Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:23 pm

@The Franchise wrote:I feel we are going a little more in depth than needed for my comments.

All I am saying is, at Barca noone would dare say a single bad word about Pep. Not openly. You just cant and have no reason to, the way he wants his football is how everyone is happy with.

There are not former players coming and saying anything even remotely negative and I dont recall articals questioning when he will win the CL. It is almost a unrealistic level of praise which is a combination of how great he is, his years as a former player and his pro Catalan independence stance. He is and was unquestioned, thats the only way to put it. A coach couldnt ask for less criticism.

At Bayern he doesnt have that. What he has is a normal situation where some former players question what he does, question his methods and the media build a narrative that he was to win the CL or he has failed. Its relatively normal, noone is suggesting otherwise.

All I am saying is, this is a man who "had enough" and needed a break. As a Barca fan and inspiring coach, I couldnt fathom a situation where the Barca situation brings on a need for a break after x amount of years, but the Bayern situation I can continue for longer.

And in the end, he obviously should do what he wants. But as Barca fan, it would sit quite uncomfortably with me if by the end he coached Bayern before years than Barca. Whatever the reasons.


I think maybe it's simple.

First of all, he's a workaholic, by all accounts bordering on obsession, so maybe he just needs a break after a few years. Maybe his amount of committment to the job carries with it that he's not able to do it over many years without a break.

The other thing: the strain on him, when he has enough etc., surely should have more to do with inside going-ons in the club, then what some volatile editorial say after a loss.

And there, maybe the 'lesser' role at Bayern is actually more convenient, or less stressful, for him?

I can quote a passage from this book by Marti Perarnau, Herr Pep/Pep Confidential, though of course I wouldn't be sure it's the whole story. It might be telling still

Perarnau wrote:The way Bayern support him is remarkable. Pep is less in charge than he was at Barcelona. Here he’s just the coach, but instead of making him feel uncomfortable, this ‘lesser’ role has been a liberation. His friend, Xavier Sala i Martín, puts it like this: ‘The burnout factor for Pep in Munich is less than at Barcelona because there he had to step into roles which shouldn’t really have been his, due to the lack of leadership there. There were moments when he seemed almost to be the president of Catalunya, the coach of FC Barcelona and the club spokesman. He had to fight accusations of doping, battle Mourinho and deal with UEFA. His work in Munich is much more normal.’

There's more to that effect in the book, which is tbh a Pep-Bayern wankfest though.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by dostoevsky on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:25 pm

@Dani: Fully agreed, I think it's a bad idea in general for managers to return to sides where there's still a core of the former side, particularly when this core is likely now past its prime and it can make it difficult to truly move on. Same problem as when former players take over their former side, like Inzaghi, who would play his old team mates like Bonera no matter what.

@ES: I think it was along the lines of "he's the ----ing boss," referring to his control of the media room.

Spoiler:
Inb4 Rafinha and bringing Keita in from Roma on an 8 year contract.
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:27 pm

going to post a bit more, if there's a copyright problem you can delete it.
This about Bayern figures speaking out and public controversy.
Spoiler:

Perarnau wrote:PEP WAS PLEASANTLY surprised by the reaction of Uli Hoeness and Kalle Rummenigge the day after the European Super Cup match in Prague. Bayern’s top executives had immediately sprung to his defence. ‘Mourinho’s comments are completely out of order … but then perhaps it was a different match he was watching.’
The Chelsea coach had said: ‘Every time I play Pep I end up with 10 men. It must be some sort of UEFA rule.’ What Mourinho forgot to say that day in Prague was that Ramires’ tackle on Mario Götze had torn the ligaments of the German player’s ankle. It was Ramires’ second yellow card and he was sent off, but in truth, the severity of the tackle should have resulted in a straight red.
Pep was taken aback because he was so unused to getting this level of support from his bosses. During his time at Barça he had had to deal with numerous unwarranted and serious attacks on the team and the whole institution, and his was often the sole voice raised in their defence. In April 2011 Barcelona and Real Madrid had a run of four derbies in 18 days. These Clásicos were marred by excessive levels of hostility and a few Madrid players played with an aggression bordering on violence, whilst more than one Barça player indulged in diving and other unsportsmanlike conduct.
After the Copa del Rey final, which Madrid won with a Cristiano Ronaldo goal, the Barcelona coach congratulated the opposition, adding that his own team had been very close to victory themselves. The referee had, rightly, disallowed a goal by Pedro for offside. Guardiola said later: ‘A two-centimetre decision from a linesman who must have had a very good view ruled out Pedro’s goal.’
On April 26, 2011, Pep and his players were having lunch in the private restaurant of the Eurostars Madrid Tower Hotel. The television was showing Mourinho’s press conference ahead of the Champions League semi-final they would be playing the next day. Pep had his back to the screen and wasn’t paying attention when one of his assistants suggested he turn around and listen.
‘We have started a new cycle. Up until now there was a very small group of coaches who didn’t talk about referees and a very large group, in which I am included, who criticise referees. Now, with Pep’s comments, we have started a new era with a third group, featuring only one person, a man who criticises the referee when he makes good decisions. This is completely new to me.’
Pep’s players were also listening by this stage and were furious at Mourinho’s words and his mocking tone. It was the last straw for Guardiola. ‘The time has come!’
A few months earlier, Pep had said to his closest colleagues: ‘I know Mourinho only too well and he’s trying to provoke me into a reaction, but it won’t work. I’m not going to react. I’m not going to answer back. Only when I think the time is right.’
Mourinho was relentless and had often managed to wind Pep up. The Catalan had, however, maintained a dignified silence so far. Now his moment had come.
At 8pm on the day before the match, the players left the training session at the Bernabéu stadium, sensing that Pep was about to respond in kind to Mourinho. Word had got out and even senior management had heard that Pep was preparing a strongly-worded statement. Leaving the dressing room, one of the players closest to Guardiola wished him luck with the press conference, as did sports director Andoni Zubizarreta, who surprised him by saying, ‘We don’t answer back, eh, Pep? We don’t answer back. We like a low profile. A low profile’.
Once again Pep was left feeling that the club had hung him out to dry and he decided to ignore management’s advice and go ahead anyway. This time he responded with unprecedented fury. ‘Señor Mourinho has permitted himself the luxury of calling me Pep, so I will call him Jose. Tomorrow at 8.45pm we face each other on the pitch. He has won the battle off the pitch. He’s bested me in that arena the entire season and no doubt will continue to do so. If he wants his own personal Champions League trophy away from the pitch, let him take it home and enjoy it. In this room [the Bernabéu press room] Mourinho is the *bleep* chief, the *bleep* boss. He knows all about this and I don’t want to compete with him in here. I’d just like to remind him that I worked with him for four years [at Barcelona]. He knows me and I know him. If he prefers to value the views of the journalist friends who take their information in a drip feed from Florentino Pérez more than the relationship we had for four years then that’s his choice. I congratulated Real Madrid for winning the Cup. The offside call was a matter of centimetres. The referee was extremely smart and on the ball. I try to learn from Jose on the pitch when we play him or when I watch his team on television, but I prefer to learn as little as possible from him off the pitch.’
Pep’s response that evening had inflamed an already tense situation. When he arrived at the team hotel, his men were waiting to give him a standing ovation. They were delighted with his response, which they considered long overdue. These were players who, although used to receiving their fair share of praise and adulation, had also been accused of a range of transgressions including doping, dirty tricks, play acting and exerting undue influence over referees – and all of this whilst the club’s management pursued their apathetic policy of maintaining a low profile. The senior executives were not interested in defending them, but now Guardiola had stepped in. And he’d done it in the right place at exactly the right time.
In Munich, people are used to plain speaking. Men like Beckenbauer and Hoeness have never held back from criticising the coach or one of their players. What in Spain would be considered outright war in Bavaria is seen as a frank exchange of views. Nobody was surprised, for example, when the Allianz Arena’s Master of Ceremonies, Stephan Lehmann, asked Paul Breitner about a penalty they had been given. The ex-player told him: ‘That wasn’t a penalty. They gifted it to us.’ The conversation took place on the pitch at half-time in the Bayern-Nürnberg derby on August 24 and nobody felt that Breitner’s blunt honesty had been inappropriate.
Guardiola has had to get used to this new culture and midway through September 2013 finds himself caught up in ‘Hurricane Sammer’.
Bayern are up against Hannover 96 and the match goes in much the same direction as the one against Nuremberg three weeks before: a slow, dull, monotonous first half followed by an impassioned wake-up call by Guardiola at half-time and then a fast, furious second half which again ends with a 2-0 win.
The coach isn’t happy with his men’s performance but he’s also not particularly surprised.
He has always had concerns about the first game after an international call-up. For almost two weeks the players train differently and have to adapt their playing style to the national team. Their return to the club is usually a bit chaotic. ‘After eight or nine days with their national teams the players’ rhythm has completely changed. But we are ready to play the Champions League,’ says Pep after the match. He has chosen his words carefully, not wanting to betray his true feelings.
Perhaps for the first time since coming to Bayern, he is depressed and angry. It isn’t about the disconcerting sight of Thomas Müller being forced to play in midfield again because of all the injuries. In fact, playing a striker in midfield is actually beginning to show the player up.
It seems the players still do not fully understand him and he is not managing to make the team function well enough. Matthias Sammer is quick to intervene. Quietly but forcefully he makes his opinion clear: ‘We must forget the titles we’ve won – we are lethargic out there, unemotional. We’re just going through the motions and should be moving out of our comfort zone. Why am I saying this? Because the coach shouldn’t have to intervene to wake the players up every time they play. We are all hiding behind the coach.’
Despite all predictions to the contrary, Guardiola and Sammer have developed a strong, mutually-supportive relationship. They have immediately sensed how important they could be for each other and are determined to work together to take the club forward. Sammer also has the intuition of a former player whose talent made him a team leader. He has been quick to spot the team’s laid-back approach to games and that is why he has decided to drop this bomb without warning Pep. The coach is taken aback by the sports director’s directness but is nonetheless quite pleased and is quick to defend Sammer in the storm that blows up in the aftermath of his declaration.
As usually happens in Munich, Sammer’s words elicit a response. This time it is president Hoeness who speaks up in German newspaper Bild: ‘Apparently we should be apologising for only winning 2-0. Maybe we’ve actually lost four or five games. They must be laughing themselves silly at Dortmund.’
Kicker magazine adds: ‘We understand that Matthias wanted to make things better, but if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.’
Next Rummenigge enters the fray: ‘This is great for the press but it is not what either the team or the coach needed.’
Beckenbauer and Lotthar Matthäus also have their own opinions on the matter. As do the players. Toni Kroos and Manuel Neuer accept the criticisms publicly, agreeing that they did indeed play badly against Hannover and describing Sammer’s comments as a much needed wake-up call. Captain Philipp Lahm, on the other hand, appeals for criticisms like these to be aired privately in the dressing room rather than in public.
Two days later, the day before their first Champions League match, Guardiola speaks about the controversy. ‘This is about cultural differences and I have come to realise that in Germany this type of reaction is normal and I have to adapt. If the same thing happened in Spain – bam! – we’d have a huge problem on our hands, but it’s completely normal here and I wasn’t at all surprised by Sammer’s comments. He’s like me, very emotional.’

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:34 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:

I think maybe it's simple.

First of all, he's a workaholic, by all accounts bordering on obsession, so maybe he just needs a break after a few years. Maybe his amount of committment to the job carries with it that he's not able to do it over many years without a break.

The other thing: the strain on him, when he has enough etc., surely should have more to do with inside going-ons in the club, then what some volatile editorial say after a loss.

And there, maybe the 'lesser' role at Bayern is actually more convenient, or less stressful, for him?

I can quote a passage from this book by Marti Perarnau, Herr Pep/Pep Confidential, though of course I wouldn't be sure it's the whole story. It might be telling still

Perarnau wrote:The way Bayern support him is remarkable. Pep is less in charge than he was at Barcelona. Here he’s just the coach, but instead of making him feel uncomfortable, this ‘lesser’ role has been a liberation. His friend, Xavier Sala i Martín, puts it like this: ‘The burnout factor for Pep in Munich is less than at Barcelona because there he had to step into roles which shouldn’t really have been his, due to the lack of leadership there. There were moments when he seemed almost to be the president of Catalunya, the coach of FC Barcelona and the club spokesman. He had to fight accusations of doping, battle Mourinho and deal with UEFA. His work in Munich is much more normal.’

There's more to that effect in the book, which is tbh a Pep-Bayern wankfest though.

I dont think he had enough simply because of all the other stuff. I think he ran out of ideas with the team, I think he did everything he could to get them a step ahead (Messi as a 9, Ibra, 3 at the back, Cesc) but he was running out of ideas. Thats not a criticism, there is only so much which is possible without changing 4-5 key players every season.

Overall, I think its common sense to say it wasnt one thing which made him quit. But many things, the things you quoted there and the things on the pitch. Overall only he would have any chance at all of knowing, maybe not even he knows, but its probably safe to say it was many things.

I believe that stuff, the way Pep comes across it makes sense. Though that for me is a bit of a flaw of his, it shouldnt be a burden to him to defend the club in that way. Mourinho was taking total liberties and to the extent the players needed Pep..this is part of the job of the coach, the impact outside forces have on players. Its his job to defend them. I also dont think its accurate to say he was alone in defending Barca, he wasnt. As much as I dislike him, Rossell did too.

I get it, at Bayern none of these things are an isuse. The Bundesliga is not a controversy, Bayern and not a controversy. Its relatively easy. And the pressure to win things would be there with or without people saying so, so I get that also.







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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by The Franchise on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:48 pm

I have read that before Hans, its a good example of what you speak of. I think though its an exaggeration to some degree.

Zubi (another one I dislike) surely only said that to Pep because that had been Pep's entire demeanour untill that point...Pep had totally ignored every insult from Mourinho, he had done everything to retain his imagine of professionalism. What else would Zubi think? Mourinho again talking and Pep rising above this. Pep was the leader of the club, weather he wanted it or not, his performances and stature brought that, especially so once Laporta had left.

Zubi nor anyone else tell Pep what to do, they take the lead from him. So if he acts in one way, they naturally will follow him.

Bayern is different. Like it says, the people of Munich (Germans in general in my experience) are ALOT more direct and get to the point. Plus guys like Beckenbauer see it as "their club" and are the leaders of the club..more so than Pep, so it seems only normal to me they would defend the club so openly and not hesitate to take the lead there.

I am sure if Cruyff was put in the position Beckenbauer is in, he would be that way too.

Same with Sammer there with calling the players out. We are talking about different kinds of people and also football people.

Bayern have that and Barca dont.

It makes sense that these differences are good for Pep, but it seems to me that Pep is too frail in this way.
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:57 pm

As I said, I wouldn't treat that book, and especially its celebratory tone, as the bible. Just thought it fitted here as material (figured you'd knew it though).

Yes. Pep's a bit of a touchy character, it seems. With Barca, maybe indeed he felt his approach, and relation to the team, had peaked. Who knows.

The whole point being, I really feel like if he left after THIS season, it would be too soon.
NOW he has a team that is new/different from the 12/13 one.
Thiago's basically starting now, too.
Some players left, some new kids.
We hadn't really invested into the squad since Pep arrived, until now.
His relation to the team and their appreciation of his work is obviously very high, else you don't perform like that in small games. The team spirit is great, there not so much ego in the dressing room. We're playing some great stuff.
I also think the squad is uniquely suited to tactical experiments, variability, whatever. There's not many players like Alaba. If he wants to implement things, they can do it.

He should capitalize on that, as I said, I highly doubt he'll get a better environment anywhere else, at this point in time.

I REALLY hope he extends lol.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:03 pm

Let's not beat around the bush. Pep doesn't have the balls to take over a less than CL finalist potential team and test himself in a more competitive environment. He'll probably retire after Bayern.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:12 pm

stop forcing the burqa onto your new girl futbol.
A bikini pic avatar would be sign of emancipation and freedom Thumbs up

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:17 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:stop forcing the burqa onto your new girl futbol.
A bikini pic avatar would be sign of emancipation and freedom Thumbs up


smdh

As a great Internet philosopher once said.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:34 pm

I might smdh once you've posted that bikini pic hmm

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Lucifer on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:36 pm

Next guy saying Germans dnt have sense of humour is getting poked in eye and kick in nuts from me
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:43 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:I might smdh once you've posted that bikini pic hmm


Last time someone did come at me like this I handcuffed him in my basement and forced him to watch 24 hours of Chelsea games without a break. So you better think twice before coming at me.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:50 pm

I do apologize.

You know my maxim - if there's a joke to be made, I must make it, no matter whether I ultimately approve of it.
I think you can relate, I've seen you take a similar approach, and be unjustifiedly called a sexist pig in the process.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Curtinho on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:36 pm

@futbol wrote:Let's not beat around the bush. Pep doesn't have the balls to take over a less than CL finalist potential team and test himself in a more competitive environment. He'll probably retire after Bayern.

I don't know about that (especially since there's no reason for him to do it) but it is interesting how sometimes being a 'great' manager depends so much on circumstance. Inheriting the team he did at Barcelona, and the team he did at Bayern...a lot of managers could probably do fantastic jobs with those players.

Should be interesting to see how he does if he actually goes to City after this season.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:40 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:I do apologize.

You know my maxim - if there's a joke to be made, I must make it, no matter whether I ultimately approve of it.
I think you can relate, I've seen you take a similar approach, and be unjustifiedly called a sexist pig in the process.


Apologies accepted. You know I can't be mad at my little Hänschen for too long. :wub:

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Kaladin on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:44 pm

Get a room

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Winter is Coming on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:45 pm

@Curtinho wrote:
@futbol wrote:Let's not beat around the bush. Pep doesn't have the balls to take over a less than CL finalist potential team and test himself in a more competitive environment. He'll probably retire after Bayern.

I don't know about that (especially since there's no reason for him to do it) but it is interesting how sometimes being a 'great' manager depends so much on circumstance. Inheriting the team he did at Barcelona, and the team he did at Bayern...a lot of managers could probably do fantastic jobs with those players.

Should be interesting to see how he does if he actually goes to City after this season.


It doesn't matter what he inherits the man knows what he's doing and can bring the best out of players/teams, He has flipping Costa/Coman performing like Neymar/Bale/Hazard if not better and they definitely are having the better season currently even tho its early and few games in.

Do you honestly think if he had the Chelsea, City, PSG side for example in the last 2-3 years he wouldn't have improved them? And have them competing on all fronts?

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:51 pm

stop talking about my penis futbol

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by farfan on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:54 pm

@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Curtinho wrote:
@futbol wrote:Let's not beat around the bush. Pep doesn't have the balls to take over a less than CL finalist potential team and test himself in a more competitive environment. He'll probably retire after Bayern.

I don't know about that (especially since there's no reason for him to do it) but it is interesting how sometimes being a 'great' manager depends so much on circumstance. Inheriting the team he did at Barcelona, and the team he did at Bayern...a lot of managers could probably do fantastic jobs with those players.

Should be interesting to see how he does if he actually goes to City after this season.


He has flipping Costa/Coman performing like Neymar/Bale/Hazard if not better and they definitely are having the better season currently even tho its early and few games in.


how much of that is  " Guardiola magic " and how much is simply these guys are good ?  Coman was rarely given a chance at Juve and nobody here knew a single thing about Costa .
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:56 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Curtinho wrote:

I don't know about that (especially since there's no reason for him to do it) but it is interesting how sometimes being a 'great' manager depends so much on circumstance. Inheriting the team he did at Barcelona, and the team he did at Bayern...a lot of managers could probably do fantastic jobs with those players.

Should be interesting to see how he does if he actually goes to City after this season.


He has flipping Costa/Coman performing like Neymar/Bale/Hazard if not better and they definitely are having the better season currently even tho its early and few games in.


how much of that is  " Guardiola magic " and how much is simply these guys are good ?  Coman was rarely given a chance at Juve and nobody here knew a single thing about Costa .


Doesn't matter. Anyone who sees us playing and doesn't conclude Pep is doing fan *bleep* tastic work has either an agenda or some impaired vision

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Winter is Coming on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:00 pm

@farfan wrote:
@Winter is Coming wrote:
@Curtinho wrote:I don't know about that (especially since there's no reason for him to do it) but it is interesting how sometimes being a 'great' manager depends so much on circumstance. Inheriting the team he did at Barcelona, and the team he did at Bayern...a lot of managers could probably do fantastic jobs with those players.

Should be interesting to see how he does if he actually goes to City after this season.
He has flipping Costa/Coman performing like Neymar/Bale/Hazard if not better and they definitely are having the better season currently even tho its early and few games in.
how much of that is  " Guardiola magic " and how much is simply these guys are good ?  Coman was rarely given a chance at Juve and nobody here knew a single thing about Costa .
I'm not saying these guys aren't good or weren't good before, but a coach needs to know how to use these guys, does he not? Pep style of play and his freedom that he gives the wingers allows most to express themselves on the pitch not to mention his confidence in the players themselves, of course the players themselves have to show it Coman came off the bench in the start now I believe he's played the last 2 games full 90 minutes if I'm not mistaken of course that came from him proving himself.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Curtinho on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:55 pm

I'm not saying that Guardiola isn't doing a good job. I'm just saying that his job is maybe relatively easy compared to some others. I mean you first have Barcelona with guys like Messi, Iniesta, Busquets, Xavi, Alves, etc. moving to Bayern with players like Robben, Ribery, Muller, Neuer, Lahm, etc. with other world class players chomping at the bit to join either team (which makes his job easier to add to these teams and fix problems).

Again, that doesn't mean he isn't a brilliant coach, or what have you. But I think it's a lot easier to look brilliant when you literally have the best of the best in the world on your team, and no shortage of replacements if needed. Look at what happened to Liverpool from one season to the next when they couldn't attract a WC replacement for Suarez and lost Sturridge at the same time.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:37 pm

I know, I know, Brendan now "is the same as the coach that took Liverpool to 2nd place, only better". It's just his player material has declined so much, damn them Mad
Just imagine what he could do with Bayern's squad Laughing

No. The work of a coach, to get a TEAM to play, is the same no matter how good the individual quality.
A better coach than Rodgers could have found better solutions for the loss of top players.

We played last season in huge parts without Lahm, Robben, Ribery, Alaba, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Benatia, Badstuber.
It didn't impact the way we performed as a team, the way we played. We didn't have to rebuild or reinvent tactically everytime a player got injured.
We still won the league, we still made CL semis.
We still played badly away at Porto in a manner that could NOT be excused by missing individuals, and we played brilliantly against Porto in a way that wouldn't be possible without outstanding coaching.

btw, we're still playing without many of them, and added a player that was 10m cheaper than Firmino. Costa.
Don't blame your players for your coach's mediocrity.
This whole argument you're doing is very misguided. Things like that are not interchangeable.


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Winter is Coming on Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:39 pm

I'm not denying that he hasn't coached the best or doesn't have talent and his whole success in on him solely, its always been a team game, but the reality still is despite Barcelona/Bayern talent, who do you think would've done as good as Pep there? Would Mou/Carlo/etc have benched Yaya Toure for Busquets? Who they have converted Messi to a false 9 or kept Henry/Eto'o/Ibra? Would they have bought Pique back? Would they convince Xavi to remain? Would Iniesta had the role he played Under Pep with anyone else? Would we have the intensity/possession/pressure type of style that made us among the best? Theres a lot of little details that would need to be looked at also. With Bayern its one thing with Barcelona its another as he took over after 2 years without a title and finishing third in the league despite that talent we still had then.

Its like what Hitzfeld said, "Bayern’s appearing so dominant at present is not related to any investments – otherwise English teams would perform much better in the Champions League. It has a lot to do with Guardiola and how he thinks about dominance, tactics and tempo. There is a lot of meticulous work behind it, and that is the work of Guardiola.”

So, he's saying that many people may look at the talent (investment) made, but it has little to do with that and more to do with the coach and how he thinks. That is one thing that Pep has been constantly praised for. Of course he's not perfect and doesn't always deliver despite the talent he has to work with he's human like many others and has his brain fart moments.

The whole notation that he needs to go to a lesser team to prove himself, when despite when coaches even with proven team and talent have failed to deliver.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Curtinho on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:02 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:I know, I know, Brendan now "is the same as the coach that took Liverpool to 2nd place, only better". It's just his player material has declined so much, damn them Mad
Just imagine what he could do with Bayern's squad Laughing

No. The work of a coach, to get a TEAM to play, is the same no matter how good the individual quality.
A better coach than Rodgers could have found better solutions for the loss of top players.

We played last season in huge parts without Lahm, Robben, Ribery, Alaba, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Benatia, Badstuber.
It didn't impact the way we performed as a team, the way we played. We didn't have to rebuild or reinvent tactically everytime a player got injured.
We still won the league, we still made CL semis.
We still played badly away at Porto in a manner that could NOT be excused by missing individuals, and we played brilliantly against Porto in a way that wouldn't be possible without outstanding coaching.

btw, we're still playing without many of them, and added a player that was 10m cheaper than Firmino. Costa.
Don't blame your players for your coach's mediocrity.
This whole argument you're doing is very misguided. Things like that are not interchangeable.

You're right. The players that Liverpool has now are completely comparable and should be expected to perform at the same level as those at Bayern.

Anyway, I'm not blaming the players for Rodgers' shortcomings. He has obviously struggled (in some ways). With that said even when Bayern aren't fielding the likes of Robbery, or Alaba, or Thiago, or Martinez, et. al. you're still fielding guys like Lewandowski, Muller, Gotze, Boateng, Bernat, Alonso and have even added Vidal and Costa to that. Who do Liverpool have when Sturridge, Coutinho and Henderson go down (and that's not even accounting for the fact that none of those three are on the level of Bayern starters to begin with, maybe not even their back-ups).

Which is kind of my point in this case. Rodgers has his own shortcomings, but you can definitely cover for a lot of those things by having 10 WC players instead of maybe 2, if that. Then of course it's a lot easier to attract those kinds of players when you're on top of the world and have no shortage of money.

Again, I'm not saying that Pep isn't a brilliant coach. He does a great job with the tools that he has. No doubt. I'm saying a lot of top coaches are also partially aided by circumstance. It would be interesting to see Pep at a club like City, or even going further and putting him somewhere like Newcastle. Though again, he wouldn't ever go there so it's kind of pointless to speculate.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Cruijf on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:07 pm

It's a pointless argument though. Pep was first noticed by the Barca board when he did a great job with Barca B. Same thing with Van Gaal at Ajax and Mourinho with Porto.

All the great coaches got chances at big clubs, not because they won the CL with Newcastle, but because they impressed at small clubs. The likes of Pardew and Rogers didn't and so they're not mentioned in the same breath. That's how it works.

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