Arsenal Tactics

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by DuringTheWar on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:48 pm

I hoped we would have signed players before now and see what sort of shape we will play in pre season. If Gustavo signs I hope

--------------Gustavo
-------wilshere---------ramsey
Walcott-------------cazorla


Or if staying with a two in midfield I'd like

------Gustavo----wilshere
Walcott-----rosicky---cazorla

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Chumlum on Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Those are strong midfields, Diego. I could get behind them. I don't think Arteta is going to be automatically benched though - he has been Arsenal's most reliable central/deeper midfielder the past two seasons. He's a natural leader, he's the de facto captain, he organizes well, and the squad has played better with him in it since 2011. The fact that he isn't a "natural" or "world-class" DM as some point out takes nothing away from the fact that he's been very important for Arsenal so far in his tenure.

Assuming Gustavo or a similar player comes in I hope there will be rotation as needed between Ramsey, Arteta, and Gustavo as the two deeper players. Sebastian Perez, if he comes, I think can get some matches in cups and minor league games. Wilshere or the Ox can sometimes do a job as part of a central duo, as well. If necessary. Just my two cents.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:17 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I hoped we would have signed players before now and see what sort of shape we will play in pre season. If Gustavo signs I hope

--------------Gustavo
-------wilshere---------ramsey
Walcott-------------cazorla


Or if staying with a two in midfield I'd like

------Gustavo----wilshere
Walcott-----rosicky---cazorla
I like both formations, although I'm not a fan of Wilshere in a 2-man midfield.

4-3-3 looks beast though... looking at the players we have and we might sign I believe this is how we should look this season:

Szczesny (Fabianski)
Sagna (Jenkinson) - Mertesacker (Sagna) - Koscielny (Vermaelen) - Gibbs (Monreal)
Gustavo? (Arteta)
Wilshere (Rosicky) - Ramsey (Perez?)
Walcott (Oxlade-Chamberlain) - Suarez? (Giroud) - Cazorla (Podolski)

Cazorla with a free role and Gibbs overlaping... sexy isn't it? drunken

We need a DM and striker (signing Perez wouldn't be too bad, especially at the quoted price). If we don't sign both it's a failure imo. Of course this squad could always improve for example replacing Fabianski with Julio Cesar and Vermaelen with Sakho, or signing another RB/CB but that could be adressed next summer and shouldn't be top priority right now.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:41 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:Of course this squad could always improve for example replacing Fabianski with Julio Cesar and Vermaelen with Sakho, or signing another RB/CB but that could be adressed next summer and shouldn't be top priority right now.
It isn't a priority now -> because we spent the entire summer selling deadwood and chasing shadows. These squad deficiencies should have been addressed this summer. We are wafer thin, especially in defense. I don't understand how AW claims to have 2 players for each position after accounting for player versatility (Sagna as a 4th CB - for example). When you don't have 22 quality players, and a few more for rotation, you are always an injury away from ending the season with the same feeling of 'we were just a player short'.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:48 pm

What quality player would want to be 4th choice and only play if two other CB's are injured though? Usually the 4th CB is a good youngster, we have none atm but we have Sagna who can fill in if needed. I don't really think it's such a big deal, hell even Gustavo (if we sign him) can play there... that's 6 options for 3 positions.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Jay29 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:56 pm

I really like the idea of Gustavo, Ramsey and Wilshere as a trio set-up in a 1-2 as opposed to a 2-1. Gustavo brings some athleticism to our midfield and is more likely to stay back in his position, so it'd allow Ramsey to go forward more.

Ramsey can continue his box-to-box role and help out defensively if need be, while Wilshere can focus almost entirely on going forward and making things happen. Wilshere can open up spaces and turn defence into attack quickly with his dribbling (like Rosicky does), while Ramsey can freely move into positions where he can play the final pass.

It'd be a tactically flexible trio, too, as it could easily switch to a 2-1 when defending.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Chumlum on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:02 pm

srigooner wrote:These squad deficiencies should have been addressed this summer. We are wafer thin, especially in defense. I don't understand how AW claims to have 2 players for each position after accounting for player versatility (Sagna as a 4th CB - for example).
I agree with your first points - but AW hasn't pulled out the line of 2 in each position this summer, has he? He even admitted to the press recently that the squad is "a little bit thin." Which in typically understated Wengerese means, "Yes, we definitely need more bodies." Here's to hoping.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by DuringTheWar on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:04 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:
Diego Armando Maradona wrote:I hoped we would have signed players before now and see what sort of shape we will play in pre season. If Gustavo signs I hope

--------------Gustavo
-------wilshere---------ramsey
Walcott-------------cazorla


Or if staying with a two in midfield I'd like

------Gustavo----wilshere
Walcott-----rosicky---cazorla
I like both formations, although I'm not a fan of Wilshere in a 2-man midfield.

4-3-3 looks beast though... looking at the players we have and we might sign I believe this is how we should look this season:

Szczesny (Fabianski)
Sagna (Jenkinson) - Mertesacker (Sagna) - Koscielny (Vermaelen) - Gibbs (Monreal)
Gustavo? (Arteta)
Wilshere (Rosicky) - Ramsey (Perez?)
Walcott (Oxlade-Chamberlain) - Suarez? (Giroud) - Cazorla (Podolski)

Cazorla with a free role and Gibbs overlaping... sexy isn't it? drunken

We need a DM and striker (signing Perez wouldn't be too bad, especially at the quoted price). If we don't sign both it's a failure imo. Of course this squad could always improve for example replacing Fabianski with Julio Cesar and Vermaelen with Sakho, or signing another RB/CB but that could be adressed next summer and shouldn't be top priority right now.
I liked wilshere in a 2 man midfield in 2011, before his injury, he looked good there at times last year as well but wasn't suited to playing beside arteta. Next to Gustavo and with a pre season completed I'd hope he can return to 2010 11 form, but there is always a chance he might need another year like Ramsey did.... I hope that isn't the case though.

Anyway yeah I like the prospect of 4-3-3 as well

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by DuringTheWar on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:09 pm

Chumlum wrote:Those are strong midfields, Diego. I could get behind them. I don't think Arteta is going to be automatically benched though - he has been Arsenal's most reliable central/deeper midfielder the past two seasons. He's a natural leader, he's the de facto captain, he organizes well, and the squad has played better with him in it since 2011. The fact that he isn't a "natural" or "world-class" DM as some point out takes nothing away from the fact that he's been very important for Arsenal so far in his tenure.

Assuming Gustavo or a similar player comes in I hope there will be rotation as needed between Ramsey, Arteta, and Gustavo as the two deeper players. Sebastian Perez, if he comes, I think can get some matches in cups and minor league games. Wilshere or the Ox can sometimes do a job as part of a central duo, as well. If necessary. Just my two cents.
Arteta has been very important the last two years, and I'm very appreciative of how much he's helped us. But his importance was due more to how weak our options were, players sold, injured, or out of form left him as our rock in midfield. Admittedly it would be harsh to just take him out the team altogether, but against the better teams though I don't think he's our best option anymore if we sign Gustavo

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:11 pm

Chumlum wrote:
srigooner wrote:These squad deficiencies should have been addressed this summer. We are wafer thin, especially in defense. I don't understand how AW claims to have 2 players for each position after accounting for player versatility (Sagna as a 4th CB - for example).
I agree with your first points - but AW hasn't pulled out the line of 2 in each position this summer, has he? He even admitted to the press recently that the squad is "a little bit thin." Which in typically understated Wengerese means, "Yes, we definitely need more bodies." Here's to hoping.
Actually, I'm afraid of seeing that in a press conference one month hence.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Chumlum on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:14 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:
Arteta has been very important the last two years, and I'm very appreciative of how much he's helped us. But his importance was due more to how weak our options were, players sold, injured, or out of form left him as our rock in midfield. Admittedly it would be harsh to just take him out the team altogether, but against the better teams though I don't think he's our best option anymore if we sign Gustavo
Yeah, fair enough - I'd agree with that. Particularly if Gustavo were to settle down well and the young midfielders keep improving.

srigooner wrote:
Chumlum wrote:
srigooner wrote:These squad deficiencies should have been addressed this summer. We are wafer thin, especially in defense. I don't understand how AW claims to have 2 players for each position after accounting for player versatility (Sagna as a 4th CB - for example).
I agree with your first points - but AW hasn't pulled out the line of 2 in each position this summer, has he? He even admitted to the press recently that the squad is "a little bit thin." Which in typically understated Wengerese means, "Yes, we definitely need more bodies." Here's to hoping.
Actually, I'm afraid of seeing that in a press conference one month hence.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Highburied on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:11 am

Finding the best possible midfield will be decisive this season.

I dont know how Wenger is gonna manage Ramsey, Arteta, Wilshere, Cazorla and Özil, Flamini and Rosicky.


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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by El Gunner on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:02 pm

KennethCole wrote:Finding the best possible midfield will be decisive this season.

I dont know how Wenger is gonna manage Ramsey, Arteta, Wilshere, Cazorla and Özil, Flamini and Rosicky.


Well right now the midfield is picking itself.

If everybody is fit, it'll be interesting to see what Wenger does. Will he bring Arteta straight back into team? If he does, in who's place - will Ramsey get dropped or Wilshere? It'll be stupid to drop Ramsey right now when he is in the form of his life and improving game-by-game. So if Arteta comes back, I'd start rotating him with Wilshere in and out of the team. At least until we find the perfect balance (best working midfield). As we discussed in another thread when Wilshere's in the team it doesn't look like the midfield is that balanced.

But with that said, I should also state that its better to have these problems than having playing the same midfield twice per week.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by El Gunner on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:08 pm

As for Cazorla, I think when he comes back he'll be playing outwide on the left. Whether that's his best position is arguable. I maintain that his best position is right behind the striker, but we all know who is the best player for that position.

Personally, I think Özil and Cazorla can rotate position's during the game. I've seen Özil take up that LW/LF position at times for Germany, so he's no stranger to that. Plus the inter-changing of positions will also cause the opposition a few more problems.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Highburied on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:13 pm

El Gunner wrote:As for Cazorla, I think when he comes back he'll be playing outwide on the left. Whether that's his best position is arguable. I maintain that his best position is right behind the striker, but we all know who is the best player for that position.

Personally, I think Özil and Cazorla can rotate position's during the game. I've seen Özil take up that LW/LF position at times for Germany, so he's no stranger to that. Plus the inter-changing of positions will also cause the opposition a few more problems.
I totally agree on your second paragraph.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by silver on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:35 pm

Arteta has got a lot more defensive awareness, is more willing to sit back and dictate from deep, experienced and has the ability to control the tempo of the game. For me, he's undroppable and in the first team when fit.

Arteta-Ramsey is our most balanced midfield two as they showed at the end of last season with Ozil and Cazorla just ahead of them.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by lenear1030 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:20 pm

KennethCole wrote:Finding the best possible midfield will be decisive this season.

I dont know how Wenger is gonna manage Ramsey, Arteta, Wilshere, Cazorla and Özil, Flamini and Rosicky.


These are the problems we need to have.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by juventus101 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:14 pm

When you have a fully healthy squad, would this work?

--GK--
-- D   E   F   E   N   S  E --
--Wilshere-- --Arteta-- --Ramsey--
--Ozil-- --Cazorla--
--Podolski--

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Sri on Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:19 pm

juventus101 wrote:When you have a fully healthy squad, would this work?

--GK--
-- D   E   F   E   N   S  E --
--Wilshere-- --Arteta-- --Ramsey--
--Ozil-- --Cazorla--
--Podolski--
Doubt it would work in the PL.. I think that lacks width..
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:10 pm

So if everyone is fit, who would you say would get into your best line up?

I can't for the life of me see space for all of Arteta, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Cazorla, Rocisky in the starting line up.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by urbaNRoots on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:17 pm

Szczesny
Sagna Mertesacker Koscielny Gibbs
Arteta/Flamini Ramsey/Wilshere
Walcott Özil Cazorla
Giroud

We have good depth in the centre midfield lol based on form/fitness one of Arteta/Flamini and one of Ramsey/Wilshere starts

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:50 pm

Well that's what I wanted to actually figure out. It's obvious who the back and front 4 will be. But the two CM positions are the interesting bit. If everyone was fit, would you say your best line up is with Wilshere on the bench? There is also the possibility of going with both Ramsey and Wilshere but I would think it would be detrimental to start both of them as there won't be enough defensive stability in the midfield.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by DuringTheWar on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:11 pm

I was just thinking about this in the long term. Wenger builds teams, and he will have the next few years under consideration when he signs a player. With the signing of ozil we have 3 players the right side of 25 (ozil, wilshere, ramsey), I know he rates both ramsey and wilshere extremely highly and most likely they are both in his plans (and he just said today he plans to build around wilshere, which fits with everything hes done/said in the past), and I don't think he will move ozil out of a central position. Imo it points towards a wilshere-ramsey midfield in the future, with ozil in front of them. I thought they did well together this season so far and jack wasn't even fit. It might be a concern against teams that have special players in the attacking midfield positions, other than that its seems fine.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:16 pm

Yeah the double pivot of Wilshere-Ramsey could definitely win you the league if you trounce the bottom 13 teams consistently (that's over 70 points right there) and do well to hold your own against the rest of the big boys. So it's definitely possible, but I don't see it working that well in Europe so someone would have to be sacrificed.

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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Jay29 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:49 pm

For all we know, Wilshere may end up on the left wing in the "Cazorla role" in the long term. I don't believe that to necessarily be his best role right now, but given we actually have depth in the centre of midfield now, he may play there quite often this season.

Our best team when everyone is fit is simply who's performing well at any particular time. On paper, you could say our strongest midfield would be Ramsey-Wilshere-Özil-Cazorla but Flamini is currently performing well, it would be difficult to leave out Arteta's consistency and experience and Rosicky is just a great player who can slot in whenever and perform.

Right now, I think the most likely one to drop out would be Wilshere, if not because his form hasn't been stellar than because Ramsey and Özil are simply undroppable and Cazorla is too good to not be included in the starting line-up.
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

Post by Jay29 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:22 pm

As I say that...

Arsène Wenger believes Jack Wilshere can use his spell on the left flank to rediscover his best form.

The England international has moved position to accommodate Mesut Ozil in the centre of Arsenal's midfield, and Wenger is happy with how Wilshere has adjusted.

The Arsenal manager no longer sees Wilshere as a natural 'No 10' - despite his shirt number - and thinks his new role can help the 21-year-old rediscover his trademark "burst".

"He is getting it back and I think playing on the flanks helps him to find that back, because on the flanks you have to do a lot of that," said Wenger. "Once he will have that back… his performances physically recently are like that.

"Deep-lying midfielder or wide [are his best positions] because higher up he is less comfortable at the moment. He doesn’t like to have his back to goal, he likes to face the game.

"Why? Because he has a burst to pass people with the ball at his feet. From deep he does that very well, he creates the openings for that little burst to run with the ball. He is a physically strong boy, he has a good body. He can win the challenge and make the difference and open the game up."

Wenger cited Aaron Ramsey as an example of a player who can still thrive despite being stationed on the flank, and he thinks Wilshere's natural versatility will help him thrive.

"You ask every good football player and he says to you [he wants to play] ‘in the centre’," said Wenger. "Nobody says I want to play wide, I’ve never heard that.

"But on the other hand I had Nasri, he and Silva they all play wide. It’s not like they are forced to stay out there. Ramsey the other night, he played on the right side and had an outstanding game. Because he is not pinned there, he can move.

"Jack can play basically everywhere. He is an important player for the squad, and he will play. But there is competition for places of course. On one side, people want you to have good players, on the other, that means you cannot give any guarantee to anybody."
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-wide-role-can-help-wilshere
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Re: Arsenal Tactics

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