Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

+4
BarrileteCosmico
free_cat
McAgger
RealGunner
8 posters

Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by RealGunner Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:20 pm

http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/16E4B/production/_87817739_de27-2.jpg

"It will have a top speed of over 1,000km/h [620mph]," Mr BamBrogan shouts over the engine.
"We will use the pillars to even out the bumps in the terrain so people don't feel weird."
The buggy bounces over a rock and whisks past the 20 massive tubes already on site, and I find what concerns me is not the technical challenge.
I can absolutely believe the skills Hyperloop Technologies has brought in from the likes of SpaceX could crack the science, overcome the air resistance, and withstand the acceleration - it will be gentle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35361093
RealGunner
RealGunner
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 89513
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by McAgger Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:06 pm

If it makes transportation over great distances cheaper then I hope so.
McAgger
McAgger
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Reggina
Posts : 28318
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 107

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by free_cat Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:42 am

No, it's not the future. Why build a massively costly infraestructure to go at 1.000km/h when you can just use the sky at 800 km/h (more if you are willing to pay more).
free_cat
free_cat
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:06 am

Because between getting to the airport, going through security, etc you end up losing a ton of time. Hyperloop's appeal is that it could leave you right in the city center, like with train stations.
BarrileteCosmico
BarrileteCosmico
Admin
Admin

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 28277
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by free_cat Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:32 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Because between getting to the airport, going through security, etc you end up losing a ton of time. Hyperloop's appeal is that it could leave you right in the city center, like with train stations.


Well, then build fast trains or planes that fly faster. It's quite clear we won't see this thing live and if we do it will go bankrupt. Another problem with hyperloop is that it can transport too few people.

It's probably much more cheaper to get concordes back to business instead of this project. Concordes flew at 2.100 km/h, so twice this thing and the costs are just the plane and fuel.
free_cat
free_cat
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by Bellabong Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:25 am

This is the first generation that has not seen a new form of transport.

I can't... There's so many things wrong with this statement....

Also don't underestimate the cost of Concorde.


We'll more likely see fusion powered maglevs than hyperloop.
Bellabong
Bellabong
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : TSV 1860 Munich
Posts : 3474
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by Bellabong Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:46 am

A CNN report said the the biggest problem is making the travel comfortable.


hahahaha; It's as if Hyperloop is ignoring the actual engineering costs and challenge of building what is essentially a scaled up pipeline with a vacuum chamber that's 50 times more voluminous than our current largest chamber.  (I'm basing everything on a SanFran LA route). A steel tube that long would expand 300m on both ends with the temperature differences in California.

Get the basics right Hyperloop; figure out how to build a 600km long vacuum tube with all the required features (including emergency exits - in a vacuum tube Laughing) before actually spending time and money designing an entire system.

I like how their paper outlines what to do in catastrophic failures as if the solutions are already in place, like talking about emergency exits when they haven't even thought about them yet.

There's a reason why we place natural gas pipelines underground mostly; Hyperloop's papers assumes those challenges are easy enough to solve.

In the case of a large rupture... you're gonna have 15 ton capsules be hit by 100 tons of air. Yeah you don't want imagine what would happen to you sitting inside that capsule.

There are no margins for error; and that's why this system will fail as a passenger transport system.


And can someone tell me why a 600km vacuum tube would be cheaper to build; maintain and protect than a 600km high speed rail-line? Hyperloop hasn't and that's their main draw Laughing

And if you want energy efficiency; just put panels above all the rail-lines/roads; much much cheaper.
Bellabong
Bellabong
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : TSV 1860 Munich
Posts : 3474
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by zizzle Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:42 am

Because progress. Do you know how many people used shit on most of the stuff that you take for granted today? People thought cars would never replace horses, and the idea of an airplane was a joke to many. So if you havnt figured it out yet this is how civilization works.
zizzle
zizzle
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 6887
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 103

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by rincon Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:47 pm

Just "found" this section of GL Thumbs up

I don't see what is so impossible about hyperloop. Protecting a 600km track of hyperloop is no different than protecting a train track, which no one does. Screwing with a train track, or the train itself, would be just as deadly as screwing with a tube.

High speed trains also don't travel at these speeds. Most of them don't exceed (or reach) 300 km/h, maglev is around 400 km/h. With hyperloop its 800+. Reaching such a speed gets really tricky with a train because of drag, which is the whole point of the hyperloop. Half an hour between LA and San Francisco sounds fantastic, just like an hour or so between Paris and Berlin, etc.

The problem is building the tube in large scales. The low pressure throughout is tricky and expensive, but these challenges have been tackled before in other projects. Maybe it doesn't pan out, maybe it does. Its entirely possible though, just expensive and challenging, just like other great engineering breakthroughs.

If it can be built then it would (likely) be a very low energy and faster alternative to train transport. Its a worthy bet.
rincon
rincon
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 16445
Join date : 2012-06-07

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by Bellabong Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:05 pm

rincon wrote:Just "found" this section of GL Thumbs up

I don't see what is so impossible about hyperloop. Protecting a 600km track of hyperloop is no different than protecting a train track, which no one does. Screwing with a train track, or the train itself, would be just as deadly as screwing with a tube.

High speed trains also don't travel at these speeds. Most of them don't exceed (or reach) 300 km/h, maglev is around 400 km/h. With hyperloop its 800+. Reaching such a speed gets really tricky with a train because of drag, which is the whole point of the hyperloop. Half an hour between LA and San Francisco sounds fantastic, just like an hour or so between Paris and Berlin, etc.

The problem is building the tube in large scales. The low pressure throughout is tricky and expensive, but these challenges have been tackled before in other projects. Maybe it doesn't pan out, maybe it does. Its entirely possible though, just expensive and challenging, just like other great engineering breakthroughs.

If it can be built then it would (likely) be a very low energy and faster alternative to train transport. Its a worthy bet.


Shooting an AP bullet at a train may headshot multiple people at worst.

Shooting an AP bullet at tube at 99 pascal - You're going kill everyone in the hyperloop.

Hyperloop isn't even a "new concept" The idea of subjecting trains to a low pressure environment is 100 years old and look how little we've progressed since then.

Rincon tell me which other projects tackled this "tricky and expensive low pressure" and actually solved it? The solution to the Space Power Facility is a concrete reinforced aluminium dome; doesn't really apply to Hyperloop.

That demonstration in May was one of the biggest farce's I've ever seen; good job you demonstrated that electrical motors work - that's tech over 100 years old.

The only issue that Hyperloop faces that has been tackled is the expansion problem although I'm not sure you want to subject people to this:

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Expansion-bend-250x250 at 800km/h. You could also put the tube in a tunnel; but then you're going to want to build a tunnel that's ten times longer than anything ever built and if you compare the costs of building tunnels your 4.06 billion dollar tube (which is already fanciful since they haven't even designed the tube yet) is going to become 250 BILLION dollars on tunnel costs alone.
Bellabong
Bellabong
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : TSV 1860 Munich
Posts : 3474
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by rincon Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:47 pm

Making a bomb to derail a train is easier than getting armor piercing rounds and rifles for most people. Blowing up a segment of a highspeed train is gonna absolutely destroy it. In the end the risk is there.

No one has tackled and solved it, doesn't mean no one will in the future. Every big scientific and engineering challenge is uncharted territory, its always "more than we have done", longer, more expensive, bigger, tougher, more sophisticated.

I'm an engineer myself, with a masters in solid state chemistry, and doing a phd in materials engineering. The things we have done and are doing always seem a bit like science fiction, until we do it. The answer is never easy or it wouldn't be groundbreaking otherwise, but people are good at figuring it out.
rincon
rincon
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 16445
Join date : 2012-06-07

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by Bellabong Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:29 pm

Oh I never said it can't be done. It's just not commercially or economically viable because Hyperloop massively underestimates how big the problems are that they are facing.

Rincon do me a favour and read the Hyperloop alpha before you try and make Chemical Engineering relevant to Aerospace Engineering.

Then use your basic physics knowledge to pick out things like a turbine providing thrust... at 99pa.

Goddard; father of american rocketry tried to tackle the problem 100 years ago. The fact that we don't even have a working model 100 years later should tell you enough about the actual practicality. Just because a software billionaire rolls around and actually does throw money at it doesn't change anything.

This is coming from the same guy who thinks the most efficient mode of long range transport would a a VTOL supersonic electrical jet. High school physics/basic thermodynamics debunks that.
Bellabong
Bellabong
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : TSV 1860 Munich
Posts : 3474
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by rincon Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:59 pm

I have the hyperloop alpha, and nothing in that document is irrelevant to my education (Chemical or Materials engineering).

The only "foreign concept" for a chemical engineer in the alpha is figures 15 through 20 showing the stress on the pylons holding the tube. A concept that's basic enough, and is also entirely covered in materials engineering.

The most in depth piece of science in the document are the thermodynamic cycles describing the capsules. That is the backbone of chemical engineering. Thermodynamics and transport (fliud dynamics, heat transfer, mass transport). The rest is on the suspension and power (power conversion in this manner is mainly physical-chemistry and materials science).

The aerodynamics in there are mostly broad ideas and basis for proof-of-concept measurements, nothing alien.

The international space station exists, the large hadron collider exists, people are driven to solve these challenges. The idea of a flying machine was hundreds of years old before we made the airplanes, same for space travel.

I have no doubt that with enough willpower and talent behind something like this it will eventually be useful. The commercial solar cells we use today were developed decades ago, it took a while for them to become cost effective but in the end we are using them.

I can't be asked to get out of bed to do something repetitive and mundane, but working on new systems and trying to solve tough scientific challenges motivates me like nothing else. A lot of people in the field are like this about solving these problems.
rincon
rincon
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 16445
Join date : 2012-06-07

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by free_cat Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:21 pm

Hyperloop it's probably not impossible. It's just silly because it's way not cost effective (and also probably unsafe).

Here some good videos explaining why it's silly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVJvpNyjdc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk

Simply planes are just a much better option.
free_cat
free_cat
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by StrugaRock Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:27 am

Everybody here talks about hyperloop, while where I live we are yet to have a decent public transport
StrugaRock
StrugaRock
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Sao Paulo
Posts : 1267
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel? Empty Re: Is Hyperloop the future of high-speed travel?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum