Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

[McAgger]

No way Bayern would have won that semi regardless of Robben or anything. Barca was pretty dominant themselves in the first half and Suarez was pretty much the most dangerous player in that second leg. They took him out at half time when they were up 2-1 because the job was done and didn't want to aggravate his injury further. If he had played on I suspect it would have been more of the same. It was easier to handle Messi and Nerman without the grit of Suarez.

[Hapless_Hans]

No doubt our form regressed in the springs of last 2 seasons. So while we are fantastic now and thus winning the league, it indeed doesn't say anything about what will happen in the CL knockouts.

As for Pep to City, this 'breaking news' has been breaking continually since Pep joined us. Let's wait and see.
It might well be what he's going to do, but tbh it doesn't sound that convincing to me. If anything, staying another couple of years then taking over Arsenal would make more sense.

[Cruijf]

No way Bayern would have won that semi regardless of Robben or anything. Barca was pretty dominant themselves in the first half and Suarez was pretty much the most dangerous player in that second leg. They took him out at half time when they were up 2-1 because the job was done and didn't want to aggravate his injury further. If he had played on I suspect it would have been more of the same. It was easier to handle Messi and Nerman without the grit of Suarez.

Ignore the second leg, it means nothing as the tie was over and everyone knew it.

The first leg was a fairly even match though. In the end Barca were able to create more chances and finish them and Bayern couldn't, but it was certainly a small margin. If Robbery was fit it could have been a very different story.

[Hapless_Hans]

No way Bayern would have won that semi regardless of Robben or anything. Barca was pretty dominant themselves in the first half and Suarez was pretty much the most dangerous player in that second leg. They took him out at half time when they were up 2-1 because the job was done and didn't want to aggravate his injury further. If he had played on I suspect it would have been more of the same. It was easier to handle Messi and Nerman without the grit of Suarez.

Ignore the second leg, it means nothing as the tie was over and everyone knew it.

The first leg was a fairly even match though. In the end Barca were able to create more chances and finish them and Bayern couldn't, but it was certainly a small margin. If Robbery was fit it could have been a very different story.

Missing Alaba was maybe even worse.

[Adit]

First leg was no way even match. Having messi does that to you. I really don't think Barca's defense had any problem that match. On the other hand Bayern's defense got raped in the second half.

I remember the same things said about Bayern in the year we played them. How they are going to become the first team to retain it and how them finishing Bundesliga by December shows they are unstoppable and what not.
Come the business end , guardiola got absolutely outclassed by Ancelotti...both legs. We could've played 500 minutes and they still would not have created a single chance and that is with Bale,modric,Xabi,Di Maria midfield covering the defense.

[futbol]

Some lack of logic here from the usual Guardiola fanboys.

Logical fallacy 1: Barca stopped playing after 5-1. Mascherano more or less said so himself after the game. He apologized for the lack of professionalism. They dropped the intensity. So first of all 5-3 doesn't tell the story. Bayern needed 5 more goals at some point within 45 minutes. Bayern played for their pride, Barca had the next La Liga game in mind. Ya know, there are some leagues that aren't settled in October.

Logical fallacy 2: MAtS making a couple of saves doesn't mean Bayern could have actually scored all those chances. Let's say Lewandowski's shot goes in and MAtS doesn't save it. That already changes the complexion of the game. Why do you think Barca won't react and play differently afterwards? As happened after Benatia scored and Barca quickly reacted with 2 goals. All the other chances that Bayern created afterwards might not even have occured if Barca really did concede and were forced to step it up.

Logical fallacy 3: Who would Robben and Ribery have replaced in the Bayern lineup? Lewandowski? No. Müller? No. Schweinsteiger, Alonso, Thiago or Lahm? So if they have to take out 2 midfielders for 2 winger who says that the complexion of the game wouldn't have been completely different to Bayern's disadvantage with that much less midfield control against Barca? Bayern going to play with 2 midfielders? Who says they wouldn't have scored more goals but also conceded a lot more that way?

Some logic, pls.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Yeah but the fact is you stopped playing, the reasons why are irrelevant.

Also you conveniently ignore the umpteen chances that both Lewandowski and Muller missed which Ter Stegen didn't save.... like it or not the lack of firepower was a big factor why Bayern were knocked out.

Also Alaba missing defensively which i forgot was a big factor also.... plus the first leg was close, it was 0-0 until very late when Messi turned it on it's head.

Of course it changes the complexity of the game, say they get it to 5-4 or 4-4 the momentum is already gone and spun in their favour.... football isn't a light switch you can't just turn it on and off when you feel like it. Once it's off it's very difficult to switch it back on which is what happened.... Barca tried to get back control of the tie but simply couldn't but luckily for them Ter Stegen saved multiple chances and bad finishing from their only two attacking forces saved them.

Also what midfield control

Barca never had midfield control in the entire tie, they were just able to create counter attack opportunities a lot and score when it really mattered.

You want to talk about logical fallacy? how about you completely ignoring the fact the impact of only having two attacking threats on the pitch had on the overall result.... both of which can't really create for themselves.

Of course Ribery and Robben among other injuries would have impacted the tie positively for Bayern, this midfield control stuff is nonsense as well acting like Barca wasn't through balling like prime FIFA and turning the ball over constantly.

[futbol]

I got a headache from reading that.

[RealGunner]

You can't say that Robben who was/is comfortably a top 5 player wouldn't have made a difference against Barca. Same with Ribery

It's like saying Pedro-Munir instead of Suarez-Neymar would have still resulted in barca winning 3-0 against Bayern

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I got a headache from reading that.

Same to you tbh.

Glad we understand each other (:

[futbol]

You can't say that Robben who was/is comfortably a top 5 player wouldn't have made a difference against Barca. Same with Ribery

It's like saying Pedro-Munir instead of Suarez-Neymar would have still resulted in barca winning 3-0 against Bayern

Not it's not the same because the replacements of Ribery and Robben aren't Munir and Pedro but world class players. So who do you take out from Lewandowksi, Müller, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Alonso, Lahm to fit in Ribery and Robben without losing something else, for instance midfield control if they replace 2 midfielders with 2 wingers?

Also keep in mind 3 man defense is not an option because it evidently got raped against a 3 striker system like Barca's.

[farfan]

they would've replaced Lewa ( badly concussed and had no business playing anyway ) and misfit Gotze .

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Stop talking about midfield control like they were playing against Pep's Barca pls

They had midfield control and it meant *bleep* all, they needed creativity and players who could create things for themselves.

The players who could provide that were injured, stahp acting like it didn't make an impact on the tie like those Bayern fans who were acting like Barca's own issues didn't impact the 7-1 or whatever it was

It's funny how those ties are almost identical btw but flipped

[futbol]

they would've replaced Lewa ( badly concussed and had no business playing anyway ) and misfit Gotze .

Lewa scored a goal and had a chance cleared off the line. Who guarantees Robben was going to do better?

Götze didn't even play.

[RealGunner]

When has Pep ever bench 2 World Class players just for the sake of 'midfield control'? Wtf is even midfield control? I didn't see any control even with the likes of Bastian, Alonso and Thiago starting. In fact, those players made it easier for Barcelona to walk through Bayern.

Do you think Pep would bench Douglas Costa for another midfielder for the sake of 'midfield control'?

Regarding who he would have dropped. I don't know since I am not pep but he would have made something work. For starters, he wouldn't have started 3 at the back and would have gone with 4-3-3 from the start with Ribery-Lewa-Robben and Thiago-Alonso-Bastian.

Lewa scored a goal and had a chance cleared off the line. Who guarantees Robben was going to do better?

Do you honestly require guarantee when someone like Robben is involved? He would have destroyed Alba.

[farfan]

they would've replaced Lewa ( badly concussed and had no business playing anyway )  and misfit Gotze .

Lewa scored a goal and had a chance cleared off the line. Who guarantees Robben was going to do better?

Götze didn't even play.

Lewa didn't score shit in the first leg and missed an absolute sitter . the guy was nursing a severe head injury ffs.

-----Ribery--------Muller---------Robben-----


-----------------Tiago-----------Piggy---------
------------------------Alonso---------------

Lahm at RB or instead of Piggy .

[Hapless_Hans]

Not it's not the same because the replacements of Ribery and Robben aren't Munir and Pedro but world class players.

Which replacements? We didn't have a single wide attacker in our squad at that point

[futbol]

Stop talking about midfield control like they were playing against Pep's Barca pls

They had midfield control and it meant *bleep* all, they needed creativity and players who could create things for themselves.

The players who could provide that were injured, stahp acting like it didn't make an impact on the tie like those Bayern fans who were acting like Barca's own issues didn't impact the 7-1 or whatever it was

It's funny how those ties are almost identical btw but flipped

What do you mean "it meant bleep all"? And what do you mean with "Pep's Barca"? I don't get it. Bayern played well in the second leg because of their midfield superiority and because they moved the ball very well. Take away 2 midfielders and they don't have the same level of midfield control. Simple concept. You are pretending Bayern can play with the same midfield dominance AND add Robbery while in reality they would have to give up midfield control to gain attacking power. Which no one knows how it will effect their general play.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

I know damn well that it would allow them to create more chances which is the point.

Their biggest attacking threat was Muller and Lewandowski, two players who can't create for others.

As usual you are over analyzing things Franchise Jr (:

[futbol]

So from what I'm reading here from you guys the solution is to bench the likes of Lewandowski or Müller, players that are equally important as Robben or Ribery, because Robben in your imaginary world could have scored 3 on his own.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

No i would have benched one of the midfielders because they were pointless.

Because unlike you i realize that midfield control means nothing against a Barca team which were complete by passing it anyway

[Hapless_Hans]

It's a pointless argument. We lost, and we lost pretty clearly in the end.

[futbol]

And how open will Bayern be defensively with 2 bodies less in the middle? Let's ignore "midfield dominance" and concentrate on the defensive phase. Slowlonso and Thiago going to create enough chances as well as boss the defensive phase of the game? Okay.

[Kaladin]

Pep is a good coach

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

And how open will Bayern be defensively with 2 bodies less in the middle? Let's ignore "midfield dominance" and concentrate on the defensive phase. Slowlonso and Thiago going to create enough chances as well as boss the defensive phase of the game? Okay.

i never said 2.... i said one. Besides they were open regardless

You are looking far too much into this to suit your agenda of " Pep sucks lolz" All i was saying is i believe they would have won if they didn't have so many injuries last year and i don't believe that is such a far fetched claim to make.

[farfan]

i'm not sure why he's insisting with the " 2 midfield " thing as if it was inevitable .

Bayern could've fielded a 3 man midfield + Robery with the only notable absence being a badly concussed striker who had no business being there in the first place .

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