Arsenal vs Liverpool

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:25 pm

This is a massive kick in the balls for Skrtel (and I might add that it is well deserved). I'm sure he'll pick up his game to be in contention for City match.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Art Morte on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:34 pm

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:This is a massive kick in the balls for Skrtel (and I might add that it is well deserved). I'm sure he'll pick up his game to be in contention for City match.

I don't think he has done that much wrong to deserve to be broken up from his partnership with Agger. Rodgers is having a knee-jerk on the Oldham game, that's all.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Art Morte on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:43 pm

Henderson's chance affraid

Arsenal have been ridiculous in defence but do look like scoring. If Hendo had made it 0 - 2 to us it would have been so much better.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Helmer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:47 pm

i guess i remember swansea playing against arseanl from last season

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Nishankly on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:42 pm

Glad with a point, Next game please.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Art Morte on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:43 pm

FT 2 - 2

Well, the game promised more when Henderson made it quite brilliantly 0 - 2 to us, but a draw isn't a bad result from a game where Arsenal looked more dominant overall.

Two things about Suarez and our formation, what do you think about these:

1) He defended well when playing left-wing... but I couldn't help thinking our best player on the ball should be playing higher up the pitch. It was weird seeing him defending so much on the flank. And formation wise, Sturridge was totally isolated up front. Would 4-4-1-1 have been better?

2) Suarez looked knackered when he was moved to the lone striker role when Enrique replaced Sturridge. Usually he chases after every ball and passing line, now he was just jogging about there. I really think Rodgers should have given him a rest in the Oldham game.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by RedOranje on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:49 pm

Having only seen the last 10 minutes or so I can't comment on the first point but the second is spot on, Art. That said, hindsight is always 20/20.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Nishankly on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:52 pm

We are always shit at defending set pieces, They almost scored from every free kick or corner.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:14 pm

CARRA was massive. GTFI What a legend :bow: At this rate I don't see him getting dropped.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:15 pm

Also I'm quite sad now because we lost a two goal advantage but if I was given this scoreline at the beginning of the match I would've taken it.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by stevieg8 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:16 pm

@Art Morte wrote:FT 2 - 2

Well, the game promised more when Henderson made it quite brilliantly 0 - 2 to us, but a draw isn't a bad result from a game where Arsenal looked more dominant overall.

Two things about Suarez and our formation, what do you think about these:

1) He defended well when playing left-wing... but I couldn't help thinking our best player on the ball should be playing higher up the pitch. It was weird seeing him defending so much on the flank. And formation wise, Sturridge was totally isolated up front. Would 4-4-1-1 have been better?

2) Suarez looked knackered when he was moved to the lone striker role when Enrique replaced Sturridge. Usually he chases after every ball and passing line, now he was just jogging about there. I really think Rodgers should have given him a rest in the Oldham game.

Agree with you wholeheartedly on every point. Thought Sturridge should've been left on at the end there, and other changes should've been made as well... we needed to try and take some control of the game. Maybe put in a midfielder instead of Enrique up front and try and control a little more, sub off downing instead, anything to try and hold onto the ball a little bit.

Regardless, happy with a point. e only have Man City and Chelsea left to play from the big teams iirc, and we've been doing well taking care of business with lower sides, so the run out from here shouldn't be too bad. Drawing was an acceptable result.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:19 pm

Yeah Luis was drained after defending all game. I felt Rodgers took a very defensive approach for this game and just wanted to hit Arsenal on the counter. 1st we were brilliant though in every aspect :bow:

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by urbaNRoots on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:27 pm

Very well played Liverpool.

Wish we had a captain like Gerrard Sad
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Arquitescu on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:29 pm

Hardly any positive to take out of this match except Henderson and Carragher proving that he hides youth serum in his jock.

Fact is Liverpool went completely against Rodger's philosophy in dominating games by keeping possession, playing the ball patiently rather then sitting deep without any pressing, and pressure and hoping for Gerrard and Suarez to pull of a magical counter-attack. We let Arsenal into the game by continually absorbing their pressure and not using it against them. I know Arsenal might have won in the counter but I sure as f**k rather lose attacking rather than draw while cowering of Arsenal's attack. Taking Enrique out for Sturridge proved that Rodger's back down instead of taking it too them. Why was Downing still on? Well aside from producing absolutely nil in attack he is there to help track back and assist a very meek raw Andre Wisdom.

Kudos to Arsenal for the comeback but not surprising given that Liverpool are the Roma of England and love to squander leads. If Giroud could actually finish open chances then it would have been 3-2. Forget pride, we were outplayed once again by Arsenal throughout the majority of the game. despite capitalizing well on their blunders. What makes it even worse is Arteta wasn't playing so we didn't have the tenacity to even dominate vs an inept Aarron Ramsey being their regista.

Guys like StevieG8 and Nishy look at this from a far more positive perspective since they are so incredibly used to us squandering 2 goal leads, unfortunately for me it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth followed by that deep and sickening feeling within the pit of your stomach. We Basque's don't know how to lose. When we do, we cry like pussies.

My post in the GL thread I want to expand upon. Truth is this wouldn't have been so incredibly disappointing if we had convincingly beaten a top 10 team (bar Everton). So far we have shown to dominate incredibly vs smaller teams yet lose that focus and know-how to take midfield battle upon the superior teams. Our game plan sometimes is too focused on the opposition and what they are doing as under pressure we always seem to abandon our patient possession play in favour for a direct (and rather mindless) counter attack. It would work if the line actually pushed up in a higher line with the midfielders doing more than just tracking the oncoming opposition. As unpredictable as we are there just is no balance to our gameplan at times during the most crucial moments. The team needs to work better under pressure. Give me all the possession stats you want but the fact is we have possesed the bulk of it within the defensive line if not a little further into the Lucas/Allen zone as ahead of that our composure goes to shit and transcends into a psuedo counter attack relying heavily on bits of individual brilliance.

Which is why it was just hard to find any positives bar from some of the individuals themselves such as Henderson, Carra, Pepe etc. One step forwards and two step back? Certainly not as our progress is undeniable. Yet key mistakes and lapses have continued to be ignored along with the overall lack of conviction, cohesion and confidence in our play.


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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Art Morte on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:52 pm

@ Arq

I agree with you partially. It was a little optimistic to go with the 4-3-3 to this game. We were never able to impose our style in that formation onto Arsenal. I thought we defended well in our defensive 3rd both in the centre and in the flanks, but it resulted in Sturridge and later on Suarez to be left completely on their own up front. We didn't have almost any meaningful possession-pressure on Arsenal in their own half.

And yes, the fact remains that we haven't beaten any big teams this season.

But it wasn't a hopeless performance and we got the draw. Some good individual displays. The bottom line is that it's not a demoralising result like the some we've had this season and we can go into the City match thinking we can improve a little from this game and get a result from Manchester too. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by RealGunner on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:03 pm

Good game guys. Defending aside (mainly our side) it was a quality game of football. Thumbs up

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Arquitescu on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:04 pm

@Art Morte wrote:@ Arq

I agree with you partially. It was a little optimistic to go with the 4-3-3 to this game. We were never able to impose our style in that formation onto Arsenal. I thought we defended well in our defensive 3rd both in the centre and in the flanks, but it resulted in Sturridge and later on Suarez to be left completely on their own up front. We didn't have almost any meaningful possession-pressure on Arsenal in their own half.

And yes, the fact remains that we haven't beaten any big teams this season.

But it wasn't a hopeless performance and we got the draw. Some good individual displays. The bottom line is that it's not a demoralising result like the some we've had this season and we can go into the City match thinking we can improve a little from this game and get a result from Manchester too. Fingers crossed.

You and I have resonated on many of the same macro-thoughts throughout the season I see. Fact is we can only take positives out of the individual performances but as a whole it was a performance without any balls. Yes defensively the line had many heroics along with Reina. Yet Art, what bothers me is how often chances are/were created towards our team as relying on last ditch tackles, nerves of steel from Reina and cutting it close with the referee is just not impressing me. I'm not calling for any ones head but you know what I really really miss from last season? and its not just Kenny. Its the complete disparity between the defensive tactics we had last season and the shoddy ones we have now. Difference is we had Steve Clarke directing that while under Rodger's (who I refuse to blame) we have his unknown crew from Swansea who weren't exactly known to compile a mean defence.

Winning at the Etihad is more important then ever. Today wasn't saving a point, it was losing 3 points. Forget drawing, vs City is a must win.


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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:18 pm

btw how fecking great was Agger today :bow: Our first half defense could compete for CL. We were finally defending as a unit :bow:

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:20 pm

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:btw how fecking great was Agger today :bow: Our first half defense could compete for CL. We were finally defending as a unit :bow:

ehm, you need to stop fan-boyism.

agger was at fault for their first goal.

he did great otherwise though.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:23 pm

Harry Redknapp wrote:
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:btw how fecking great was Agger today :bow: Our first half defense could compete for CL. We were finally defending as a unit :bow:

ehm, you need to stop fan-boyism.

agger was at fault for their first goal.

he did great otherwise though.

Which is why I specifically said first half. Second half left a lot to be desired by.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Helmer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:24 pm

absolutely, had the first goal not in for them, we could have walked away with three points...but sometimes agger tried to show our midfielders how to run ahead with the ball but overall he had a good game!!!!

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by Helmer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:35 pm

i agree that sometimes we cant defend good as a unit specially compared to last season but i must say we are getting better as a unit week by week.

there is certainly progress as I could see that with so much calmness many times we took the ball further out of defence line, we are certainly getting there, although there is huge scope of improvement here also.

instead of sub sturridge, we could hav sub downing bringing suarez on the right probably. Sturridge was able to hold the ball better today and could win free kicks couple of times. And I am really glad that now we have such a player.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by RedOranje on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:40 pm

It's always frustrating to drop points after having a 2 goal lead, but a draw at Emirates is not a bad result.

I'm only just watching the game, but our performance in the first half was very different from the one against Norwich, despite having the same team out there. We looked like we planned to play on the counter and we did it well for the first 45 minutes or so. I'd say its encouraging to see that Rodgers can adapt his tactics from the start and that the players, despite being the same line-up, can also adapt the style to Rodgers' demands on the pitch.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:55 pm

It's also to note, that after sunday's game at Etihad we have 13 games left.

only 5 of those 13 games are against the current top 10, all of 5 are at home. (chelsea, spurs, everton, swansea, west brom)

and we are the best side in the league outside of manchester clubs in beating the bottom 10 side according to stats this season.

there is more to this ride this season. fasten your seatbelts.

one thing for sure though, I think we now know the exact 2 priority summer signings.

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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by donttreadonred on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:15 am

@RedOranje wrote:It's always frustrating to drop points after having a 2 goal lead, but a draw at Emirates is not a bad result.

I'm only just watching the game, but our performance in the first half was very different from the one against Norwich, despite having the same team out there. We looked like we planned to play on the counter and we did it well for the first 45 minutes or so. I'd say its encouraging to see that Rodgers can adapt his tactics from the start and that the players, despite being the same line-up, can also adapt the style to Rodgers' demands on the pitch.
Shocked I didn't see this first. Promise.

The set-up did look to be more conservative than original assumed by the lineup. That's not to say we went to park the bus and get out with a draw. It looked as though we planned to cede possession and take the chances offered to us. Rodgers would have known that Arsenal's defense give teams chances (much like we would early in the season). The plann seemed to be to remain organized and wait for a chance to pounce. Though admittedly un-stereotypically Rodgers, the plan worked. We did precisely that... twice. By that measure, the tactic worked.

The problem in the second half appeared to me to be a lack of a good outlet. Sturridge looked gassed from the 55th minute on and really needed to be subbed. Suarez had spent so much time tracking Sagna (to almost put him in a LM position at times) that he was uncharacteristically subdued, too. Because of this, our hold up play was lacking, and we were unable to keep possession long enough to build many real chances. If you noticed, the majority of our attacks came from classic counterattacking moves.

At this point, I was screaming for Borini to come on. This is a situation tailor made for the young Italian. Enrique was a necessary sub to counteract the Walcott/Sagna duo that was gaining a foothold, but Borini could've replace Suarez/Wisdom (putting Enrique and Glenjo at fullback). We desperately in need of someone to chase clearances and force the defensive line deeper. Then again, any move we made, besides a straight swap with Suarez, would've somewhat compromised our defensive shape.

In the end we took a point from the Emirates, and that's not a bad result. It's sure not the one we all pictured when Henderson's shot hit the back of the net, but a good result nonetheless. I did actually take positives from this match. At several points this season, Rodgers's perceived rigidity has been used as a stick to beat him with, as has his perceived worship of the "tiki-taka" philosophy. If any game proves our tactical flexibility, this one did. In truth, over the past few weeks, we've been adapting and changing on a match-to-match basis. Here we set up to play on the counter-attack, and it worked to great effect in the first 60 minutes. It may not have been outright domination, but it was effective.

In any case, Sepi's stat is very interesting. After Sunday, we have 5 against teams above us (chelsea, spurs, everton, swansea, west brom, all of which are at home) and 8 against teams below us. There's certainly something to be said for being a flat track bully. It's expected that you beat the teams below you. From there we can build, but beating those teams is a must. It's something we simply could do in last season's run-in. If we can continue to get good results against the teams we "should" beat, we won't see the second-half decline that ultimately cost King Kenny his job.


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Re: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Post by worms on Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:30 pm

Dominated in the air again.

Agger is rubbish in the air,never tight to his man and he's not physically imposing.Needs to bulk up a bit IMO,just look at him when he is standing next to Giroud.Look how much more built Giroud is.Agger is very slim for a CB.

If he needs to he should start holding on his opposition players shirts at set pieces,play dirty if you have to because he is currently a liability.

I never feel confident at set pieces any more or against a team with a big physical striker.

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