Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

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Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Red Alert on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:25 am

I've been asking myself that question for a while now. It is no doubt this may sound "knee-jerk" after the match against City but the game against City triggered me to make this thread. He's turned into an "English" keeper since Roy was appointed. He improved his game of attacking the ball in the air and holding the ball BUT he has decreased in doing his job and that is keeping the ball out of the net. He also mis-times A LOT of his runs and when to run out. There is no doubt he's one of the best 'sweeper-keepers' in the world but he does far too many mistakes these days. It is true he is influential in the dressing room but he's completely losing his dominance on the pitch. I really do feel if we had another keeper (Brad Jones is the perfect no. 2; should never be the main keeper atm) we'd be sitting in the top four. He's simply not the same!

The performances from our defence has also been shocking but they're showing they can adapt to this style of play. They're showing improvements that they can do better and be a part of the future of this club. Reina has shown no progress what so ever of him finding the same form under Benitez.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Art Morte on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:31 am

I think it's come to a point where almost no fan would be angry if Reina was sold. What's worth keeping in mind, though, is that goalkeepers can be difficult to sell.

Personally I'll wait until the end of season to answer the thread's question.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by fatman123 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:17 am

ynwa wrote:Reina has shown no progress what so ever of him finding the same form under Benitez.

Then instead of selling Reina why not just bring back Rafa? :I'munoriginal:;

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Art Morte on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:16 pm

@fatman123 wrote:
ynwa wrote:Reina has shown no progress what so ever of him finding the same form under Benitez.

Then instead of selling Reina why not just bring back Rafa? :I'munoriginal:;

A straight swap between Reina and Cech, what say you? :coffee:
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Arquitescu on Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:01 pm

Absolutely not.

-Yes he is nowhere near the world class shot stopper that he once was and yes he has been making howlers that would make David James blush but it hasn't been enough for us to dispose of Pepe all to quickly now.

-Our criticism of him spurns from what he expect from him. We expect him to save balls that him, at his best usually would save. We expect him to have those once calm nerves of steel that he usually possesses. Unfortunately, these days we also expect him to single-handedly save our game no matter what the shot.

-Fact is, his mistakes will be incredibly scrutinized while rightly so since his mistakes have a strong element of tangibility to it, its not enough for us to abandon him.

-Since coming back Reina has been a solid pair of hands and lest we forget, his command of the back line, improved aerial presence and calm under the strongest of shots has been vital for us whether we know it or not.

-He is our big game goalkeeper. His mistakes usually result against the smallest teams in the least moments we expect it. That problem spurns from his poor overall concentration and lapses within them. We cannot forget the element of composure he gives our back line.

-Is there anyone (bar the very few unattainable exceptions) that has such skill and composure on the ball as he does? How many times do we see him out manoeuvre and forthcoming striker with his feet? Its one of his trademarks that we do not appreciate enough. How about his distribution which despite his occasional infuriating and nonsensical long balls, is among the finest within the Goalkeepers of Europe.

-Problem is that that the series of errors (resulting from the error vs Arsenal in Hodgson's first game) has instilled an element of doubt within his game as you can see he isn't as confident when approaching saves with that past authority as he used to. The staff and teammates need to assist him in eliminating these doubts and lapses of his.

He is only 30, a fantastic leader within our locker room, still has years on him and if worked on mentally, will be back to his best and I am sure.

We need to keep faith in him.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by stevieg8 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:50 pm

Yes if a suitable replacement is possible. We don't have anyone to bring in immediately, and if we're not moving up a step in quality immediately, I see no reason for it.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Motogp69 on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:28 am

This should of been done 2 years ago, but personally I don't think Liverpool can afford to lose leaders in the locker room at this point in the Brendan Rogers project.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Kick on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:49 am

Buy Valdes when he lives Barca, we sell Barca Cech and Promote Courtois. Everybody wins cheers

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:04 am

I think people have to understand that Reina have actually looked much better since his return from injury than he did in the past 2/3 years. He actually looked decent up until that howler.

I personally want us to buy a young, up and coming gk, and just loan him out until Reina is well and truly done. I still believe Pepe can offer another decent 5 years or so. Although he needs to shed some pounds and work for his position.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Art Morte on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:16 am

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:I think people have to understand that Reina have actually looked much better since his return from injury than he did in the past 2/3 years. He actually looked decent up until that howler.

I don't remember seeing world-class saves from him this season. I don't think he's saved us that many points.

But this whole question comes down to who could we get to replace him and where could we sell Reina. Most top clubs already have a 'keeper whose position is undisputed in the team, they won't be interested in him. Unless Barcelona really come knocking, I don't see which club would make an offer for Reina.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:53 am

I think we should all forget about making a profit on Reina at this point. In fact forget selling him all together. Give him a lower contract if he wants to stay after his current one expires and let him groom some other young gk we hopefully purchase. He's still the world best goalkeeper with his feet, and our system requires a goalkeeper to be that sharp on their feet. He's only 30 and in goalkeeper years that the new 21. I think dropping a few pounds will do him a world of good.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by iftikhar on Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:01 pm

Have ANY of our young GKs shown ANY sign that they can replace Reina in 2-3 years!!! As I have said before Jones is purely back-up (and not replacement) quality.

Problem with Reina is that we are neither in a position to buy a similar quality GK nor there is any team in need (and able to afford) of a similar quality GK.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:15 pm

Gulacsi is very underrated imo. But I don't think he'll reach WC potential. He'll be in the same fold as the likes of Tim Krul and Mignolet. That's about it, the rest of the young gks are scrubs as far the eye could see.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Red Alert on Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:45 am

We expect him to do his job and that is to not let goals leak in. He's not even in the top 5 PL keepers anymore yet people go on about him still being of the best in his position...

He is a leader, there's no denying that but he's been a shadow of himself for 3 years now. How can you expect a leader to continue to be inconsistent week in week out. You can't. Or you're basically just giving every player the right to have a bad game...
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by donttreadonred on Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:31 pm

The concern for me with selling Reina isn't necessarily a drop in performance. Being completely honest, I think his performances are easily replaceable, and we could likely make the move, save wages, and even recoup a transfer fee if we find a buyer in the right situation. The problem is the loss of yet another vocal leader in defense.

We've seen the effect that having (and not having) vocal leaders in defense has on the overall defensive performance of the team. Rodgers already pulled a somewhat under-performing Skrtel (our former Player of the Season) for a 35 year-old, vocal leader. Moreover, it seems to have worked a treat so far...

Should Reina leave, a younger keeper would certainly be the replacement, removing one more personality and one more organizing force at the back. With Carragher retiring, the onus would squarely be on Agger's shoulders to marshal the backline. While I believe he's capable of stepping into that role, he's not done too much to inspire confidence in his organizational leadership this season.

There's a term used in other sports to describe the qualities a player brings to a team beyond pure skill and tactical nous: "intangibles". At the moment, Reina's intangibles may out weigh his spotty form. That's a very tough decision for a manager to make and to justify to people outside of the club. Right now, I would say that the leadership he brings outweighs the potential benefits of a new keeper. However, it's hard to judge what effect new additions and another 6 months of development could bring to the defense.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Red Alert on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:29 am

That's a good point but do we need that extra little experience at the back?

Skrtel, Agger and Johnson surely don't. Enrique is hardly incompetent.

Carragher has basically came in for a knee-jerk reaction from BR from the Oldham game where Skrtel was apparently responsible for the likes of Wisdom, Robinson, Coates AND Jones mistakes and inexperience...
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by RedOranje on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:06 pm

You've completely missed the point he's making there, mate.

Even an experienced backline needs a vocal leader to organize it throughtout a game. Experience generally helps one become such a leader but in our case the fullbacks are forward too often to do so and Skrtwl simply doesn't fit the role. As mentioned, Agger could potentially step up but he's needed assistance so far this season. Since Carra returned (which happened BEFORE the Oldham game) the defense has looked much more organized and confident.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Art Morte on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:22 pm

The last few goals we've conceded have got nothing to do with leadership, though. Our second conceded goal against City was a lack of Reina's vocal leadership if anything.

I'd be perfectly happy to have, say, a Sczcesny as our goalkeeper, but at least in the British market I see few suitable replacements, so unless Reina is really poor from now till May, I'd prefer to keep him.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by RedOranje on Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:44 pm

The last few goals were unrelated to leadership... and scored when Carra was on the pitch helping marshall the defense... the goals before his return though...

The second goal poor decisionmaking, not leadership. Had Reina run into Skrtel then it would be a leadership/communication issue, but Reina made it perfectly clear that Skrtel was to back off and cover behind him as he closed down Aguero. Plenty of leadership, just poor choice.

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:05 am

My thoughtful post match analysis are in the other thread, I feel I need some sort of closure for this game as well with a little rant against Reina. (although he wasn't the only one to blame in this match).

The second goal vs. West Brom went f*cking through Reina :facepalm: He's lost any sense of goalkeeping ffs. I understand that we should never have been caught out so badly in the first place and Agger was to blame for the large portion of that for horrid defending on Lukaku, but the shot was straight at Reina ffs. I was laughing at us when we conceded that goal. I saw the funny side of it. Last week I defended Reina (sort of) but he keeps making these shite mistakes. Wee really do need a new keeper.

Top priorities for the summer and we all know it: GK, CB, LB


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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Red Alert on Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:13 am

Priorities are GK, ST (a number 9) and Eriksen. :coffee:

MAYBE a CB depending if one is available.
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Red Alert on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:35 pm

Bump.

Get Eriksen in and declare me as Rodgers ffs. Proud
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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:04 pm

McAgger wrote:My thoughtful post match analysis are in the other thread, I feel I need some sort of closure for this game as well with a little rant against Reina. (although he wasn't the only one to blame in this match).

The second goal vs. West Brom went f*cking through Reina 🤦He's lost any sense of goalkeeping ffs. I understand that we should never have been caught out so badly in the first place and Agger was to blame for the large portion of that for horrid defending on Lukaku, but the shot was straight at Reina ffs. I was laughing at us when we conceded that goal. I saw the funny side of it. Last week I defended Reina (sort of) but he keeps making these shite mistakes. Wee really do need a new keeper.

Top priorities for the summer and we all know it: GK, CB, LB


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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by TheRedStag on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:20 am

Yes. How many years on his contract? Will we get much for him next summer?

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Re: Is it time we part-ways with Reina?

Post by RedOranje on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:29 am

His contract with Liverpool runs until the summer of 2016, so there's still significant time on his deal.

Any sales price next summer will depend mainly on how he performs at Napoli this season, but regardless it will be more than LFC would get if he spent the season on the bench at Anfield.

I still think his personality and leadership will be missed this season, but I can understand why the decision was made. And a loan move is still rather different from a sale. If Mignolet fails to bed well we could potentially see Reina back in the season after next (assuming he can get over his hurt feelings at the club dealing with club business without informing him at every step along the way).

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