Valencia vs FC Barcelona

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:37 am

@messixaviesta wrote:Xavi's pass to Alves was probably the best moment of the entire game and the pity is it didn't result in a goal.

What are the things I am reading about Jordi Roura? Isn't this the guy someone here had recommended even before Tito Vilanova when Pep was departing? Or I am mixing the name with someone else? Anyway is he so unqualified that he can't even be an assistant coach for us?

I dont remember if he was linked before Tito, but he is qualified to be an assistant I guess. He is experience in that role anyway.

But right now, he is more than that, he is in charge it seems and to this point, I can see why his only job before this at a top man, ended badly.

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by Valkyrja on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:46 am

@messixaviesta wrote:
likeastar wrote:IMO it's not only about the tactics, in 2008-2010 Xavi was way better than he is now. The team suffers because everything goes through Messi(sth that every team knows), and this are Tito's/Pep's(2010-12) instructions.(take a look at some matches, especially 2009 UCL final and see how Henry/Eto'o played) Alves is past it, so is Puyol, Villa too and Pedro is inferior to 32y.o Henry in every possible way.

1. Xavi was better then - He's still a master but he can't cover as much ground as fast as he used to do then on a consistent basis and yes that does make a difference I would say

2. Everything goes through Messi - I say this happened more last season and this season we have improved in this aspect

3. Alves is past it - Hard to agree with this. If a player comes from an injury break and then plays the way he played in the Classico I say he's top quality still and has a lot more to offer

4. Puyol is past it - He is obviously nearing retirement but he can still have his Tarzan moments and is perhaps a better bet for us than Mascherano at the moment

5. Villa is past it - It would make more sense to comment on this if and when he gets to play on a consistent basis which may not be for Barca.

1. I've said that he is still the best CM in the world

2. IMO that's because he was better last season. Still the best player in the world but not as good as in 2011-12... (the best Messi was in 2009-2011 but that's my opinion)

3. He clearly isn't the same player he was in the last seasons. Still top 2 RB, but not as good as he used to be.

4. An ocasional starter, I'd start him in every big game, when you need his leadership, and he can still beast. The guy has heart for the game.

5. Not half the player he used to be... because the injury, but he is old now, 31 is quite old for a striker. But his finishing is great, and his intelligent runs remained unchanged. Still better than all your FW bar Messi.

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by alexjanosik on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:36 pm

@billy_gr wrote:on the messi issue... you win some you loose some.
The guy doesn't miss a minute the whole season.
I would like him to press more but let's be realistic. he has only so much stamina.
on the other hand imagine if we had Alexis in his place. Yes we would press more efficiently, but...

Dont buy the he doesnt have stamina issue.With the way he walks around the whole game,he can play a game probably every day and still not get tired.He was injury prone before,4 years ago.Now he is perfectly fine.So that excuse doesnt work.
Other players also play a lot of minutes.Xavi plays almost as much as he does.At the age of 33,with chronic imjury problems if he can put in so much effort,then why cant our superstar?

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by free_cat on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:24 am

He isn't injury prone because he runs little. What xavi does at his age its not a factor, every person is different.
Messi commitment can't be doubted and I'm inclined to label your criticism as blasphemy. Very Happy

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by billy_gr on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:17 am

Let’s not go that far…
I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. I understand Alex’ frustration but what’s the alternative?
We have the world’s greatest goalscorer and one of the most creative players on the field right now with Messi.
Would you bench him with a more energetic player who would help our pressing game and loose all the goals, assists, key passes etc?
For me what definitely needs fixing is the wingers’ contribution to attacking play.
As most of the guys here already said, Messi looks up to pass and sees no one most of the time
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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:34 am

likeastar wrote:
1. I've said that he is still the best CM in the world

2. IMO that's because he was better last season. Still the best player in the world but not as good as in 2011-12... (the best Messi was in 2009-2011 but that's my opinion)

3. He clearly isn't the same player he was in the last seasons. Still top 2 RB, but not as good as he used to be.

4. An ocasional starter, I'd start him in every big game, when you need his leadership, and he can still beast. The guy has heart for the game.

5. Not half the player he used to be... because the injury, but he is old now, 31 is quite old for a striker. But his finishing is great, and his intelligent runs remained unchanged. Still better than all your FW bar Messi.

Fair enough.

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:51 am

@The Franchise wrote:
I dont think its true. I think people only remember the bad ones...but if you actually go look at all the names, I bet it would be about 1 third good, 1 third bad and 1 third decent. I would also bet that is comparable to many other teams.

Hmm dani. Let's try making a list from 2009 summer onwards.


Song - Meaningless ( Not too expensive but a transfer that contributes nothing )

Alba - Good

Fabregas - Average ( A top player but causes tactical problems in our team and even future prospects wise not everyone is convinced )

Sanchez - Hopeless ( Even God can't save his Barca career )

Mascherano - Average ( Gives us cover in defense but we could have bought better and is often found wanting in big games )

Villa - Average/Good ( A top player who we could use more but ultimately we got only a little more than half an excellent season for that kind of price from him )

Afellay - Meaningless ( Yes there was that one UCL moment but that was the sum total of his entire career with us )

Adriano - Good ( For a low price we got a really good utility player who can play various positions and do really well in some of them )

Keirrison - Meaningless

Chygsy - Hopeless

Ibrahimovic - Bad/Average ( A top player who had a really good first half but was then deemed a misfit and considering the price almost everyone will say this was a bad one )


Did I miss anyone? So overall the picture looks quite bleak. There are a few decent ones as you said but its the expensive ones that have largely gone wrong. Look at the summer before that which was our last great transfer window - Dani Alves and Gerard Pique in one window. Now that was hitting a jackpot and since then we have not even been anywhere in the vicinity.


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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by The Franchise on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:06 am

Lets do from Pep onwards, I think that is a better starting point. In my opinion

Good

Adriano
Tello (We actually signed him back)
Dani Alves
Villa
Pique
Alba
Maxwell


Bad

Alexis
Ibra
Mascherano
Keirrison
Chgyrnskiy
Henrique
Hleb
Caceres


Somewhere in the middle.

Keita
Afellay
Song
Cesc
Pinto



7 good, 8 bad, 5 in the middle. Which to me is about what I said no?




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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:42 am

1. I realized a few minutes later that I had missed Maxwell. For me he will go under bad or average at most because even though he was cheap he was unable to play up to our standard at least in the way we played him and was responsible for a few costly moments.

2. If you include the summer of 2008 then the picture does look similar to what you said but it was that summer that was particularly strong and since then its been downhill.

3. I didn't know Tello was signed back.

4. Villa for me would go under average only for the reasons I stated earlier.

5. I didn't remember when Pinto was signed either.

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by messixaviesta on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:46 am

BTW Alexis Sanchez's case I find quite perplexing. For a player who was bought for such a steep price, who came with so much hype and whose signing greatly excited none less than experts like you and mole to have gone so far downhill is quite a surprise and certainly not of the pleasant kind.

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:50 am

Not sure whether I'd qualify Ibra and Masche as bad. Ibra was a hard to deal with personality and deteriorated into the last stretch of the season, but it really wasn't his fault Messi was moved towards the center and he was still crucial in many games for us (clasico comes to mind) even as a CL flop. When taking his price into account then clearly it was a failure, but purely from a performance side he was more "in between" than completely bad. At this time last season we were all raving about Masche's form, and while he flopped in the big games, we shouldn't let a mostly fantastic season be tarnished by that either. I'd also move him from fail to in-between.

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Re: Valencia vs FC Barcelona

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