of it is frustrating.

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Post by Cyborg on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:54 pm

@Le Samourai wrote:Sometimes I genuinely wonder.

He threw on 2 attackers and took off 2 defenders and managed to achieve the worst balanced lineup possible. We created very little out of the lineup it produced.

Callejon at LB? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT WITH RONALDO PLAYING ON THE WING. THEY BOTH DO THE SAME THING.

Alonso moved back into the space Ramos vacated because he had to cover the right....that was pretty much natural.

And then Ozil and Benzema work some magic and Morinhio is MOTM.

Seems completely legit.

Whoever was at the near post defending corners is my MOTM...because they did so of their own accord and understood better than a coach who's supposed to be some excellent defensive mind that you need to position a man on the near post to defend corners.

i thought he would have played di maria in the left wing back slot and callejon on the right wing back slot.

At times we play so narrow teams can defend again us easily. both players on the wing want to come inside.

di maria should play on the left more often, every time i see him there he is great at running at defenders.

Mourinho always throws on strikers when he is behind, in all his past teams. so its no suprise. Most times he gets a result.

Every coach will get criticized, they will mess up but Mourinho is the best coach for Madrid right now, there is no one else who can handle the pressure and produce results. It may seem easy but ask all the previous coaches that were in charge since del bosque if its easy coaching madrid. I want him to coach till his contract ends at least.

but this team should have be on the pitch in the second half
Casillas
Ramos--Pepe
--- Alonso---
Callejon--------Di maria
Ozil---Modric---Ronaldo
------Benzema-----

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Post by Onyx on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:08 pm

I think winning the CL will be enough for us in terms of instant success. Perez wanted instant success and if we win the CL this season, then I think this will be Mourinho's final season.

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Post by Nedved on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:24 pm

@Le Samourai - I am sure you are from Spain .

Spanish RM fans look at Real Madrid playing style through their historical hay days. They expect RM to play with attacking flair, arrogance and dominance to annihilate the opposition, just like they once used to. Unfortunately that is history and some Spanish RM fans still seem to be stuck there and they dislike pragmatic but effective playing style and envy Barcelona home grown talent.

May be it is time real fans get Real. RM has always bought talent, why the sudden urge for home grown talent, that is just bcos you envy Barcelona. Again everybody does envy Barca for that, but their envy does not go the extent of hating the manager who got them parity with their arch rivls, which was alluding them for a decade.

Don't get me wrong. I am just highlighting the cultural and historical paradigms of different fans.
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Post by Le Samourai on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:41 pm

I am from Spain, though I don't live there currently.

Some Spanish RM fans do think along those lines, but I don't. I think what you do is assemble a team and create a system which integrates the most talented players or ideally all the players you have.

When you look at where our creativity is...how many touches players willing to distribute and make the right decisions get then you see there's a problem. There's a way we can and should play (based on the players we have) and very rarely have I seen that come to fruition.

I could care less about homegrown talents or Barca. I don't like the way they play nor do I respect their policy or furthermore the sense of entitlement and moral high ground they and their fans feel such a playing style or youth policy bring.

*I do talk about Carvajal because he actually is better than anything we have and has actually been the best right back in Bundelsiga this season..so I do feel he could have been given a chance,

All I think is we're misusing the talent wrongfully weighting the degree of trust we have in various players. Our style can be tweaked to get the players who need the ball more touches and the players who excel without it more opportunities.

As I said. I like Mourinhio. At Chelsea and Inter he integrated the players he had very well. I don't think that's been the case with us.

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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:11 pm

Carjaval Sad

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Post by buddytaller on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:11 pm

Carvajal was sold with a buy back, it was excellent business in my opinion as he got plenty of playing time and would improve enough to start in the first team next season, with Arbeloa in decline.

Mourinho continues building a fantastic squad, it's obvious some players are not playing at their very best but I expect forms to improve as we head into a new year, this season could be one of the most successful in Real Madrid's history if the players don't lose focus and play to Mourinho's instructions.

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