David Moyes is a Football Genius

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by the xcx on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:12 am


Biggest BS Ive ever seen. United is going to be fine.
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:17 pm

For all his glory, Fergie left United with a terrible squad, not in a good position and I think that counts against his legacy.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Red Alert on Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:57 am

@the xcx wrote:

Biggest BS Ive ever seen. United is going to be fine.

We'll see.  hmm 
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Red Alert on Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:06 am

MJGunner wrote:For all his glory, Fergie left United with a terrible squad, not in a good position and I think that counts against his legacy.

Which is bullshit.

He left a terrible squad? He JUST WON THE LEAGUE WITH THE SAME PLAYERS. One player, yes one, left that group in Scholes.

Moyes is to blame here.

He's responsible for all of those "small" injuries to his squad with his different training regimes.
He's responsible for all the players coming out and being disillusioned at the fact they play for United right now.
He's responsible for signing a 30M BENCH PLAYER in Fellaini when it was quite clear he wasn't needed (Fellaini is NOT A CM OR DM, HES A CAM) when they had THREE superior players in Kagawa, Rooney and Welbeck, yes Welbeck, in that role instead of improving the team.

Moyes is a defensive minded coach AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT SINCE HIS EVERTON DAYS.
The squad he inherited is one of the most adventurous attacking teams in the league, which were defensively stable.
He's turned them into shit both attacking and defending.

This isn't SAFs doing. It's all Moyes. And I love it. Made Everton into a laughing stock, and he's slowly turning United into one too.  Laughing
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Donuts on Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:08 am

Fergie left him a winning squad, and a whole summer to try and buy new players, so not at all his fault.
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:16 am

The squad was terribly average under Fergie and it's just as talented now, Fergie made the difference, how can you not see that? Laughing

And yes, the summer window really matters because everyone is gonna wanna hop on board with David Moyes who's never won anything and is just getting his act together, he had no star pull and that compromised United's strength before the season even started.

If he really wanted to leave Moyes in a good position then he should have moved on the deadwood like Anderson, Young, Valencia, Cleverley etc. and invested in better options in the years preceding his decision to retire. He knew by the end of the season that he had a huge handful of players that were not the type you could build a future around yet he handed them down along with the torch. That's where he went wrong imo.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Busby Babe on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:08 pm

MJGunner wrote:The squad was terribly average under Fergie and it's just as talented now, Fergie made the difference, how can you not see that? Laughing

And yes, the summer window really matters because everyone is gonna wanna hop on board with David Moyes who's never won anything and is just getting his act together, he had no star pull and that compromised United's strength before the season even started.

If he really wanted to leave Moyes in a good position then he should have moved on the deadwood like Anderson, Young, Valencia, Cleverley etc. and invested in better options in the years preceding his decision to retire.
He knew by the end of the season that he had a huge handful of players that were not the type you could build a future around yet he handed them down along with the torch. That's where he went wrong imo.

You're assuming he decided years ago he wanted to retire. He only decided to retire half-way through last season. Anyway, he did invest in nearly every position with a young player whether you doubt their quality or not is another question.

De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Rafael, Fabio, Powell, Zaha, Welbeck etc.

I agree on the deadwood though, he should've got rid of quite a few.
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:13 pm

I doubt their quality because this is virtually the same squad with a different manager so it indicates that the manager was the difference.

And it's still-worse if he decided to retire before clearing out the deadwood, it was always going to be difficult for Moyes to move those players on and attract better ones having just arrived, SAF could have done it much more easily imo. Not to make the transfer window sound as simple as it is in FIFA but that's more or less my point.


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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Busby Babe on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:30 pm

MJGunner wrote:I doubt their quality because this is virtually the same squad with a different manager so it indicates that the manager was the difference.

And it's still-worse if he decided to retire before clearing out the deadwood, it was always going to be difficult for Moyes to move those players on and attract better ones having just arrived, SAF could have done it much more easily imo. Not to make the transfer window sound as simple as it is in FIFA but that's more or less my point.


I agree on the deadwood.

Anyway, we failed to attract a lot of players when SAF was around. Moyes has to be his on man at  some point, he's going to have to go through a transfer window on his own. Moyes' targets in the summer wouldn't have came even if SAF was manager. Fabregas didn't reject us because Moyes was our manager, neither was it the reason Thiago rejected us (although he denies we wanted him at all) or any other (Spanish) midfielder Moyes wanted. The problem with the summer is that Moyes' targets were always out of reach, he was looking at the wrong players.

Also, I think most Man Utd fans agree our squad is not good enough to be first, we just disagree it should be 7th.
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:01 pm

Agree, United are underachieving and a lot of that is on the players themselves, half of them don't realize the weight of the badge on their chests, incidentally.

I know Fellaini texting on the bench was just a single moment in a long weary season but I think that says a lot about how the players aren't taking things seriously enough.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by El Chelsea Fuerte on Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:41 am

Man Utd were so confident in him that they gave him 6 years...Fergie possibly just ruined all the hard work he has done over the past 25 years

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Lex on Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:53 am

Finally won a game :bow:

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Red Alert on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:32 am

MJGunner wrote:The squad was terribly average under Fergie and it's just as talented now, Fergie made the difference, how can you not see that? Laughing

And yes, the summer window really matters because everyone is gonna wanna hop on board with David Moyes who's never won anything and is just getting his act together, he had no star pull and that compromised United's strength before the season even started.

If he really wanted to leave Moyes in a good position then he should have moved on the deadwood like Anderson, Young, Valencia, Cleverley etc. and invested in better options in the years preceding his decision to retire. He knew by the end of the season that he had a huge handful of players that were not the type you could build a future around yet he handed them down along with the torch. That's where he went wrong imo.

Terribly average? Really?

They could of won the league in 2011/12, they lost it in literally the last kick of the PL campaign that season!!! and won it 2012/13 and now they're automatically an average team? Please.

It's not SAFs fault that Moyes doesn't know how to coach an attacking minded team.
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:35 am

Yes they could have under SAF.

Pick out any player that would make it into the squads of Chelsea, City, Arsenal besides Rooney and van persie.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Red Alert on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:40 am

Who cares? lol

You only need 2-3 world class / quality players to win the league anyway. The rest of the squad just need to play a role. You don't need a full starting XI of WC players to win it.

The problem is, majority of the United players are underperforming because of Moyes. That doesn't mean they lack quality, that means they can't play to the "get the ball down the flanks and cross it" tactic that they rinse and repeat and fail time and time again.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:44 am

You have exactly two talented players Laughing

That's my point. We're both in agreement that there's no discussion that the rest of your squad is well below the aforementioned teams meaning they aren't above average like those teams. They are average. It would take an incredibly charismatic and brilliant coach to get results out of those players. One a lot like SAF.

hmm

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Red Alert on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:00 am

They have arguably the best defence in the league. Well, had.
Arguably the best keeper in the league. One of the best midfielders in the league in Carrick. And they have Rooney + RvP.

They have a lot more than just "2 talented" players.

You don't turn average overnight. It's clearly a tactical problem that's hindering the players performances. They're not average. They're just playing average. And that's on Moyes.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Shed on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:01 am

MJGunner wrote:It would take an incredibly charismatic and brilliant coach to get results out of those players.


Laughable. Are you saying having won the title at a canter last season with virtually the same squad, they can now be expected to do no better than mid-table?


Borderline ludicrous.


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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:06 am

I'm not repeating myself shed so no, suffice it to say I've already covered that point.

Wouldn't go as far as to call their defense and keeper the best in the league. Again, look at the teams I've mentioned and ignore your position. Tell me how the likes of Rafael, Evra, Valencia, Young and co. Would fare trying to get into those lineups. Fergie got more out of those players than was actually there.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by B-Mac on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:02 am

MJGunner wrote:You have exactly two talented players Laughing

That's my point. We're both in agreement that there's no discussion that the rest of your squad is well below the aforementioned teams meaning they aren't above average like those teams. They are average. It would take an incredibly charismatic and brilliant coach to get results out of those players. One a lot like SAF.

hmm

De Gea??
Rafael??
Vidic??

arguably some of the top players at there positions in the league

Kagawa?

pls go "2 talented players"
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:55 am

After the question I posed you're going to talk to me about Kagawa and Rafael? Laughing

Really, tell me players other than Rooney and van Persie who'd make it into those squads, the only ones who are even arguable are Carrick and De Gea. That says it all about the squad. SAF was an exceptional manager, he did exceptional things with a squad that overachieved because of their manager.

And now they've lost their belief, I'm not sure how all the blame can be put on Moyes when you have players going out there looking like they'd rather be at home, and texting on the bench? Moyes surely has to punish that but it just shows the level of apathy some of the squad has too.

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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Busby Babe on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:14 pm

@Red Alert wrote:
The problem is, majority of the United players are underperforming because of Moyes. That doesn't mean they lack quality, that means they can't play to the "get the ball down the flanks and cross it" tactic that they rinse and repeat and fail time and time again.

This :bow:
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by B-Mac on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:13 pm

MJGunner wrote:After the question I posed you're going to talk to me about Kagawa and Rafael? Laughing

Really, tell me players other than Rooney and van Persie who'd make it into those squads, the only ones who are even arguable are Carrick and De Gea. That says it all about the squad. SAF was an exceptional manager, he did exceptional things with a squad that overachieved because of their manager.  

And now they've lost their belief, I'm not sure how all the blame can be put on Moyes when you have players going out there looking like they'd rather be at home, and texting on the bench? Moyes surely has to punish that but it just shows the level of apathy some of the squad has too.

Kagawa would walk into every prem squad besides Arsenal probably.....he just happens to be stuck behind the best #10 in the world at this point :coffee:

Rafael would bench Sagna so get real
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by Glory on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:21 pm

MJGunner wrote:Yes they could have under SAF.

Pick out any player that would make it into the squads of Chelsea, City, Arsenal besides Rooney and van persie.

Agree with Chelsea and City. they have like 11 world beaters in every position. But Arsenal ??? You kidding right ? ozil is wc, ramsey and wilshere are slowly getting there. but who else ? giroud rofl

rafael, carrick, evans, kagawa, de gea are quality. They can easily make into big teams.
rest of the lot are all bad here. no united stuff.
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Re: David Moyes is a Football Genius

Post by MJ on Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:26 pm

Don't honestly tell me you'd pick Rafael over Sagna, Evans over Mertesacker/Koscielny, Evra/Buttner over Gibbs, Valencia over Walcott, Young over Cazorla?

World class is such a watered down term, when I say world class, I mean that they could be in contention to be in the best XI in the world, I don't mean Hazard, Navas, Cazorla or other very good players. But that's the thing, your squad isn't made up of the same type of players as the current top 4.

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