Tactics and Formations

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Wed 20 Aug - 4:05

It's getting a bit crazy how much we're analyzing one conceded goal.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Wed 20 Aug - 4:07

@Art Morte wrote:It's getting a bit crazy how much we're analyzing one conceded goal.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Wed 20 Aug - 8:11

I know it is just one goal but the way we concede is so stupid. I mean it seems like the very basics of defending are not followed by the players or not instructed by coach. As I said, lets wait and watch in this season, if we improve tactically.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Nishankly on Thu 21 Aug - 5:08

Coutinho will be benched again Sad

I dont want him playing the third of 3 CM's. It's basically Gerrard-Henderson then.

Remy or Eto'o would have accepted a smaller role than Balo.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Thu 21 Aug - 5:34

Balotelli will not start on Monday. That said there's a lot of tactical flexibility here. We can play two strikers, we can play one striker and we will need rest days for guys like Sturridge especially.

Manquillo-Lovren-Sakho-Enrique
Gerrard
Henderson-Can/Coutinho
Sterling
Sturridge-Balotelli

Loving it.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Thu 21 Aug - 6:37

El Cujo wrote:Balotelli will not start on Monday. That said there's a lot of tactical flexibility here. We can play two strikers, we can play one striker and we will need rest days for guys like Sturridge especially.

Manquillo-Lovren-Sakho-Enrique
Gerrard
Henderson-Can/Coutinho
Sterling
Sturridge-Balotelli

Loving it.

Coutinho's best position is at the tip of the diamond or CAM role. And don't forget Markovic & Lallana who can potentially stake their claim for that position as well. So we got FOUR players (two in their crucial stage of progression and two other acquired for a fortune) fighting for a single spot. To what end???
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Thu 21 Aug - 7:27

It's not the only formation we will use this year, and nobody is really set in stone in their positions. The point is bringing in WC talent to play on the team that Rodgers can work with.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Thu 21 Aug - 10:09

Our best/most effective formations in last season (when we had two starting quality striker) was 433 and 442-diamond. If we arrange our squad (so far) according to those two formations,

-----------Mignolet-----------
Manquillo-Lovern-Sakho-Moreno
-----------Gerrard------------
-----Henderson--Coutinho-----
Raheem----Sturridge----Balotelli

I doubt Balotelli can play (both in terms of technical ability and work-rate) in the WF/Winger role. Even then, it will mean keeping Lallana (CAM) & Markovic (WF) on the bench. While I love (and been dreaming of) a deep & quality (Aspas, Moses FFS) bench, keeping two 42 million worth players there doesn't sound prudent to me. I think both Lallana & Markovic needs to play regularly if they are to contribute/develop satisfactorily. We may try either Lallana (as CAM) or Markovic (as WF) instead of Balotelli; but same problem will remain, in addition to the ego of Super Mario.

-----------Mignolet-----------
Manquillo-Lovern-Sakho-Moreno
-----------Gerrard------------
------Henderson--Lallana------
-----------Coutinho-----------
-----Sturridge-----Balotelli-----

In this case we would be benching two highly talented youngsters in Raheem & Markovic who needs to play regularly to develop (& contribute) satisfactorily.

I think this season will be stern test for Rodger's man-management skills (aside others). We will have 60-odd games, and he will have to shuffle the deck smartly enough not only to give enough time to some players but to get the most out of them as well.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Thu 21 Aug - 11:44

I think you guys are worrying too much about style, formations and who has to sit on the bench. The players will understand that there's competition for spots and most of them are versatile enough to play different roles and systems. The season's always long and all of the important players will have a role to play.

I'm happy with the way our squad is looking like, presuming that we have known what we've done with our summer signings.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by donttreadonred on Sat 23 Aug - 5:50

Art has a very good point here.

I love talking tactics just as much as anyone, but we cannot worry about who gets benched by new additions and we really shouldn't get hung up trying to shoe-horn a perceived best XI into a single formation.

Last season we bemoaned a lack of depth all season, and it likely cost us the title in the end. Now, we have a bit of cover, and all we can do is fret about who will get playing time in certain formations.

What we have to remember is that we're playing far more matches this season, and we need to have more than 12 or 13 players of true starting quality. We need options such as Lallana, Sterling, or Coutinho at the tip of the diamond, or Allen, Can, or Coutinho as the third midfielder. Each of those players has a different skills set that they bring to the squad.

Last season we were faced with very few options to alter the squad's dynamics. With a slew of tactical options, Rodgers will have the opportunity to tailor the squad's strengths to the opponents weaknesses as well as the luxury of selecting well rested players despite the congested schedule. Moreover, that congested schedule will necessitate that more players are afforded opportunities to start and play significant minutes. If a consistent XI are selected across all competitions this season, I will be very concerned.

Now, with that said, there is a perfectly legitimate conversation to be had surrounding what our Best XI is when all players are fit. However, to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure we have one. I believe the "best XI" will depend on the opponent. For example, Can's power and tenacity in midfield might be needed against certain teams where Allen's retention and calm might be required against others. Once again, we have options. We will see a core of ~15 players that will see the majority of minutes in major competitions.

Ultimately, what we have to get used to is the idea that even our best players won't be on the pitch all the time, and that is okay.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Mon 25 Aug - 19:11

I think our best line-up right now is the 4-4-2 diamond, but it also offers a lot of tactical versatility to change formations when necessary (such as bringing Balotelli or Sturridge off for a winger or Coutinho and moving Sterling over).

Manquillo-Lovren-Sakho-Moreno
Gerrard
Henderson-Allen
Sterling
Sturridge-Balotelli
Then you can rotate in the likes of Coutinho, Lallana and Markovic as well as Can, Skrtel and Enrique. Switching between the diamond and the 4-3-3.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Tue 26 Aug - 2:05

our defense Laughing

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Sat 6 Sep - 3:59

I guess there's (still) no definitive words on how long Sturridge will be missing or when Lallana will return. But as things stands now, we can expect some change in team-sheet & formation for the coming games.

I have read few posts that suggest Balotelli is best at playing SS and not that comfortable playing the #9. While I don't know if that's true, if it's, we may see Rodgers persisting with two upfront.

-----------Mignolet-----------
Manquillo-Lovern-Sakho-Moreno
------------Gerrard-----------
-------Henderson--Allen-------
------------Raheem-----------
--------Balotelli--Ricky--------

However, Rodgers may decide to revert to 433 which worked so well for us last season. He may also think the benefits of having two pacy-tricky wingers far out weights any disadvantages of playing Balotelli as #9.

-----------Mignolet-----------
Manquillo-Lovern-Sakho-Moreno
------------Gerrard-----------
-------Henderson--Allen-------
--Raheem---Balotelli---Markovic
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Nishankly on Tue 16 Sep - 13:13

Lovren-Sakho is still the way to go?

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by RedOranje on Tue 16 Sep - 13:42

Given that every other combination has shown the same issues and these two theoretically have the most potential as individuals and a partnership, it still looks that way. Partnerships and understanding can take time to develop so perhaps as they get more games together it will come. That's what I'm hoping for, in any case.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Tue 16 Sep - 14:21

Where are the diamond haters now ??

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by RedOranje on Tue 16 Sep - 17:02

No one "hates" the diamond you hyperbolic, knee-jerking drama queen. You can't complain about posters being overly emotional and reactionary in one breath and then go and do your usual post-match rash overreaction in the next. It's hugely hypocritical and disrespectful to those other posters.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Tue 16 Sep - 21:09

Lovren hasn't convinced me at all yet, not with his reading of the game nor with his man-to-man defending. Yeah, I can give him more time, but I'd definitely have Skrtel & Sakho as our main partnership right now.

About the diamond, we probably should go with it at the moment. At least when Sturridge is fit again.

The problems with the 4-3-3 are that I think all three of Sterling, Coutinho and Lallana are better centrally than out wide and, secondly, that when we need to break down a defence through possession rather than counter-attack, we don't seem to create much anything from the wings. Our players prefer to attack through the middle, it seems to come more naturally to most of them.

I do like our three-man midfield with two guys playing in front of Gerrard and think we should keep that, so our formation should basically be either 4-3-3 or the diamond and the former hasn't really worked out lately.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Red Alert on Tue 16 Sep - 23:37

We need a number 10. We have no creativity now that Coutinho is out of form and it's pretty clear to see. That's mostly due to the fact that he's covered a lot more due to the attention of Luis shifted (given his obvious departure) and Cou is still quite young, so this isn't a go at Cou, just that it's a worry in the squad.

And it's quite clear we play A LOT better with 2 strikers, so why is Borini/Lambert on the bench? Atleast if we play 2 up front it's easier to create chances given the opposition has more players to worry about which frees up space for ourselves. :facepalm:

Nishy wrote:Lovren-Sakho is still the way to go?



Lovren would need replacing in the squad as the "third" CB let alone a starter. He brings so much panic to the back it's disgusting. People can go on about "giving him time, early days" yada yada, he's not good (for a "top team" anyway). It's as simple as that. Again, he's inferior to Skrtel, and unfortunately it looks like he's going to play regularly because his now "Rodgers man" and we spunked 20m on him. But sure, let's get people who rate players off of "whoscored" to tell me he's easily better than Martin given the fact that we were interested in him. :facepalm:
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by mr-r34 on Wed 17 Sep - 0:35

Does anyone think playing a front two of sterling and Mario would work?

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Wed 17 Sep - 3:26

I think 433 is effective if Sturridge is playing. Haven't seen Lambert so can't say anything about him. Balotelli needs a CF-partner to be effective and can be suitable for 442-diamond.

----------Gerrard----------
---Henderson--Coutinho*---
Raheem-Sturridge-Markovic#

* Lallana as alternative
# Coutinho as alternative

-----Gerrard-----
Henderson--Allen*
----Coutinho#----
Balotelli--Sturridge

* Lallana as alternative
# Raheem as alternative

I think in the last two games we didn't pick the right players for a given system or didn't pick the best system for a given set of players.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Wed 17 Sep - 5:05

I don't think RA has played or coached a day of football in his life. Actually wonder if he even watches the games. Says Lovren brings so much panic to our backline then advocates for Skrtel lmao

Anyway it's quite clear with the personnel we have that the diamond or a 4-2-3-1 is the way to go. The 4-2-3-1 is something that requires a lot of mobility in midfield though and as long as Gerrard is in it's not optimal (not advocating getting Stevie out thought he was great yesterday).

I would go with:

Manquillo - Lovren - Sakho - Moreno
Gerrard
Henderson - Allen
Sterling
Borini - Balotelli

Rotate players like Coutinho, Lambert, Lallana, Markovic and Lucas in for now.

As I mentioned before I'm still concerned about Mignolet's ability to be a top level keeper.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Wed 17 Sep - 5:34

I think I'd play the 4-3-3 in difficult away games as it suits counter-attacking very well and otherwise play the diamond.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Wed 17 Sep - 8:40

I would just switch to a 4-4-2 or even a 3-5-2 for difficult away games.

Manquillo-Lovren-Sakho-Moreno
Henderson-Gerrard-Allen
Sterling
Sturridge-Balotelli

I think is the ideal starting XI right now for home and mid-lower table away games.

Then maybe something like this:

Skrtel-Lovren-Sakho
Sterling-----Gerrard-----Moreno
Henderson-Allen
Balotelli
Sturridge

For really tough away matches like Chelsea, City, Arsenal and maybe even United.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Don't call me James on Wed 17 Sep - 11:23

I think at this point it's very clear that the diamond is what we should got with.

At the moment it's difficult for Rodgers to do that because Allen and Sturridge, two of the most important ingredients in that formation, are injured. I would also not have any confidence in Lambert or Borini to start so I don't blame him.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Red Alert on Thu 18 Sep - 2:31

El Cujo wrote:I don't think RA has played or coached a day of football in his life. Actually wonder if he even watches the games. Says Lovren brings so much panic to our backline then advocates for Skrtel lmao

Anyway it's quite clear with the personnel we have that the diamond or a 4-2-3-1 is the way to go. The 4-2-3-1 is something that requires a lot of mobility in midfield though and as long as Gerrard is in it's not optimal (not advocating getting Stevie out thought he was great yesterday).

I would go with:

Manquillo - Lovren - Sakho - Moreno
Gerrard
Henderson - Allen
Sterling
Borini - Balotelli

Rotate players like Coutinho, Lambert, Lallana, Markovic and Lucas in for now.

As I mentioned before I'm still concerned about Mignolet's ability to be a top level keeper.


Played for 7 years, not sure on how that's relevant. I'm also an FM god, I average a 77% win ratio so the jokes on you son. That's over a span of 10 years too. Proud

I definitely don't watch games, I just read whoscored and say X player is better than Y because of his "pros" and "cons" and "match rating" and all that other shit you look into. Laughing

Skrtel brings panic once every 2-4 games (which isn't good enough, but I will "advocate" him for the time being considering he's still in our "best XI"), Lovren brings it into every game. He's not even better than Agger ffs, and we lost out on 15m+ in this whole ordeal. But yeah, go back to praising Dejan as we'll go on to concede another 50+ in the league. Sad

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