Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Bankz on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:17 pm

Seems like Peps still sobbing bout not getting neymar tbh..

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:20 pm

no proof, no apology. gtfo of this thread

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Doc on Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:36 pm

Gonna hazard a guess that Hans (with a different username) is being confused with Viva (also with a different username). From my recollection (which is as sound as S), Hans has always been a staunch defender of Pep's time at Bayern to a point where he was disregarding points of views that he deemed ignorant or repetitive.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Donuts on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:20 pm

@Bankz wrote:So we're comparing this buyern to the likes of man yoo and chelsea now? Lol.
Say it as it is, he has underachieved with bayern, simple. Infact going to germany alone guarantees u a league title till u leave so, all you're left with to prove yourself is the Cl and we all know how that is turning out to be

you truly sound stupid with your statements, munich were not winning the league year in and year out prior to pep
also who would you consider to be a great manager?
can't wait to hear this answer.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by jibers on Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:17 pm

@Cruijf wrote:The easiest way to judge if someone knows anything about football is whether or not they rate Pep.

People that come out with these BS criticisms like "he manages stacked teams" are armchair fans who want to appear intelligent by taking hipster views.


This is also my usual stance. I think both he and Mourinho are truly the antithesis of one another. Mou's tactics are easier to learn and implement it have a very low ceiling and he doesn't improve. It doesn't require particularly smart players. pep's takes longer and you need smarter players, but they reach a far higher ceiling.

People that say Barcelona were stacked fail to mention that they were 3rd the season before. Messi was injured every 4 weeks, no Dani Alves, Xavi was about to leave Barcelona, Pique was on Uniteds Bench, Busquets and Pedro were playing in the 3rd division etc No other person could have done what Pep did with Barcelona. The times Pep has suffered the most is when he stopped following his own ideals, Ibrahimovic, 442 in return leg vs Madrid etc

For people saying that he is flopping at Bayern and comparing him to Juup, did Juup not have a losers treble the season before? Bayern were fortunate that season to face a Barcelona team that had no manager for 5 months, an unfit Messi with one leg, and a team that hadn't trained properly for over 4 months. In the final they were lucky to have finished with 11 men as Dante should have been sent off. I guess non of those things mean anything.

No team has ever won the bundesliga 4 times in a row before but I suppose it is a scrub league now, although it was a top league just before Juup retired (:

The only bleep in his Bayern career was that Madrid tie. Bar that they have played very good football and have done exactly what Bayern signed him to do. The Barcelona tie last season was decided by injuries. Imagine a full strength Bayern facing a Barcelona without Messi, Alves and Neymar, just to put things in perspective. They didn't hire him to park the bus in the cl semis.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:07 pm

@jibers wrote:

People that say Barcelona were stacked fail to mention that they were 3rd the season before. Messi was injured every 4 weeks, no Dani Alves, Xavi was about to leave Barcelona, Pique was on Uniteds Bench, Busquets and Pedro were playing in the 3rd division etc No other person could have done what Pep did with Barcelona. The times Pep has suffered the most is when he stopped following his own ideals, Ibrahimovic, 442 in return leg vs Madrid etc


That's such a superficial way of looking at it. Mourinho's Madrid also finished with a 15 point gap to the winners in his last season (Barca 07/08 with a 18 gap) but no one would get the idea to say that Ancelotti took over a team in shambles. Like Madrid did in Mourinho's last season, Barca had dressing room issues, not talent or system issues. Ronaldinho appearing drunk to training sessions and hiding his fat belly under an undershirt when taking off his jersey for goal celebrations. Laughing The same squad won the CL 2 seasons before. So talent or tactics was not the problem. Discipline was. And the major thing Pep brought was discipline and workrate (hiring a private detective to look after Pique just highlights this). To claim no one else could have done that is a big assumption. Xavi about to leave Barca? Xavi was player of the tournament in Euro 08 and led Spain to their first trophy since 64 alongside Iniesta before Pep came in. Messi was Messi. Just in his teens and with no discipline (eating junkfood which made him injury-prone, Pep apparently changed his diet).

So yes, he brought discipline and relentless workrate but let's not pretend he took over an Arsenal-esque squad that was only capable of finishing 3th, reinvented the wheel and won the treble. He took over a squad with players like: Puyol, Yaya, Marquez, Abidal, Alves, Xavi, Iniesta, Keita, Messi, Eto'o, Henry all in their early to mid twenties and he also took over at a time when Madrid themselves were clowning around under Clownderon and Atletico were a joke.

Whether Pep can only work with endless talent is a fair question mark and not hipsterism. For all we know he might look like AVB if he were to coach a more "normal" team like Chelsea and attempt to play a high line with John Terry at the back and get dicked on the counter by every team.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:19 pm

I dont know if I would say tactics were a "problem", that wasnt the reason Barca lost previously.

But Pep own methods were clearly as big a difference as anything else. Any player who played during that time would obviously emphasis the impact of Pep's tactics.

Just listen to Henry gush over his role in the side. A role he still says he hated but totally believed in for the importance of the team.

This is me paraphasing his words, but he says it so well I have to. Pep had a different way against different opponants, how to bring the ball forward and into the final forward. Our players learnt and produced movements and counter movements which allowed the spacing for the team to function. I dont know any other coach who did that at the time and I think anyone is bullshitting if they think anyone else was going to do that too.

Henry (and this is just one player, I have heard it said by others such as Abidal) spoke about how every player knew where to be, when to move and where to move depending on all the factors (ball, team-mate, opponants). I think its fairly easy to assume, Pep was ahead of the field in this area and gave Barca a hugely significant advantage in every game.

And to suggest he would do a similar job to AVB at Chelsea is quite absurd. Has he not had Bayern playing in a very different way to Barca?
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:12 pm

Henry is a pundit and it's his job to entertain the people with mythical anecdotes how Pep invented a perpetuum mobile. He also spent half an hour fawning over Messi getting mad in training and dribbling everyone and narrated it like a fairy tale.

Football is not rocket science. Tactically a winger can track back, press, go wide, cut inside etc. The options are limited. What Henry didn't like and wasn't used to was the workrate that was demanded of him. He had to work defensively like never before according to himself. Which brings us back to my point: Pep brought discipline. When you have talent + discipline that's already 80 % of everything. Once the workrate/discipline isn't there, tactics go out the window and you end up with Tito's Barca. Which was Pep's Barca without the same intensity. Same training drills (confirmed by Xavi), same tactics (Tito wasn't an idiot, assistant coach who worked with Pep since Barca B obviously had the exact same tactical knowledge as Pep).

By the way, the "where to be, what to do" etc. praise I've heard in the exact same manner about many coaches by their players, including Mourinho. It's not limited to Pep.

The Chelsea example isn't absurd. There are some different nuances in Pep's Bayern. Barca was a lot more midfield centric whereas Bayern have their strengths on the wings and work with more crosses etc. but 90 % of the overall scheme is the same. Even Xavi, Pique etc. said they look the same and Pep is doing exactly what he did at Barca with Bayern before the Bayern games last season. Extreme highline, pressing, possession at all cost etc. Why is the Chelsea example not absurd? Because Pep remains he only knows one way and that is "to have the ball". Now a squad like Chelsea's isn't exactly made to dominate the ball at all costs, their backline in particular is too slow. So who tells me if Pep took over a squad like that he wouldn't try to play possession football and end up looking like AVB? Is there any evidence he would go away from having 70 % of the ball (which is only achieveable by pressing aggressively, which requires to push the backline very high)?

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by The Franchise on Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:49 pm

What are you suggesting? Henry is fabricating? That Pep didnt really insist heavily on positional play? Where to be and when?

Football isnt rocket science, no. But pick any winger in the world, even the best ones and they are sometimes wrong in the positions they take up. They make mistakes when to run and what kind of runs to make.

Should then run on the inside of the fullback or the behind him? Should I come deep or stay high? Should I come to the middle? What if the striker leaves the CB zone, where should I move? Even the best players get this wrong occasionally, if not relatively often..its a teaching process.

You can dismiss its importance if you want, but I disagree with you.

Henry work rate? Of course, he was a striker and he became a winger..of course the work rate was new to him. But its equally obvious that the positional play was difficult for him also.

At Arsenal he could drift wherever he wants, whenever he wants. He could freely abandon the striker position and spent time bullying a rightback. Impossible at Barca. He had to glue his feet to the line like he said many times. Will you also call this fabrication? Even though we all saw him do it.

Same tactics with Martino? Hogwosh.

The best tactical attribute of Pep isnt one specific tactic. Its how he changed details depending on the opponent.

That is the number 1 thing we missed on a tactical level. Not the overall philosophy or style (which in parts we tried to keep), but the small details which made the difference..Pep had intelligence and could figure out avenues against nearly every opponent. When he left, that left with it and we was left with a old template which was copied and pasted on.

Pep has a philosophy, which he obviously applied to Bayern. Every real coach has one, because every coach sees the game in his own way and will one way or the other, impart it on the team. But to even suggest for a minute Pep doesnt have the intelligence to use the players he has in the way which suits them best (within his philosophy) is just wrong.

The Chelsea is absurd. The reason is, unlike AVB, Pep would command the respect of the team to actually do as he says, or they wont play.

AVB's biggest problem with Chelsea was not his ideas, it was the fact that the players wouldnt follow them properly, and even if they would they couldnt.

No question to me, if Pep took over such a team as Chelsea he would change everything before trying to make players do what they wont/cant.
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:03 pm

@The Franchise wrote:What are you suggesting? Henry is fabricating? That Pep didnt really insist heavily on positional play? Where to be and when?

Nah. What I'm saying is that Pep telling Henry "when where to be" wasn't the main reason for Barca's success. It was the talent level of the squad combined with the relentless discipline and workrate (manifesting itself on the pitch as pressing and chasing every ball). I mean every coach worth his money tells his players "when where to be". Neymar making those runs for Messi's diagonals time and time again is a well-drilled training ground move and isn't happening randomly. "Should I come deep or stay high? Should I come to the middle? What if the striker leaves the CB zone, where should I move?" We really don't need to go into such basic coaching 101. Pep is hardly the only coach whose players know what to do. Laughing

Obviously every coach has his style and methods but the minor tactical details didn't make the main difference. The major aspect that Pep brought was the discipline and pressing game.

I didn't say same tactics under Martino by the way. I said Tito. Wink

"If Pep took over such a team as Chelsea he would change everything before trying to make players do what they wont/cant."

Well. Pay a visit to BayernZone and read what their fans say. They are moaning exactly about that. About Pep not molding his tactics around the available players but trying to force his players to do stuff which isn't within their main strengths.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:33 pm

What is BayernZone and why would anyone want pay a visit there.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:45 pm

It's a place full of Hapless_Hanses. So yeah, you wouldn't voluntarily go there.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:48 pm

Please accept my resignation. I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:55 pm

Accepted. Now get out of here. Adults are discussing. :coffee:

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:57 pm

Damn. I've been drafting posts for the last 24 hours that would be worthy to get between you and the franchise Sad

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:57 pm

Delete them. :coffee:

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:58 pm

done. Sad

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Kaladin on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:03 pm

Send them over to me, i'll see what i can do with them

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:06 pm

Anyway, before I leave, have to say that your point that Pep, apart from the tactics and using the squad's talent, merely brought discipline and relentless workrate to Barca reminds me of this


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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:09 pm

You're gone now?


Last edited by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:55 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:12 pm

Yes Embarassed


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by The Franchise on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:34 pm

Why would you say that? Did I say Pep telling Henry where to be was the key reason for anything? I merely gave that as an example of what Pep did on a tactical level.

Every coach tells players where to be? I would certainly disagree with that, I think its clear alot of coaches give alot more freedom to offensive players, which is both positive and negative.

We are going off issue though, the main point is Pep most certainty gave Barcelona a tactical advantage over their opponents. I dont see how one could deny that, there are countless examples.


And I certainly disagree if you say small things dont make the difference..I cant imagine how many times I have heard the opposite.

I dont need to pay a visit to BayernZone, because if they are anything like Viva, they are merely deranged fans living in a dream world.

You tell me instead what he is doing which is so alien and wrong for Bayern, because I dont see it.

Finally there is no need to convince me that Pep brought discipline to the team and the team didnt already had talent, everyone knows that. But I maintain that the tactical edge he brought suited Barcelona and have just as big an advantage.



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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Doc on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:39 pm

I don't know but I get the feeling my boy Futbol doesn't particularly rate or think highly of the tactical nuances that Pep brings.

And this is where Hans should have, you know, interject with anything of any note. A gif would suffice at this point.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:41 pm

Meh. futbol has a, let's call it strategic relation to truth and that's all right.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:35 pm

@Doc wrote:I don't know but I get the feeling my boy Futbol doesn't particularly rate or think highly of the tactical nuances that Pep brings.

And this is where Hans should have, you know, interject with anything of any note. A gif would suffice at this point.


Well, the initial statement was: "No other person could have done what Pep did with Barcelona." The usual example, that was also used here, is: "Barca finished 3th before he came." Which makes it sound like he took over a team like Arsenal and turned them into treble winners. The reality is that Barca had already won the CL 2 years prior and key players under Guardiola like Xavi and Iniesta had already delivered another European Cup the season before under Aragones. What stunk up the place were past their prime dressing room killers like Dinho, Deco and Co. Sorting these dressing room cancers out, bringing discipline and employing the relentless pressing system were Pep's major achievements. No minor feat by the way, I'm already giving him a lot of credit. And of course Messi was entering his physical prime years. Everything else tactically and stylistically is of little matter for the end result. IMO of course. Barca won a lot of games despite Pep's methods, not because of them. You look at Bayern and we got 1 on 1 with Neuer last season after a simple goalkick. TWICE. Laughing Asking how Pep would organize a more "mortal" team, let's say Chelea, and additionally in a more competitive environment than Bundesfodder where he won't get away playing with no centerbacks and winning 3-0 against the 3th or 4th best team in the league, is a legit question.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:45 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Meh. futbol has a, let's call it strategic relation to truth and that's all right.


Don't use your psychoanalytical skills on me, pleb! Mad

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