Arsenal Tactics

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Don't call me James on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:33 pm

Venga loves Ramsey. Can't see him not starting when 100%.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:34 pm

Meh, one of him/Thei/Ox is gonna pull their hammy again sooner or later anyway.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by urbaNRoots on Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:28 pm

Examining Arsenal’s defensive flaws from @LGAmbrose

http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/11/27/examining-arsenals-defensive-flaws/

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Jay29 on Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:28 pm

Structure is the magic word here. The linked article about our possession play is very good as well as it illustrates this point.

It's why I said that even after signing Mustafi, Xhaka and Lucas and strengthening our problem positions we won't be successful. Tactically we're an inferior team to Chelsea, City and Liverpool. I'd argue Spurs are a better team than we are as well, but don't have the same quality in their squad.

You can watch any Arsenal game and see numerous instances of Alexis and Ozil pressing alone, and then turning back and wondering where the hell the rest of the team is. Sometimes the frontline and midfield press well together but our backline stays where it is so there's a gap between midfield and defence. I've yet to see a game where we've pressed cohesively.

Our lack of compactness is a massive problem as well and you could see it in the PSG and United games. Mid-table teams and even relegation teams come to the Emirates and make it difficult for us to work the ball into dangerous areas, but you wouldn't trust us to go to a big ground and do the same. That 2-0 at City a couple years back was remarkable because it was the one time we actually did it.

And of course, that leads to our issues with the ball and why its hard work to break teams down. We're an instinctive team without structure, which means the patterns of our play will change depending on who's playing. It'll work for some games and we'll look great (the 3-0 against Chelsea, for example) but it also means being totally reliant on the players for every game and it's impossible for players to be good for all 40-50 games in a season. Our "freestyle" way of playing is also easily countered by a solid, compact team or a team that presses well.

So this is how we'll take the next step. We have enough talent in the squad to accumulate around 70 points every year, but to win the league and go deep into Europe we need to be better coached than we are.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:38 pm

a.k.a Wenger out.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Da Gunner on Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:56 am

Have been going through his thread for sometime and wanted to get the opinion of fellow posters for some scenarios.

1/ I raved about the lack of structure in one thread and see it has been also been done here. Is it to do with the formation or with the coaching? If it is the coaching, is there some formation/tactics which can overcome the coaching deficiencies and provide us more structure.

2/ The flavor of this season, 3 at the back. We seem to have the personnel to do it ( 4 decent CBs and one LB who has played CB). It can hide our defensive frailties(Kostafi when one of them has those bummer games). We can use Monreal as the third CB to hide his weaknesses to some extent as well and probably give more freedom to Belle who loves to attack. But I believe our midfield will be a muddle. Any opinions on the same?

3/ Chambo as the second choice RB. We seem to have poor second choice RBs and there is a dearth of good quality "affordable" RBs in the market. Chambo has good physique, pace and crossing. He has poor composure, so I'd want him to be delivering crosses from outside than trying to finish them. For anyone who feels whether he'll be able to defend, I have two words for you: Antonio Valencia.

4/ What is our Plan B? We only seem to have a Plan B for attack. What about different formation/tactics. We seem to have decent depth and a good tactician. I'd love if we tried diamond, 4-4-2 or 3 at the back.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Jay29 on Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:57 pm

1/ I raved about the lack of structure in one thread and see it has been also been done here. Is it to do with the formation or with the coaching? If it is the coaching, is there some formation/tactics which can overcome the coaching deficiencies and provide us more structure.

It's the coaching. Structure is something that achieved through drills on the training field and analysis. There's no formation that can compensate for a lack of it, because if you tell your players to go out and play where they want that's what they'll do, regardless of the formation they're supposed to be playing.

2/ The flavor of this season, 3 at the back. We seem to have the personnel to do it ( 4 decent CBs and one LB who has played CB). It can hide our defensive frailties(Kostafi when one of them has those bummer games). We can use Monreal as the third CB to hide his weaknesses to some extent as well and probably give more freedom to Belle who loves to attack. But I believe our midfield will be a muddle. Any opinions on the same?

Well, it surely isn't coincidental that a lot of managers who favour a possession approach are using three at the back with more regularity. Pep at City, Sampaoli at Sevilla, Sarri at Napoli, Lopetgui at Spain and Low at Germany all use it. The additional centre back makes it easier to create overloads and play around a press, while attackers can play off a striker without the burden of having to track back.

I'm not sure we have the quality at wing back to make it work, though. Bellerin is fantastic, but I wouldn't trust Gibbs or Monreal for the left wing back spot. As far as the midfield goes, we'd up losing one of Iwobi or Walcott in favour of the extra centre back, which comes with its own set of pros and cons, while our two CMs would need to excellent athletes as well as intelligent.

It's an interesting option but not one I see Wenger trying, ever.

3/ Chambo as the second choice RB. We seem to have poor second choice RBs and there is a dearth of good quality "affordable" RBs in the market. Chambo has good physique, pace and crossing. He has poor composure, so I'd want him to be delivering crosses from outside than trying to finish them. For anyone who feels whether he'll be able to defend, I have two words for you: Antonio Valencia.

Full back is where failed wingers go to play. I'm not convinced he'd be happy with it, though. As a winger he has a chance for game time against Iwobi, who's young, and Walcott, who's slightly injury prone. At right back he wouldn't have a hope against Bellerin.

4/ What is our Plan B? We only seem to have a Plan B for attack. What about different formation/tactics. We seem to have decent depth and a good tactician. I'd love if we tried diamond, 4-4-2 or 3 at the back.

There isn't one. It's 4-2-3-1 or die.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Da Gunner on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:58 pm

@Jay29 wrote:
Well, it surely isn't coincidental that a lot of managers who favour a possession approach are using three at the back with more regularity. Pep at City, Sampaoli at Sevilla, Sarri at Napoli, Lopetgui at Spain and Low at Germany all use it. The additional centre back makes it easier to create overloads and play around a press, while attackers can play off a striker without the burden of having to track back.

I'm not sure we have the quality at wing back to make it work, though. Bellerin is fantastic, but I wouldn't trust Gibbs or Monreal for the left wing back spot. As far as the midfield goes, we'd up losing one of Iwobi or Walcott in favour of the extra centre back, which comes with its own set of pros and cons, while our two CMs would need to excellent athletes as well as intelligent.

It's an interesting option but not one I see Wenger trying, ever.

We can probably play Monreal as one of the CBs and TBH, I don't think he should be at Arsenal, at least as first choice next season. That said, I agree with the latter two points about sacrificing Theo/Iwobi(one of the two bright spots yesterday) and the CM conundrum. We don't have the best mid/attack to support three at the back. We would need a Kante type tireless midfielder in the middle. Ramsey is tireless but it is sad he's more interested in doing all those fancy tricks and flicks.

Though I'm an avid AW fanboy, I'm fine with a new managers such as Loew, only in hope that they'll bring this tactical flexibility. Being a fan of Germany has let me see how tactically flexible Loew's teams are.


Full back is where failed wingers go to play. I'm not convinced he'd be happy with it, though. As a winger he has a chance for game time against Iwobi, who's young, and Walcott, who's slightly injury prone. At right back he wouldn't have a hope against Bellerin.

Maybe not make him as a permanent RB, maybe he can fill in at RB at times when the wingers are on form?

I know I'm clutching at straws coz playing in the wings and defence, can/will be detrimental to his already slow development, but I desperately want to keep both Joel as well as Chambo. The former coz he's a hard worker and the latter coz something tells me if we sold him to a PL team, he'll regularly score/assist against us.

There isn't one. It's 4-2-3-1 or die.

This makes me sad. For all the squad depth and AW at helm, we suck with tactics and formations. If Plan A was too good, I can understand AW refusing to infuse new stuff but we know the formation has lots of chinks and its the players with their individual capabilities saving the day for us.

Not even false positives to feel happy as an Arsenal fan. Lemme go back to watching 2003/4 season on YouTube.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by El Gunner on Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:15 pm

You should try to post more, Da Gunner

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:02 pm

@Da Gunner wrote:
For all the squad depth and AW at helm, we suck with tactics and formations. If Plan A was too good, I can understand AW refusing to infuse new stuff but we know the formation has lots of chinks and its the players with their individual capabilities saving the day for us.


And yet you are an AW fanboy? Why? Because of everything he has accomplished in the past?

Anyway, you should post more often. Enjoyed reading your posts today. Thumbs up

Btw, Löw only just extended for Deutschland. Anyway, I am not convinced if he'll make a successful transition from NT to club football - they are two very different animals.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by urbaNRoots on Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:37 pm

@Sri wrote:
@Da Gunner wrote:
For all the squad depth and AW at helm, we suck with tactics and formations. If Plan A was too good, I can understand AW refusing to infuse new stuff but we know the formation has lots of chinks and its the players with their individual capabilities saving the day for us.


And yet you are an AW fanboy? Why? Because of everything he has accomplished in the past?

Anyway, you should post more often. Enjoyed reading your posts today. Thumbs up

Btw, Löw only just extended for Deutschland. Anyway, I am not convinced if he'll make a successful transition from NT to club football - they are two very different animals.


If anyone could do the transition, I truly believe Löw could do it. Very tactical and smart manager from what I can tell from his press conferences and we have all seen how Germany play.

But as you said Löw has extended, that ship has sailed. What are some other options for us in case Wenger decides to quit.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Da Gunner on Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:39 pm

@Sri wrote:
And yet you are an AW fanboy? Why? Because of everything he has accomplished in the past?

Btw, Löw only just extended for Deutschland. Anyway, I am not convinced if he'll make a successful transition from NT to club football - they are two very different animals.


I'm one hardcore AW fanboy and started following Arsenal more seriously after becoming impressed by AW, his loyalty and principles :hides face:

Though we may have lot of harsh opinions about AW now, Arsenal is Arsenal now only coz of AW.

Ok, maybe not Loew but some who is tactically flexible with some track record of managing semi-big teams and player ego. (That rules you out, Eddie Howe)

@Sri wrote:Anyway, you should post more often. Enjoyed reading your posts today. Thumbs up
@El Gunner wrote:You should try to post more, Da Gunner


Gee, thanks!
It is just that I'm incredibly lazy to put thoughts into words. Yesterday was the tipping point and I wanted to rant, the result of which is in the Soton thread.

And special thanks to El Gunner! He was the first one to welcome me and I thought he was a mod. This section seems too friendly IMO Very Happy

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm

Lets keep it that way Wink

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by El Gunner on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:09 pm

No probz, Da Gunner. Take it one simple step at a time. Like I also said before try and venture out to the general section and the Hub, before you know it, posting on here will just be a part of your daily routine Laughing

@RG, ahem, it seems that I have mod potential *wink, wink*


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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:26 pm

I suspect a multi-account ban incoming. hmm
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Jay29 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:46 am

Posted in the matchthread for the City game, but it's relevant here as well.

http://news.arseblog.com/2016/12/man-city-2-1-arsenal-total-domination-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=autotwitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

So this season Arsenal have been trying to improve as a counter attacking team. Wenger wanted us to be more of a threat on the counter after Leicester showed what the benefits were of that approach. Hence the signing of Lucas and the interest in Vardy.

As part of that, our defensive approach has been altered to concede more of the ball and draw the opposition out to make counters more viable. However, the numbers are showing that this approach is backfiring.

We're giving up more shots in prime areas than last season. Last season we forced 50% of opposition shows to outside the area - this season that figure has dropped to 37%. So we're conceding more shots in our 18 yard box. Last season only 21% of opposition shots were in prime areas - this season it's 31%.

More shots in prime areas = more big chances. We conceded 35 big chances all of last, but this season that figure is already at 27.

Not only that, we're not blocking these shots. Last year we blocked 3.4 shots per game, but this year it's only 2.5.

Looking at these numbers, we can see that we've been dropping deeper into our 18 yard box, but haven't defended the 18 yard box well at all. That we haven't conceded that many goals this season completely misrepresents the quality of our defending. The feeling we had gotten lucky in games this season wasn't misplaced at all. If the opposition had taken their chances we would have been no where the top of the table.

It's likely as well that this method of defending is contributing to our poor ball retention and lack of attacking quality as well.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by RealGunner on Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:33 am

Interesting read

https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/-394hXdpVkKzXS7wQ_0AhQ/Show/Fully-fit-Wilshere-capable-of-filling-Cazorla-void-at-Arsenal
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

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