Real Madrid Ideal Formation and Starting XI

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:16 am

Our players are clearly stepping out of the boundaries of their position anyway. Ronaldo would have a free role just like under pellegrini, and Benzema clearly does a lot more than your traditional CF.

And it's not like the forwards will literaly mark the fullbacks, they still go up. you do not stop a great full bacl from attacking. If he does, the defense will adapt without him, and will cover him.

if your fullback overlaps, you still have a line of 3 in defense, the DM and the two CMs in support, it's not any different from a 433 or other formations.

You picked an awful example tbh.

extreme wing play would give troubles to any team if executed well.

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Post by Adit on Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:28 am

I dont believe ronaldo and benz will track back enough playing as strikers,lets leave that at it.

My logic is pretty simple actually,if our forwards does not pressure wing backs we are literally out numbered in midfield,we can do nothing with a out numbered midfield.

Defending is different from 4-3-3 too,very different.In 4-3-3 wing backs are marked by wingers/inside forwards.Whome are there to mark in 4-3-1-2? none.Midfield can cover argument is flawed when we are out numbered in midfield.

I think your 4-3-1-2 believe is based on strong believe that our strikers will track back which i have no faith.

And no Villarreal vs Bayern was typical example of 4-3-1-2 getting owned by 4-2-3-1 with wing play.I found a nice little article about how the game was lost when garrido started with a 4-3-1-2 itself.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/09/14/villarreal-0-2-bayern-garrido-goes-4-3-1-2-and-villarreal-never-get-going/


"One must question Garrido’s choice of formation. First, it offered the full-backs no protection from Bayern’s wingers. If Garrido had done his homework, he would have known that Bayern work their left-hand side a lot this season (in the Bundesliga so far, 42% of their passes are played down that side, compared to 29% each through the centre and down the right), and Mario Gaspar was always likely to be facing a tough task against Franck Ribery.

4-3-1-2 against 4-2-3-1, then, except the 4-3-1-2 didn’t manage to dominate possession, the clear area of advantage in this match-up (by virtue of the numbers game in the centre of midfield). How did Bayern keep the ball so well? First, their full-backs were often free, and second, Bastian Schweinsteiger and Tymoschuk worked hard to make themselves available in the middle of the pitch.

Villarreal did try and close the full-backs down by moving Giuseppe Rossi and Nilmar wide onto them, but Bayern were still able to retain possession because Villarreal sat deep, didn’t press, and usually the holding midfielders and centre-backs were in space. Rossi and Nilmar moving wide did stop the Bayern full-backs moving forward, however, so Villarreal weren’t as prone to the 2 v 1s down the flank as Roma when they went 4-3-1-2 against Bayern last year."

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:47 am

yh let's leave it at that, we conceptualize two different things.

Again, villarreal vs bayern is a terrible example, for few reasons: 1) not their natural formation, clueless about the new tactic, 2) no playmaker so even on the ball they were poor, 3)villarreal game is all about the unit, which was broken by key absences, so clearly the quality of individuals cant match Bayern, 4) you said it yourself, they sat deep and didnt pree, what else to expect? they got swarmed.

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Post by Babun on Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:07 am

Adit, 4-3-1-2 is a lot more complicated/flexible than you think Very Happy 4-3-3 is one of the permutations of 4-3-1-2 Very Happy
Some wrong points in your version:
1. When the strikers aren't marking fullbacks, they're in midfield! 4-3-1-2 doesn't use targetmen or poachers if you want to use it right .The two strikers are fast attackers (someone like Muller, Pedro or Klose) .
When attacking only one of them goes wide Very Happy Count your numbers in midfield again then Very Happy
2. The formation isn't fixed. The three mids in the middle go wide,up or back or interchange places Very Happy It's one of the most complex formations Very Happy All depends on your opponent Very Happy
3. If you have a monster fullback in Marcelo, they have their problem marking him as well Very Happy
@Crimson wrote:-------------------------Casillas
Arbeloa---------Pepe--------------Ramos----------Marcelo
----------------------------Xabi
--------------Sahin-------------------Khedira
-----------------------------Ozil
---------------Benzema------------Ronaldo

My ultimate line-up personally speaking

That was my plan aswell in the old forums. I'd like us to try it out at some point Very Happy

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Post by SuperMAG on Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:00 pm

fantasy formations. here is my latest:

------------X Formation 4-2-3-1 (Main First Team Formation) X------------

_______________Casillas
Abate_______Pepe____Boateng____Cissokho
__________Ramos_____Bastian
Hazard___________Ozil____________Marcelo
_______________Benzema

------------X Formation 4-3-3 (Main First Team Formation) X------------

_______________Casillas
Abate____Smalling____Boating____Cissokho
________________Pepe
________Ramos_________Bastian
Marcelo_________Higuain_________Neymer


Full Squad (25):

GK: Iker Casillas - Adan - Jesus

RB: Gonzalo Abate - Alvaro Arbeloa - Chris Smalling
CB: Pepe - Raphel Varane
CB: Jerome Boateng - Chris Smalling
LB: Cissokho - Nacho - Jerome Boateng

DM: Sergio Ramos - Yann M,Villa - Alex Hernandes
CM: Bastian Schwienstiger - Alvaro Arbeloa - Alex Hernandes

WG-R: Eden Hazard - Pablo Sarbia - Jessi Rodreges
WG-L: Marcelo Perera - Neymer - Jessi Rodreges

AMC/SS: Mesut Ozil - Marcelo - Sergio Canales - Pablo Sarbia

ST: Gonzalo Higuain - Karim Benzema - Alvaro Morata

-------------------------------------

About 4-3-1-2, the thing about that formation is that u need to have fast wide CM's, you guys saw how we crushed milan last year when we played super fast counter attacks against them.

It can work but it will work to an extent, the attack wont be as strong as 4-2-3-1, the defence against counter wont be as strong as well.

But it will have a strong center midfeild defence/attack, which is its only advantage.

2 year's ago i wanted a formation like this when ronaldo was injured:

______________Casillas
Arbeloa____Ramos____Caravlho____Someone
_______Alonso___Pepe___Marcelo

_______________Kaka
________Higuain_______Benzema

It was one hellova of a counter attacking formation. but we strugled against parked bus teams.

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Post by Adit on Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:19 pm

nope i dont believe our strikers are good at track backing,and nope ,strikers will not be able to drop to midfield every time,thats just wrong.CR and Benz will barely track back,both lacks work rate,mentality and intelligent defending,cant see them pressuring any midfield.They will be there with the opposition CBs.

As i said in every posts,4-3-1-2 only works if you have good tactically disciplined strikers who provides good work rate and great tracking back.
The day before yesterday Rossi and Nilmar failed to pressure the fullbacks even though they did tried to trackback.Are ronaldo and Benz better than them at tracking back? Nope.

If they are not tracking back,easily we got out numbered in midfield.Then comes a 2 vs 1 situation on the flanks,then we are dead.

I cant think how 4-3-1-2 can defend with out having super work rate strikers who are always willing to track back.


see this its so easy to understand how 4-3-1-2 get out numbered by 4-2-3-1

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:51 pm

why mark people who do not have the ball on 1v1 and close?

if the ball switches wings, the defense slide to whichever direction it goes.

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Post by Adit on Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:20 pm

Thats what about it,simply got out numbered when strikers are not tracking back.Every counters with opposition full backs going up is a danger.Defense cant slide like a bar you know.playing a 4-3-1-2 with not track backing strikers means good bye to possession and match control.

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Post by lenear1030 on Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:36 am

didn't really know where to ask this, but when will sahin play?

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Post by Guest on Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:44 am

@lenear1030 wrote:didn't really know where to ask this, but when will sahin play?


When he's fit and 100% back from injury at least another month away

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Post by Adit on Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:48 pm

Real Madrid Ideal Formation and Starting XI  - Page 6 1304511001924224


some ones 4-3-1-2 loooooooooooooool

you know who is that Smile

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:54 am

_______________Casillas
Arbeloa_______Pepe____Ramos____Marcelo
__________Lass_____Nuri
Di Maria___________Ozil____________Cristiano Ronaldo
_______________Benzema

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@Myesyats wrote:Mane-Origi-Gigi forward line? :bow: It's not gonna be pretty for us.

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Post by Le Samourai on Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:53 am

Players out for upcoming must win games.

Ozil
Ramos
Di Maria

-----------Casillas------------
Lass--Pepe---Varane---Corentrao
---Khedira------Sahin---Xabi----
Ronaldo----Higuain-----------Benz

Xabi is going to be killed,he's already played 3600 minutes this season Shocked, and we have a slew of tough games.

Tough decisions...

Personally I wouldn't drop Benzema....I mean the other option is Kaka....so yea...



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Post by vanDEEZ on Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:04 pm

i think pepe is out too.

for his remarks after the match.
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