Tactics and Formations

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:05 am

@iftikhar wrote:-----------Mignolet----------
Glen-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique
-------Lucas--Gerrard-------
Suarez---Coutinho---Aspas
-----------Sturridge----------

If there  is no further changes (in or out) in the squad, do you think this is the best line-up! Also, how do you think it will perform given the potential back-ups: Reina, Kelly, Wisdom, Toure, Coates, Spearing, Allen, Henderson, Downing, Alberto, Rahim & Borini.
As I said before, this team will get *bleep* up against non-scrub teams. Midfield would get overrun.

Mignolet
Johnson - Agger - Touré - Enrique
Gerrard - Lucas - Henderson*
Sturridge - Suárez - Coutinho

* = or new signing.

Aspas in Suárez's absence.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by donttreadonred on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:19 pm

Nishank wrote:The big question is who fills that Suarez spot in the first 6 games hmm
If we're looking to play in the same setup even before Luis comes back from suspension, then the answer is obvious. From everything I've heard and read about him, our new #9 has the same sort of drive, attitude, and attacking positioning as Suarez. We should have the option of slotting Aspas into the Suarez  shaped whole in our attack, with only minor impact on the squad set-up. Obviously, Aspas is not of the same quality as Suarez, but he plays a similar role with a similar style.

As for the formation and line-up for the Stoke game:
Assuming there are no more additions/subtractions from the squad, I would definitely start in a lopsided 4-2-3-1.
Here's the best text representation I can muster at the moment.

Sturridge
-------------Aspas
Coutinho
Hendo------Gerrard-----
Enrique---Lucas-------Glenjo
Agger---Toure
Mignolet

Strikers (2)
Even though it's a 4-2-3-1 at heart, we're effectively playing with two strikers (Sturridge and Aspas/Suarez) moving and interchanging up top. This isn't dissimilar to the role Luis played at Ajax that resulted in so much confusion about his "best position". Though Luis would start in the RF position, the two would swap and interchange throughout a match. Both Aspas and Sturridge can also play either position (and have in the past), meaning that there might just be some method to the transfer madness.

Midfield (4)
Coutinho would obviously take up a fairly traditional CAM (#10) position, which caters to his strengths. His defensive duties would be light, as he really fits the mold of a traditional trequartista more than a traditional English #10. Though, knowing his personality and playing style, he will track back and tackle someone who has 50+ lbs on him.

Henderson and Gerrard will be crucial. Hendo’s work rate on the left and ability to interchange with Enrique will be necessary to support the midfield when out of possession and the attack when we have the ball. Gerrard, will once again be the heartbeat of the team, sitting in his deeper position and looking for one of Coutinho and/or Suarez to pull the strings in the final third.

Lucas, assuming he gets back to his old self, will sit just in front of the CB pairing. After several injuries, his physical ability and game-reading has yet to truly return. If he can get back to his imperious performances of the first half of 2011-12, then we should be just fine. Likewise, Allen could do this role if needed, as he looked quite good prior to the shoulder injury severely affecting his performances. That said, I still want a more physical alternative to Lucas/Allen at DM. Kondogbia would be my totally unrealistic choice, but that’s a discussion for another thread.

Defense (4)
Enrique and Johnson are really the only options for attacking fullbacks at the moment. Wisdom and Kelly are good RBs, but they don’t offer nearly the forward movement of Johnson. On the left, there is no real alternative to Enrique, yet. Robinson is making progress, but I’m not comfortable with him starting in the league just yet. The fullbacks will be primarily responsible for our width with Henderson and Suarez/Aspas as the wide players. Both forward wide players will look to cut inside, leaving plenty of room for the fullbacks, especially Johnson.

Without another central defensive signing , there is still very much a CB slot in play at the moment. If we don’t bring in an obvious first-choice player, I’m pulling for Skrtel to regain his form. I would love to see the Skrtel of 2011-12 return, but I do think it’s somewhat unlikely. Therefore, I have put Kolo Toure as Agger’s partner in this lineup. He may not be anyone’s definition of a spritely, spring-chicken, but he still has a few seasons left in his legs. He is capable of doing the job for us, and he brings his leadership and loud mouth to the backline.

GK
Mignolet… I just don’t buy that he was brought in purely for cover. Maybe Rodgers will prove me wrong, but I see one of two things happening:
1) Reina leaves for some location to be determined later (maybe Barca).
2) Mignolet wins the “competition” and becomes the new #1.
He’s no slouch as a shot-stopper (arguably better than Reina over the past few seasons), and he will be very motivated with the World Cup coming up. The concerns over his distribution are legitimate, but I doubt that he will be benched solely on that basis. If he wins the competition in other areas, he will be given the chance to improve his distribution in competition. In addition, I don’t think the leadership of the backline will be viewed as a crucial issue if another vocal character (Toure) is playing in central defense.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:16 pm

I would love to start the season in the same fashion as we ended, playing more on counter. I think to get a brilliant head start and grow in confidence, we need to win games in the start of the season. So we can gradually come into our natural possesion based game because we have added new faces and lost suarez (for six games) and may be sturridge too (for first few matches, hopefully not and I hope he is fit enough to start straightaway).

Let's see like to like competition, skillwise or positionwise in our team:
Mignolet-Reina
Enrique-Robinson
Jonhson-Wisdom
Agger-Kelly
Skrtel-Toure
Lucas-
gerrard-Allen
Hendo-
(Coutinho-Alberto
Suarez-Downing, Sterling, Ibe
Sturridge-Borin, Aspas)

Left side can be expected to be the starting 11. In the bracket, the players are pretty felxible position wise and I guess it will be diffucult to name like to like replacement.I think I need help completing this.

So after a long time we have quite a few options for the final third of the attack. As we clearly see the CM area and defence we still lack quality depth.  
GK: I am not yet completely sold on Mignolet, I will be satisfied with him when he can show the same stats as previous year in our RED shirt. I feel that for a GK it is quite different,
---- being called to make saves for several times when playing for another club and
---- being called just 2-3 times but for quality saves under pressure for a team like us.

Defence: I guess youngsters should be given few chances in EPL, here BR can go blunt about it if senrios are not performing for us. I am sure Kelly and Wisdom can do much better than what we have seen till now.

Midfield and attack: If downing does not leave, I am expecting that he will start few matches for everyone's dislike.  
Also, I want Hendo to start almost every match if we dont sign another player. Leaving coutinho alone near and around that CAM area is quite risky.
Other than that if Sturridge and Suarez can carry us throughout the season, it will be a realistic wonder to dream of.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:28 am

So what do you guys think our starting XI and bench will be with a fully fit squad? IMO:

Mignolet
Johnson - Touré - Sakho/Agger - Enrique
Henderson - Lucas - Gerrard
Suarez - Sturridge - Coutinho

Subs: Jones, Kelly, Sakho/Agger, Allen, Alberto, Moses, Aspas

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by mr-r34 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:37 am

Im baffled that you Sakho/Agger it's going to be Sakho/Toure .

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:47 am

@mr-r34 wrote:Im baffled that you Sakho/Agger it's going to be Sakho/Toure .
me too...it is not about EE alone, just that how much Toure has impressed that we are facing this headache as to whom to select at the back

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Temp

Post by iftikhar on Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:48 pm

I think It's going to be Shako-Agger. However, with Toure we now we have the luxury of resting Agger now & then and sub either CB when they have a simple knock. Hope you didn't mean Henderson playing on the wings :-)

------------Mognolet------------
Johnson-Shako-Agger-Enrique
---------Lucas---Gerrad---------
Suarez--Henderson--Coutinho
------------Sturridge-------------

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by vegfootball on Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:20 pm

how is  Suárez going to fit into the team, he has only played one out & out time out wide for us vs Arsenal & most of his games was about defensive & we did not see a lot attacking

he not good enough to take Sturridge ( are new prolific record Striker) place

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by mr-r34 on Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:29 pm

@iftikhar wrote:I think It's going to be Shako-Agger. However, with Toure we now we have the luxury of resting Agger now & then and sub either CB when they have a simple knock. Hope you didn't mean Henderson playing on the wings :-)

------------Mognolet------------
Johnson-Shako-Agger-Enrique
---------Lucas---Gerrad---------
Suarez--Henderson--Coutinho
------------Sturridge-------------
I like that, with one of our wide forwards coming in for Hendo and suarez shifted into the middle, as another possible formation.

If we wanted a more attacking line-up

------------Mognolet------------
Johnson-Shako-Agger-Enrique
---------Lucas---Gerrad---------
Moses/Aspas--Suarez--Coutinho
------------Sturridge-------------

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by vegfootball on Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:33 pm

i think we don't need to make big change, put the right players in right playing position & i think we be ok

------------Mognolet------------
Johnson-Shako-Agger-Enrique
---------Lucas---Gerrad---------
Moses------Henderson--Coutinho
------------Sturridge-------------

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:08 pm

@mr-r34 wrote:Im baffled that you Sakho/Agger it's going to be Sakho/Toure .
Agger IMO is unreliable, like Skrtel. He was impressive against United but is full of brainfarts when we face weaker teams. Toure was obviously the better of the two in our opening games. Were going to drop two points if not for Mignolet, against Stoke..

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:34 pm

I think we'll be going with the 3 in the back. I'll elaborate more on that later tonight but seriously think Rodgers plans to go with that.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:02 am

Here we go, like I said I expect us to play with 3 CBs.

Mignolet
Skrtel - Sakho - Agger
Johnson - Lucas - Gerrard - Enrique
Coutinho
Suarez --- Sturridge

That's the most balanced team if we go with a 3-4-1-2/3-5-2. Obviously we can have Cissokho as the LWB if he turns out better in attack than Enrique. It doesn't really matter who the third CB is between Skrtel, Kolo or Ilori.

OR

Mignolet
Toure - Sakho - Agger
Johnson - Lucas - Gerrard - Hendo
Coutinho
Suarez --- Sturridge

This one is my personal favorite as you have Hendo starting. What this allows us to do is interchange between 5 at the back and 4 at the back more smoothly. If need be Agger/Sakho can move to the left and Johnson can drop back as a RB then you've got our natural formation we're using right now 4-2-3-1. Hendo in this line up will not necessarily be a left wingback but more of a LM/LCM (left midfielder). I like Johnson in this formation because he offers more than Enrique attacking wise but if need be we could easily just do this by dropping Gleninho and having Hendo as RM/RCM and playing Enrique as the left wing back, kind of like so

Mignolet
Ilori - Sakho - Agger
Hendo - Lucas - Gerrard - Enrique
Coutinho
Suarez --- Sturridge

What this formation also does, it maximizes Coutinho's ability to get involved more often. We know our attack is fluid and love to interchange positions during the course of the match. Well Coutinho now has the freedom to roam 360 degrees all around the attack. Playing him on the left minimizes his ability to get involved. Sure he has a little more room on the wing to operate since it's a clusterf*ck in the middle of the pitch with so many bodies. However, on the wing Coutinho is limited to only 180 degrees of passing lanes, and all of the play is to his right which means defenders can read his moves much easier. To make my point on this clear, you just have to wait for Suarez to come back then defenses cannot gamble on marking Cou with 2/3 guys because Suarez will be a menace if left unmarked.

Another thing this formation does is it never leaves Sturridge stranded by himself up top if we decide to hold on to 1 goal leads and park the bus. You now have Suarez also causing havoc up top with him and harassing defenders with his presence alongside Studge. In the 3 games so far once we decided to hold on to our lead Studge was basically rendered useless in attack as he's all by himself and any competent back 4 can deal with one guy.

And finally our biggest problem with our fullbacks could potentially be solved. Both Enrique and Johnson love to maraud forward leaving tons of space behind. Well now you have 3 CBs and Lucas covering for them when they do it, and it gives them much more freedom to express themselves without fearing the oppositions counter attacks.

For the Swansea match after the break I'd love to see

Mignolet
Skrtel - Sakho - Agger
Hendo - Lucas - Gerrard - Enrique
Coutinho
Moses --- Sturridge

Skrtel needs to be rewarded for his great performance against Yanited. And this is assuming we don't want to Rush Kolo and Glen back from their injuries. As for having Moses ahead of Aspas is just he's much more physical and pacier than Iago which could help stretch the defense.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:48 pm

The reason I prefer this formation is having an another body in midfield, which might help us not to get dominated by other midfields.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by El Jefe on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:27 pm

Agree with everything McAgger said. I'm a massive fan of 3 at the back, only problem is when we play a team with 1 striker it leaves one of our centre backs redundant.

Gives us some massive advantages when playing a side using a 442. We can deal with their 2 strikers with a man to spare, the 2 CM's match up against their 2, with Coutinho roaming around and giving us an extra man in there when we need it. Two wing backs hopefully drive their wingers back. Only opposition players that wouldn't have someone right in front of them are the full backs, they could cause problems if they push forward, but if they want to leave Sturridge and Suarez 2 vs 2 against their centre backs I'm not complaining.

As long as you've got CB's who are good in the air (Sakho) you should be okay with attacking full backs, we switched to a back 3 when Coates came on at Goodison. Baines an Coleman had quite a bit of space and lots of crosses came in but we dealt with it pretty easily.

Speaking of that game, I was impressed with Rodgers making that switch. It was brave of him, would have got slaughtered if it went wrong. In the first half Joe Allen was trying to get in front of Fellaini and stop the supply to him but it wasn't working, sometimes it wasn't Allen's fault. A couple of times he got in the way, got booted, elbowed and thrown everywhere by Fellaini and the referee let it go. But the sub to bring Coates on pretty much took away Fellaini's threat.



This is what I'm talking about. EVERTON got the free kick as well!

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by RedOranje on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:35 pm

Well, thankfully we won't have to worry about that dirty twat at all this season bar the match at Old Trafford. If Moyes opts to deploy him as a CDM he may end up suspended a fair amount of the time as well.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:41 pm

fellaini at CDM Laughing i would love to see that Wink 

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by RedOranje on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:52 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:fellaini at CDM :lol:i would love to see that Wink 
Well, with Rooney, Kagawa, RvP, Welbeck, and Cleverley all available it would be near-madness to play him in the same role that he regularly played for Moyes at Everton. It seems reasonable to expect he'll be played in midfield alongside Carrick in either a variation of a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:50 pm

I've been posting it in the wrong threads, but yeah, I definitely like the idea of at least trying out a three CB system.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:03 pm

lol.. playing a three CB system is not easy as it looks. You cannot magically expect players to transition smoothly. You can see out games but using it from the word go will not work as you guys are hoping.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:23 pm

If you put emphasis on it on training of course it will. And I'm not saying it's mandatory we transition in the middle of a match between 4 and 3 at the back. What I'm saying is that it is a possibility.

We did it pretty smoothly for the first time against Everton last season. We started with 4 at the back but Rodgers quickly changed the team and played 3 at the back. That was the first time and we did just fine.

But obviously I'm not expecting it to be done overnight. Eventually, as I see it we might just change to 3 at the back.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:20 pm

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:lol.. playing a three CB system is not easy as it looks. You cannot magically expect players to transition smoothly. You can see out games but using it from the word go will not work as you guys are hoping.
Dalglish used a 3-CB system occasionally for us and it worked fine, but I'm not saying it's bound to be good, but we certainly should try it with the players we have.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by RedOranje on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:12 pm


Andy Hunter
The Guardian, Tuesday 3 September 2013 22.30 BST


Liverpool's manager, Brendan Rodgers, has decided Luis Suárez will operate out wide when he returns from a 10-match ban, with Daniel Sturridge immovable as Liverpool's front-line striker.

Suárez has two matches left to serve of his suspension for biting the Chelsea defender Branislav Ivanovic and will make his return in the Capital One Cup clash at Manchester United on 25 September. But he is expected to feature on the flanks for Liverpool, with Philippe Coutinho moving into the centre behind the lone striker, as Rodgers leaves Sturridge to continue his devastating early-season form for Liverpool.

The England international has scored five goals in four Liverpool victories so far this season, the latest coming in Sunday's 1-0 defeat of Manchester United. Combined with Suárez's protracted efforts to move from Anfield this summer, the Liverpool manager believes the Uruguay international must force his way back as the focal point of the team's attack and that Sturridge is established in his position. The new loan signing from Chelsea, Victor Moses, is expected to operate on the opposite wing to Suárez once the striker returns from his suspension.

Rodgers, meanwhile, has maintained that Fabio Borini has a future at Anfield despite allowing the Italian forward to join Sunderland on a season-long loan. Borini was Rodgers' first signing as Liverpool manager, in a £10.5m deal from Roma, but struggled for form and with injuries last season.

The Liverpool manager explained: "He had a stop-start season last year with his injuries and I just felt this year he needed to go and play football. With Daniel Sturridge, Luis Suárez, Iago Aspas and some of the other attacking players, that might have been limited.

"I have a real belief in Fabio – he is a talent and we've seen that on occasions, but he needs to be playing regularly to demonstrate that talent. We had a host of clubs wanting to take him, but with Sunderland having the Italian connection there and being a big club where he can go and play, I'm sure he'll get the chance to shine and we'll look closely at his development this year."
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/03/brendan-rodgers-luis-suarez-liverpool?CMP=twt_gu

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by donttreadonred on Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:27 am

@RedOranje wrote:
HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:fellaini at CDM :lol:i would love to see that Wink 
Well, with Rooney, Kagawa, RvP, Welbeck, and Cleverley all available it would be near-madness to play him in the same role that he regularly played for Moyes at Everton.  It seems reasonable to expect he'll be played in midfield alongside Carrick in either a variation of a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1.
So, if it makes sense to use Fellaini at CDM, then we can expect Moyes to deploy him at AM and hit long-balls directly to him, right?

As for the 3-5-2, I'm not convinced. Transitions often seem slow, and are necessarily funneled through the center of the pitch. With more lower-table sides "packing the midfield" in order to stymie our possession techniques, trying to play through the middle at all times would only cater to their tactics. The single "wide" player player also puts a great deal of responsibility on the the wing-back not only to get forward, but also in defense. It's also quite susceptible to the opposition's overlapping fullback. Besides, Rodgers just likes his wide forwards.

IMO, the 4-2-2-2 we're using now looks to be tailor-made to get the best of Sturridge and Suarez. It allows Sturridge to stretch the play while Suarez drops off to receive the ball earlier. The workrate of Coutinho and Henderson really make it possible, moving inside to create and support the strikers in attack and drifting wide in defense to support the marauding fullbacks.

I personally think this setup was devised with a Suarez/Sturridge partnership in mind, and I would be surprised to see it change with Suarez's reintroduction. Then again, Andy hunter is usually fairly reliable. That said, it's a strange article. He makes the tactical claim in the introduction and then moves onto other points without so much as hinting at a quote or giving a reason other than the apparently obvious assumption that we can play with a single striker. To me, this is more an article about Sturrdige's position than anything else. In which case, there is absolutely no news here, as Rodgers has always seen Sturridge as a line-leading centre-forward.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:17 am

Suarez out wide, well, if it works, then cool, but he is our best player and his best position is in the center, so... Well, let's see.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by mr-r34 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:32 am

I don't mind suarez out wide if we deploy a 3 man midfield of SG, LL and JH. But if we play with more of an attacking team, we should deploy him behind DS. DS has been leading our line for a while now and has done a wonderful job, you can't justify taking it away from him, his nearly at a goal per game for us, that's freaking amazing.

Lucas - Gerrard
Hendo
Suarez Coutinho
Sturridge

or


Lucas - Gerrard
Moses Suarez Coutinho
Sturridge

I wouldn't also mind

Lucas - Gerrard
Moses Coutinho
Suarez
Sturridge


I guess it all depends on who we vs and how BR wants to go about it.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

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