Ronaldo vs Van basten

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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:49 pm

Is the modern equivalent Kane vs Mbappe?

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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by BarcaLearning on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:46 am

Dont think Kane belongs in this bracket of strikers, Mbappe definitely does though Razz
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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by breva on Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:59 pm

I am old enough to have watched Marco and Ronaldo live at stadiums and on TV. Before his injury, no one could stop Ronaldo without physically grabbing him and knocking him down. He was much faster than any midfielder or defender. Marco was not like that, he was more technical and would score goals with deftness but was quicker than any other forward of the time. If I was to give a nod it would be to Ronaldo before his injury and to Marco after his.
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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by sportsczy on Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:29 pm

@BarcaLearning wrote:I used to say R9 too, but really how many of us are old enough to have watched Van Basten during his days and judged? For those interested, really look up one of those long highlight clips of his, just amazing.

I grew up watching Van Basten.  Best striker of that generation.  You had Zico, Platini, Maradona and Van Basten as my superstars growing up.  I'd like to throw Socrates in there because he should be counted among the truly greats imo.  Rummenigge was a really great player too... but he's such an asshole that I can't give him props.  My final soft spots were for Hugo Sanchez, Laudrup, Enzo Francescoli and Careca.

It's really close between R9 and Van Basten.  Van Basten was that good.

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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by BarcaLearning on Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:56 am

Cool, thanks guys, overall R9 pre-injury just shades it probably Razz

Just following on with about the superstars u mentioned, and u probably said this somewhere but I cant remember bad memory. What do u think about the stars and best players in those days compared with the more modern era one U know the arguments, and if Messi/Ronaldo is the best ever, how the game has changed so much its hard to judge, etc... U guys watched over different eras so your opinions come with first hand experience Very Happy
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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by sportsczy on Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:03 am

A few things:

- Pre-Bosman ruling, there were no super teams unless there was a NT super generation and a club within that country was able to get a lot of them. As a result, players like Van Basten didn't have the perfect team built around them. Rules didn't allow it. So they had to adapt themselves to the talent around them. You also had a lot of good team that could all compete with each other and many leagues had top teams (Eastern European top clubs were damn good).
- The offside rule was drastically different. If a player was offside, it was called offside. There was no "being active" qualifier.
- You were allowed to play very physically. Yellow card were not common and red cards were extremely rare.

I just think it was much harder back then for top players and you didn't have just a handful of superteams.

For example, Werder Bremen, Hamburg, Kaiserslautern and Stuttgart were just as good as Bayern.

St Etienne, Monaco, Nantes, Bordeaux, Marseille and Toulouse were good and all competitive.

In Serie A, Juve, Napoli (when Maradona was there only), Inter, Roma and Milan were on the same level.

La Liga was mostly about Real Madrid. But teams like Barcelona, Real Sociedad, Bilbao and Atletico did compete to some degree. La Liga wasn't very good back in the 80s if I'm honest.

Liverpool and Everton dominated the titles in England. But Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa was damn good too.

In the 80s, you have Bucarest, Porto, Hamburg, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Juve and Milan as champions. It was a lot more diverse.

Where am I going? Messi and Cr have had it easy. As talented as they are, competition is limited because they play with super teams. Pre-Bosman, superstars couldn't win anything unless they put themselves at the service of their club and did whatever it took to win.

So I don't think CR and Messi are any better than the superstars of the 80s. Zico, Platini, Maradona and Van Basten were every bit as good if not better. They couldn't score or win as much because they had to adapt to their environment as opposed to having a perfect environment created for them. Platini and Van Basten literally only had 3-5 years where they were still somewhere in their prime and their club could be considered elite.



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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by Casciavit on Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:55 am

Lol so are we just going to ignore that players now have:

-Less time on the ball.

-Less space to work with.

-Superior conditioning and athleticism. Players running 12km instead of 7KM. You can't really get away with being an alcoholic by day and footballer by night no more. Laughing

-Superior tactical systems and tactical analysis.

-Players are more consistent now since every game has a magnifying glass on them.

I can go on really. I'm just wondering do none of these count to you? I've always considered comparing players from different eras pointless because the game's changed too much over the years. I mean I agree with your points regarding the conditions of the 80s, but I still think you're underselling today's talent either way.

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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by BarcaLearning on Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:59 pm

Wow... thats good inputs again guys, thank you Very Happy

Yep, totally understand there are just so many factors, near impossible to compare.... so much for all the best ever claims today about Messi, or CR... Admittedly Messi has been at Barca all his life and for like a decade the team resolves around him, so thats a big argument against him....

Anyway, gonna remember from now on, no more saying best ever and all that, just gonna try and say best of the current era, or the last decade or so, etc. instead, and specially need to take into account some major changes in the game thats affected how the best players can perform...
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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by sportsczy on Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:05 pm

Due to the offsides rule, you couldn't make blind runs. You had to stay within the context of of the lines. You literally had to wait for a player to come back onsides before going... So yeah, you can run more today by a ton.

Second thing is, again, due to the offsides rule, the entire pitch wasn't available. Since the available real estate was less, there were less tactical opportunities. Wingers were true wingers because you needed guys that had the legs to run just as hard coming back onsides than making runs forward.

As effective as total football is today with how Pep plays it, it was 100x more effective back in the day. They basically squeezed the pitch on you and you couldn't even move.

So I think there's a lot more space to play with today. Players were definitely less athletic in the day though. Skills was more of a premium over athleticism.


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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:36 pm

Knowing that and one realizes that football has changed so much during different eras, big adjustments, and thats just one of the many factors ever changing. Its probably no wonder why some coaches only succeed in certain times or places, and some eventually get outdated if they dont keep evolving.
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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by _SuperFloren_ on Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:35 am

Brazilian Ronaldo before injury was the best player of all times, bro. Man against kids, trust me. Looks at this, all the main stars of the game at the time, look like normal guys compared to him, unstoppable

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Re: Ronaldo vs Van basten

Post by titosantill on Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:48 pm

R9
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