Tactics and Formations

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Red Alert on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:31 am

El Cujo wrote:I don't think RA has played or coached a day of football in his life. Actually wonder if he even watches the games. Says Lovren brings so much panic to our backline then advocates for Skrtel lmao

Anyway it's quite clear with the personnel we have that the diamond or a 4-2-3-1 is the way to go. The 4-2-3-1 is something that requires a lot of mobility in midfield though and as long as Gerrard is in it's not optimal (not advocating getting Stevie out thought he was great yesterday).

I would go with:

Manquillo - Lovren - Sakho - Moreno
Gerrard
Henderson - Allen
Sterling
Borini - Balotelli

Rotate players like Coutinho, Lambert, Lallana, Markovic and Lucas in for now.

As I mentioned before I'm still concerned about Mignolet's ability to be a top level keeper.


Played for 7 years, not sure on how that's relevant. I'm also an FM god, I average a 77% win ratio so the jokes on you son. That's over a span of 10 years too. Proud

I definitely don't watch games, I just read whoscored and say X player is better than Y because of his "pros" and "cons" and "match rating" and all that other shit you look into. Laughing

Skrtel brings panic once every 2-4 games (which isn't good enough, but I will "advocate" him for the time being considering he's still in our "best XI"), Lovren brings it into every game. He's not even better than Agger ffs, and we lost out on 15m+ in this whole ordeal. But yeah, go back to praising Dejan as we'll go on to concede another 50+ in the league. Sad

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:03 pm

I think it's funny that you are talking about FM, then bring up whoscored (mentioning the terms like an expert) then claim others are the ones that use it. Meanwhile it's plain as day that Skrtel is one of the most panicked defenders probably in the EPL (at least for any top side) and the only thing that saves him is his clearance ability and last man tackles. Hell, if fouls were called consistently he might see red multiple times a year for his idiocy.

Keep projecting about only reading whoscored and keep playing FM though. Thumbs up

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:11 pm

@mr-r34 wrote:Does anyone think playing a front two of sterling and Mario would work?

the problem is who will play behind them...Cou is off form as of now, so Lallana can be an option but imo better start Borini and Balo with Sterling in 10 or Lallana and Balo together up front with Sterling behind

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:13 pm

banana
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:19 pm

what ?

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:10 pm

El Cujo, Red Alert is the biggest joke of our section, don't waste your time.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:15 pm

@Don't call me James wrote:El Cujo, Red Alert is the biggest joke of our section, don't waste your time.

poor RA Laughing

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:21 am

I didn't want to talk about this in the other thread where it was brought up, but after seeing Rodgers switch to the 3-5-2 last game it gave me a bit of hope that he may look to it in the future. Personally I think that it's the best formation in football, and we have a squad that could really make very good use of it. Our best XI right now I think would look like this:

Skrtel-Sakho-Lovren
Sterling-Henderson-Gerrard-Allen-Moreno
Balotelli-Sturridge

Moreno and Sterling have pace to burn and are also adequate defenders that will put in the work to track back. Balotelli likes to drop back and provide the ball and take long shots so he would link up well with Sterling and Henderson with their forward runs while Allen gets forward but prefers little passing plays (and Moreno has a real nice cross). Coutinho can also play in for Allen instead if he can rekindle his form.

I hope Rodgers isn't shy about using this formation moving forward because if he works on it enough it could be very strong especially with our defensive deficiencies.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Kick on Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:33 am

Seems like a waste of Sterling, to me.

Skrtel Sakho Lovren
Manquillo Henderson Gerrard Moreno
Sterling
Balotello Sturridge

Looks better but you really need a better RM.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Art Morte on Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:59 am

I don't think the formations we're currently using - mainly the 4-3-3 and the diamond - are the problem.

We haven't looked disjointed in any game and have been able to get the ball and play with it. What has made our performances poor has been a shaky defence and an out-of-ideas attack.

I don't believe a formation change is the key to fixing the defence as it's mostly been individual mistakes rather than tactics-based problems that have resulted in us conceding goals.

As for the attack, the problems have been that there's not enough movement and that we seem to be too stubborn to pass, pretty much try to walk the ball, through the center of a packed defence. Those problems are not down to the formation.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Nishankly on Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:20 am

The problem in attack is that we have no mobile forwards once Sturridge is not fit.

None of our playmakers or wingers cross the ball. You can notice them trying to play through balls to Baloteli and Lambert which they cant chase. These guys get frustrated and drop deep or go wide where they absolutely useless, They either end up crossing to 5'7 Sterling or playing it back to the midfield and then taking their time to get back to the center so we have start all over again.

I mentioned it on twitter as well to RO, Even though we played Lallana, Sterling and Markovic. Manquillo and Jose where the only players thinking about crossing the ball to Lambert or Balotelli.

Basically we will do what we did against Spurs once Danny is back. Play Balo upfront, Sturridge behind/beside him where both the freedom to roam, Sacrifice a play making midfielder for another CM Allen/Can for balance and do the usual.
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Helmer on Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:19 am

El Cuho, 3-5-2 is bad for us and there is nothing like a best formation in football.

@Art, agree with you partially. Our specific formation also makes sure that we get the best out of many players, so the formation is not the solution, but surely a step towards the solution.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Curtinho on Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:07 pm

@Kick wrote:Seems like a waste of Sterling, to me.

Skrtel Sakho Lovren
Manquillo Henderson Gerrard Moreno
Sterling
Balotello Sturridge

Looks better but you really need a better RM.

If we were going to set up that way it would be:

Henderson - Gerrard - Allen/Can - Moreno

But it's not a waste of Sterling to have him on the right anyway. Especially since the wide right and wide left are two of the more important and involved players on the pitch in a 3-5-2. In a 4-4-2 diamond where Sterling is the CAM the attack flows through him more than in a 4-3-3 with a mixed build up -- whereas the 3-5-2 carries more wideplay and would take more advantage of his speed and keep him involved. I don't think I even saw him in the West Ham game until Rodgers moved him out wide -- even his goal I think was cutting in from the right after Balo touched the ball down nicely.

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:El Cuho, 3-5-2 is bad for us and there is nothing like a best formation in football.

Agree to disagree. With the right players the 3-5-2 gives you an advantage in every phase of the play without having to disrupt formation horribly. You need two industrious, pacy outside players that can help give you a number advantage all over the pitch (base 3 - 3 - 2 with two flank players that add to wherever the play is needed creating a 3 (5) - 3 (5) - 2 (4). With guys like Sterling, Henderson, Moreno, Markovic and Can available for those positions (depending on defending, attacking, balanced, etc.) Liverpool is very well set up to play that way. I don't think it will happen, but it would be great if they did.

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by Don't call me James on Wed May 13, 2015 5:54 pm

First I want to say I'm sick and tired of flipping the formation every other week and playing players out of position.

I also don't like 4-3-3. It doesn't fit our players whatsoever now that Suarez isn't here. At least the 3-4-2-1 got the best out of many players in the squad, I did say it wasn't sustainable but we should have at least ended the season with it. It makes no sense why we shelved the formation after losing to United and Arsenal.

I personally think 4-2-3-1 fits our squad the best, except maybe Raheem and any CB who can't play in a back 4.

I don't rate Raheem as a winger or as a wide player (without Suarez). So unless he plays AM (which I feel is his best position), which he shouldn't because Coutinho is better than him there, then it's best if we cash in and gets someone efficient and effective from out wide.

The problem is Rodgers has no clue on how to play it. We've been awful every time we've tried the formation under him with the exception of 2012-13 end of the season where it was ultra lopsided with Henderson wide left playing hybrid CM-LAM but I personally attribute that to Suarez and Sturridge quality opening space for everyone else.

Rafa and Klopp are masters of the formation. Proud  But regardless that's not my point in this thread.

New GK
New RB - Ilori - Sakho - Moreno
Can - Kovacic*
Marquee FW* - Coutinho - Sterling
Marquee ST*

Mignolet
Manquillo - Skrtel - Lovren - Flanagan
Henderson - Lucas
Ibe - Lallana - Markovic
Origi


Sturridge as the ultimate secret weapon. Fill the rest of the squad with talented youngsters Rossiter, Ojo, Yesil, Teixeira, Brannagan, Chirivella, Canos, Wilson, Kent, etc.

Sell everyone else. They are all deadwood and garbage.

So really we need 5 new players for next season and hopefully they are all starters.

Priority wise:
1. Marquee ST
2. Marquee Forward/attacker/wide players.
3. starting box to box CM (hopefully with creativity).
4. RB
5. GK


Honestly Ings and Milner aren't even needed. We're just increasing our deadwood list and putting massive wages on the books.

My ideal/realistic list:
1. Lacazette/Vietto/Higuain
2. Griezmann/KDB/Anderson/Firmino/Herrmann
3. Kovacic
4. DeSciglio
5. Bernd Leno

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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Wed May 13, 2015 7:55 pm

4231 does seem nice. But I think 433 would suit our present squad better:

Mignolet
RWB-Skrtel-Sakho-Moreno
Henderson-Emre
Coutinho
Lallana-ST-Raheem

GK
Manquillo-Ilori-Lovren-Flanagan
Lucas-Allen
Lallana
Ibe-Origi-Markovic
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Re: Tactics and Formations

Post by iftikhar on Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:19 am

I wonder how Milner is going to fit in? The best option seems to me is reverting to 442-diamond:

Mignolet
RWB-Skrtel-Sakho-Moreno
Emre
Henderson-Milner
Coutinho
ST-ST
But this would waste players like Ibe and Markovic who plays from wide areas.

Playing without a DM and a midfield of Henderson, Milner & Coutinho in a 433 would be pure suicide.

Playing a midfield of Emre, Henderson & Milner in a 433 and moving Coutinho on the flanks would be stupid.
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