Re: Sara carbonero depreciation thread

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 4:53 pm

What did Iker say before being benched or after... point to one newspaper article quoting Iker as saying anything negative towards Mou. I dare you.

In fact, after the benching, iker specifically came out saying that he's not bigger than the club, that everyone should support the manager and that he need to fight to get his job back.

The only dirty politics here are from Mou and he got a nice dose of it back. It's so bad that he gets booed at every home game and rarely walk out of the protected area because people yell insults at him. He's hated and deservedly so.

My only point is that Mou played hard politics and, thus, should not whine or complain when he's being challenged with hard politics. He wants to be unquestioned and unopposed.... wrong club for that. You earn respect and love. You don't get it automatically. You can also lose it very quickly if you misbehave.

by Zealous Mon May 06, 2013 4:54 pm

izzy wrote:
sportsczy wrote:If Iker was benched for Lopez... no problem. Fair game as there's a a good argument that Lopez could be better (and has been). When Ramos was benched for Varane... again, not a problem. There's was a sporting reason to it.

But there's absolutely zero sporting reason for Iker to get benched in favor of Adan. Not one. You guys do realize that Iker was benched for Adan and not Lopez initially, right?

All politically driven for the exact reason that Mamad mentioned.

AGAIN, IKER WAS BENCHED FOR ADAN, NOT LOPEZ!

So what you're saying is, because a footballer and coach got involved with the politics of the club and instead of focusing on what they're paid to do, it led to this nonsense?

Benching Iker for Adan was a disgrace, no doubt about it, but why was Iker in a position to get benched?

2 reasons:
Politics
Performance
Both in which he was not performing great in to say the least.

Exactly, in the game of thrones you win of you die. Iker had two options call a truce with Mou and put the team first or start playing well and deny Jose any excuse to bench him, he did neither.

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 4:56 pm

Iker is the one whose reputation looks like champ here because he's remained class throughout. Mou is the one who is getting kicked out of the country and whose name is being dragged in the mud.

Supposed Madrid fans too here. Sheesh.

by izzy Mon May 06, 2013 4:59 pm

sportsczy wrote:What did Iker say before being benched or after... point to one newspaper article quoting Iker as saying anything negative towards Mou. I dare you.

In fact, after the benching, iker specifically came out saying that he's not bigger than the club, that everyone should support the manager and that he need to fight to get his job back.

The only dirty politics here are from Mou and he got a nice dose of it back. It's so bad that he gets booed at every home game and rarely walk out of the protected area because people yell insults at him. He's hated and deservedly so.

My only point is that Mou played hard politics and, thus, should not whine or complain when he's being challenged with hard politics. He wants to be unquestioned and unopposed.... wrong club for that. You earn respect and love. You don't get it automatically. You can also lose it very quickly if you misbehave.

Sports, we agree with you. The problem is, we have seen many in-house fights at the club and Iker has still performed at a high level regardless of all the crap going on at the club.

Why was this year different?
I happen to believe his mind was focused on other things instead of football.

I'm gladly giving him a pass as he rightfully deserves it, but i'm not going to sit here and act like i'm not disappointed in what the hell went down at this club. I'm not going to sit here and just say, "All Mou's fault."
I just don't believe that.

by Zealous Mon May 06, 2013 5:01 pm

sportsczy wrote:What did Iker say before being benched or after... point to one newspaper article quoting Iker as saying anything negative towards Mou. I dare you.

Iker's smart and besides his journalist friends will throw mud at Mourinho for him (Lord knows Mourinho was making himself an easy target though). He'll just sit on the bench looking pretty when the cameras focus on him every time Lopez concedes a goal

sportsczy wrote:In fact, after the benching, iker specifically came out saying that he's not bigger than the club, that everyone should support the manager and that he need to fight to get his job back.

That's great but by that time Lopez was already a clear starter anyway.

sportsczy wrote:The only dirty politics here are from Mou and he got a nice dose of it back. It's so bad that he gets booed at every home game and rarely walk out of the protected area because people yell insults at him. He's hated and deservedly so.

My only point is that Mou played hard politics and, thus, should not whine or complain when he's being challenged with hard politics. He wants to be unquestioned and unopposed.... wrong club for that. You earn respect and love. You don't get it automatically. You can also lose it very quickly if you misbehave.

Fair enough, Mou gets what he deserves so let no one say that Zealous took Mourinho's side in all this. Let the record show that some people want Iker to look faultless though.

by Zealous Mon May 06, 2013 5:05 pm

sportsczy wrote:Iker is the one whose reputation looks like champ here because he's remained class throughout. Mou is the one who is getting kicked out of the country and whose name is being dragged in the mud.

Supposed Madrid fans too here. Sheesh.

Please don't give me that, being blindly loyal to Iker =/= being a Madrid fan.

Sanchis wrote an article today saying how D. Lopez is being disrespected in all of this and I agree with him. He's been objectively better than Iker this season, imo he's been far superior. Which begs the question if the manager wasn't at odds with Iker would Lopez have been given a chance to start (despite being better this season)? My money is on no.

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 5:06 pm

Not true Z. Iker made those comments right after he got benched in favor of Adan. Lopez don't come into the picture until 2 months later when Iker broke his hand and we needed a backup keeper.

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 5:10 pm

You guys make it sound like Lopez benched Iker... that's completely false lol. Iker was benched in December for Adan and Lopez didn't enter the picture until January 26th to be exact.

Besides, i'm sure there are better keepers than Buffon in Italy. But does Buffon get benched or thrown aside like he was nothing? No. Juve have a lot more respect than that. They would do it over the summer.

Same thing for Van Der Sar, Schmeichel, etc. Some managers have class and understand that legends are what make a club endure in people's minds and hearts. You don't disrespect and tear down legends. You transition them out when the time comes.

Flo is lucky that Iker is handling it the way he is. He could have crucified Flo and Mou within a blink of an eye.

by Pedram Mon May 06, 2013 5:16 pm

Zealous wrote:
sportsczy wrote:What did Iker say before being benched or after... point to one newspaper article quoting Iker as saying anything negative towards Mou. I dare you.

Iker's smart and besides his journalist friends will throw mud at Mourinho for him (Lord knows Mourinho was making himself an easy target though). He'll just sit on the bench looking pretty when the cameras focus on him every time Lopez concedes a goal

This, Iker doesn't need to respond to Mou, he's not going to involve himself in political fights when he has people defending his rights, after all you can't deny his influence in Spain. Iker cares about maintaining a clear public picture because he's a idol in Spain and people look up to him.

by Zealous Mon May 06, 2013 5:19 pm

sportsczy wrote:You guys make it sound like Lopez benched Iker... that's completely false lol. Iker was benched in December for Adan and Lopez didn't enter the picture until January 26th to be exact.

I'm aware of that. Adan totally flubbed his lines and got sent off so Iker became starter again but Iker got injured on the 23rd, Lopez came in on the 26th I have reason to believe that we were in the process of signing Lopez before Iker's injury. Casillas was not playing well this season imo he needed a wake up call. My opinion, shoot me for it if you want but all I know is that when a competent goal keeper was brought in the defence looked much better than the first half of the season.

sportsczy wrote:Besides, i'm sure there are better keepers than Buffon in Italy. But does Buffon get benched or thrown aside like he was nothing? No. Juve have a lot more respect than that. They would do it over the summer.

Same thing for Van Der Sar, Schmeichel, etc. Some managers have class and understand that legends are what make a club endure in people's minds and hearts. You don't disrespect and tear down legends. You transition them out when the time comes.

Flo is lucky that Iker is handling it the way he is. He could have crucified Flo and Mou within a blink of an eye.

That's nice and all but it all begs the question why did Jose decide out of the blue to bench Iker like that? Food for thought. (and don't give the because he's the scum of the earth routine because it was clear Ramos and Jose could put their differences aside)

by izzy Mon May 06, 2013 5:26 pm

See, I have issue with this.

No one is saying we want to slowly transition him out.

It's simple; Iker was benched because of conflict with Mou and performance and I sure as hell want to know why the 2nd point is even a factor when discussing Iker.

Oh, and lo and behold:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2013/05/06/3958944/casillas-has-had-a-tough-time-ramos
He doesn't need to say anything, EVERYONE is on his side.

He'll get a pass and he deserves it but that doesn't mean i'm going to be blind to what transpired this year.

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 5:29 pm

Mou wanted to exert his authority. He had frakked up the locker room so much that he needed to regain his power somehow. Nobody believed his lies anymore. Madrid were going nowhere at the time and nobody could stand Mou. By benching Iker and not getting sacked (Flo showed the pussy that he is), he was able to create an environment of fear... fear that he could ruin people's season by benching them without any checks and balances.

He used it as a fear tactic of last resort. Typical Mou. He'd make a perfect dictator in a 3rd world country... he would summarily execute people and rule with absolute power because people would fear similar action.

Of course, who cares about class, dignity and morality. It's Mou.

by izzy Mon May 06, 2013 5:35 pm

Yes, I see now.

Player power FTW.
The nerve of Mou to think as the coach he should have some power over the players.

Typical Madrid season. Things went wrong and we're looking for a new coach again.

Great.

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 5:39 pm

When you think about it, it would make Machiavelli proud.... the club was floundering and going nowhere. The ruler (Mou) had lost the support and respect of his troops. What did he do? He took the most powerful figure on his team and tore him down. Better to rule by fear than not to rule at all.

Of course, Mou sacrificed some of his reputation and is completely reviled now in Spain. But at least, he showed that he has absolutely no remorse. It's all about power and results with him... the rest be damned.

The other solution would have been to get together with Ramos and Iker and settle differences and use them as the pillars to get the season restarted. Maybe the relationship was too long gone for that...

To me though, it's not all about winning. There's a line not to cross. Mou's line is very shady lol.

by Mamad Mon May 06, 2013 5:46 pm

Zealous wrote:
Mamad wrote:Me too sports. i can't believe Madrid fans are actually buying Mou's lies.

I trust Iker as a good person and a legend. he has earned it. but Mou? he is a liar, hypocrite and selfish person.

He benched Iker because Iker wasn't acting like his bitch and he got mad.

actually my respect for Iker has grown even more after what happened this season.

Iker got benched because he was playing badly, D.Lopez has made him look like Adan this season. Iker's a club icon but he hasn't played like one this season.

Who said Iker did good this season? i fully agree he was bad and Lopez has been great.

my problem is the way Mou treats Iker.

by Pedram Mon May 06, 2013 6:06 pm

All i know is that Casillas, in no way, is faultless and don't tell me he behaved classy so he's innocent, you can make a case for Casillas intentionally not performing to his best because he believes Mou is a disgraceful human being and has no right to tell him what to do.

Casillas and Mou both have huge egos and can't stand each other because of their differences so these problems was always going to happen, but you can't tell one side is absolutely faultless while the other must shoulder all the blames.

by chad4401 Mon May 06, 2013 6:09 pm

tbh Iker was pretty bad this season and rightly lost his spot, even if it was to Adan, he just needed to be bench mou could have handled it better but then again who knows how iker would react if he knew before hand? the same probably

Iker is a legend but he should not be above the club or on the same level, i can honestly say imo that iker wasn't giving it is all in games or training or being leader, obviously he knows he is untouchable at the clubs so im not buying into iker being all classy in the media, that just his role to be the good guy so even tho mou is gone im glad he brought iker back to reality that he can be benched by the likes of adan if he performs that awful again but now he has lopez to worry about

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 6:38 pm

Why Iker in December? Di Maria, Ramos, Arbeloa, Pepe, Ozil, Higuain and Benzema were all just as bad if not worse. The entire team sucked for the first half of the season. How come those guys all got chance after chance and Iker was benched for Adan?

by Doc Mon May 06, 2013 8:46 pm

I reckon they got chance after chance because I assume those aforementioned gents actually tried to show the manager that they are worth picking in the 1st team. I mean, if we can assume Iker did no wrong, I think I can safely assume that right?! No?! Blast...

Anyway, Iker and Mourinho played politics and neither came out as a winner. Iker got benched by Adan and then Lopez and Mourinho is on his soap box talking about what he did, what he didn't do and whatever useless nonsense that he calls "facts".

I stick to my thinking that both are at fault with Jose taking more blame. Oh and backing Iker =/= being a Real Madrid fan. That is Raulista logic and we all know how that turned out...

by Zealous Mon May 06, 2013 8:48 pm

sportsczy wrote:Why Iker in December? Di Maria, Ramos, Arbeloa, Pepe, Ozil, Higuain and Benzema were all just as bad if not worse. The entire team sucked for the first half of the season. How come those guys all got chance after chance and Iker was benched for Adan?

All of them were benched at one time or another.

by alexander mahone Mon May 06, 2013 9:10 pm

sportsczy wrote:Why Iker in December? Di Maria, Ramos, Arbeloa, Pepe, Ozil, Higuain and Benzema were all just as bad if not worse. The entire team sucked for the first half of the season. How come those guys all got chance after chance and Iker was benched for Adan?

Until December, apart from Ramos, Pepe, Alonso, and Ronaldo, I don't think any of the usual starters got preferable treatment than Casillas in any way. Even Ramos was benched once. But I do feel Pepe, Alonso, & Ronaldo were pretty much always got a pass from Mou, though that's not the case anymore with Pepe & Alonso nowadays.

But Mou was definitely always pretty harsh to the rest. Di Maria was benched for a good while for Modric & Callejon of all people, and sometimes pulled out at half time when thing didn't go well. Arbeola despite still starting because we're lacking option was often got substituted rather early and Mou usually never substituted defender unless the game was over early so that's saying a lot. Khedira also had few games where he's pulled out at half time and it never happened last season, but like Arbeola he's still a default starter because we're lacking option. Until October Ozil was pretty much riding the bench and only when he started had good games in that month he finally got his regular time. And we know Benzema and Higuain were benched for each other even until now.

It's not like Casillas was benched permanently by Adan in December, he still got his starts too, so I don't see that Mou didn't give a chance at all to him to turn around his performance. Casillas was just unlucky with his injury, just like Pepe and Marcelo to some extent.

by chad4401 Mon May 06, 2013 9:26 pm

sportsczy wrote:Why Iker in December? Di Maria, Ramos, Arbeloa, Pepe, Ozil, Higuain and Benzema were all just as bad if not worse. The entire team sucked for the first half of the season. How come those guys all got chance after chance and Iker was benched for Adan?

iker sucked since the beginning of this season, just making a bunch of mistakes match after match looking like he could careless tbh

on the rest of the team bad planning by mou is the reason a lot of the under performers couldn't be dropped, at least for some length of time, i mean we have seen how awful the non starters XI can be mou just couldn't bench everyone no depth, but as zea said they all got a taste of the bench some played better and some just still stayed the same

iker and mou thing just end up getting to personal than necessary, but it takes 2 to take it to that level, for example mou almost turned benzema into laughing stock with the cat and dog line, there was no outrage, no players sticking up, media liked it(the ones i have seen) everyone went a long with it expect flo, zidane and valdano, don't get me wrong benzema is no legend like iker, but he had every right to lash out since it was still very disrespectful the treatment he was receiving regardless of the circumstances, the guy was literally crying on the pitch every time he missed, he man up played brilliantly and made mou look like a douche in trying to take credit as it was tough love. when he was really trying to get benz to leave

in the end when iker was playing awful, he should have man up admit to himself at least that he needed to do better but he opt to be a douche as well, remember mou and co campaigning for ron to win ballon d'or, iker went out of his way to say his vote is going to ramos why? cause he wanted to be as much a douche as mou

by Le Samourai Mon May 06, 2013 10:08 pm

Iker was probably,,,,childish. But the power aspect - I don't see it. We love him here, he's just about the biggest legend in the history of Spanish football...he has some degree of power. What has he done with it? He forced Mourinhio out. Give me a break - Mou forced Mou out - he never wanted in to begin with.

But back to Iker. What did he do this season? What did you want him to do?. Someone explain it to me. He's on the bench - people are going to talk...what's he going to do? What's he going to say?

"I'm absolutely ecstatic to be on the bench".

Kept quiet in the press....didn't do everything right - didn't particularly make an attempt to repair the relationship , or an attempt to shut up the media (like that's possible). Here, more than anywhere else you handle your stuff internally, the media smells blood and they bite.

Mourinhio started and finished this thing - Iker just sat and let it play out. Which you can have an issue with. But he's not using his power to do anything. If that's a crime - fair enough.

by sportsczy Mon May 06, 2013 10:30 pm

Iker said his vote would go to Ramos because, in fact, he wanted to vote for either Iniesta or Xavi but couldn't do it because of the real madrid v barca thing. The best he could do was make his vote irrelevant if he couldn't vote for the person he wanted.

Pretty good way to do it for me.

Iker never said that he didn't deserve to be benched or that either Adan or Lopez were unworthy. He just didn't react at all... didn't use his power to help the situation or make it worse. I wouldn't have either. If you're going to use me as a scapegoat... then by gawd let's see how you're going to pull it off lol. In the end, the donkey hat went to Mou while Iker sat there chillin like a gangsta while Mou is leaving town with his tail between his legs.

by FennecFox7 Tue May 07, 2013 12:49 am

Can't agree with sports or sam. You can't fanboy iker for his legend status. A coach is a coach. He leads the team.. like it or not, you don't do things like he did. Mou hasn't covered himself in glory with some of his acts

Only thing i agree with is the stuff right now. mou is just carrying it on now.. its shameful

by Cyborg Tue May 07, 2013 3:00 am

Zealous, you are not going to convince sport to agree with you. because he is not looking at both sides here.

my point was that we cant forget that iker leaked info to his girlfriend and allowed her to go to the media and confirm that there has been fights.

and way before this happened mourinho said that there was someone in the dressing room that was not on his side and giving the media info, thats why he crucified that journalist when the info about the goal keeping coach came out.

mourinho is the same person in front the scene as well as behind the scene. iker on the other hand doesnt displays any public negativity. which i think is good but people let that image fool them into think he is beyond wrongdoing.

no player should be bigger than the manager. thats the reason why real madrid was so poor when raul was at his highest politically. thats why spain never won till he was out.

the thing with mourinho is that he want the team to believe in him, thats his coaching style allowing all the players to come together for him. you have to be with him. ramos got the memo, he had problems with mourinho but had the sense to put the team first. why didnt casillas?

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