Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:45 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Meh. futbol has a, let's call it strategic relation to truth and that's all right.


Don't use your psychoanalytical skills on me, pleb! Mad

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Doc on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:53 pm

For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong with questioning or querying whether or not Pep can have similar results with "normal" teams and trust the I, I know you give Pep his just dues.

However, this isn't the 1st time you made reference to the tactical side of Pep and how it isn't as grand as people think so, to me, it is giving the impression you don't rate it. Which is fine, it's your opinion but I don't think he would have won that much with Barcelona if he wasn't tactically astute. Even with such awesome talent, he had to have the intelligence to put all in place.

Side note, I'm wondering if McAgger had wrote what you wrote whether or not Hans wouldn't be tripping balls on the keyboard. You are rather docile dear Hans. Surprisingly.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:07 pm

I'm not sure I can really take on futbol and I prefer to pick on weaker opponents.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:29 pm

@Doc wrote:For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong with questioning or querying whether or not Pep can have similar results with "normal" teams and trust the I, I know you give Pep his just dues.

However, this isn't the 1st time you made reference to the tactical side of Pep and how it isn't as grand as people think so, to me, it is giving the impression you don't rate it. Which is fine, it's your opinion but I don't think he would have won that much with Barcelona if he wasn't tactically astute. Even with such awesome talent, he had to have the intelligence to put all in place.

Side note, I'm wondering if McAgger had wrote what you wrote whether or not Hans wouldn't be tripping balls on the keyboard. You are rather docile dear Hans. Surprisingly.


To make this clear, I don't think Pep is tactically clueless. I mean he isn't Moyes just with better motivational skills, that's not what I mean when I say his major influence at Barca was bringing back discipline and pressing. Laughing But at the same time a lot of his experiments and methods work because of the talent gap between his squad and his opponents's squads. For instance, he played 3-7-0 with Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Thiago and Cesc all in the lineup against Santos in the CWC in 11/12. Very unique lineup, only Pep would ever play like that. But was that the reason why Barca could beat Santos? Pls. As a fan it's entertaining for sure but tactical genius? I'm not so sure. It's been a long time that Pep had something up his sleeve tactically when he took on equally great teams as the one he is managing. Vs. Barca last season (yeah, yeah, injuries, still no reason to concede from a goalkick Laughing), Real the season before and even his last clashes against Real in 11/12 (home loss and outplayed in the Copa) were hardly the work of someone who had the upper hand tactically.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Bankz on Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:36 pm

Even enrique took barca to a treble ffs, now if it were guardiola, everyone would be tripping at the tactical genius of winning with a possession based team and switching it to a direct, fast paced one when it mattered, exactly what enrique is crucified to no end for, or how he made MSN unstopable by his visionary south american purchaces, for instance they would say neymars 95th min goal against bayern in the first leg was all planed out by pep, infact people would even go as far as saying that it was pep who gave birth to neymars insane of the ball movement by his superior where/when to be tactics. One more thing people easily overlook the fact that pep is vitually aweful at transfers. No single transfer insight or vision.


Last edited by Bankz on Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by V on Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:43 pm

Would they, though?
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by jibers on Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:23 am

@Bankz wrote:Even enrique took barca to a treble ffs, now if it were guardiola, everyone would be tripping at the tactical genius of winning with a possession based team and switching it to a direct, fast paced one when it mattered, exactly what enrique is crucified to no end for, or how he made MSN unstopable by his visionary south american purchaces, for instance they would say neymars 95th min goal against bayern in the first leg was all planed out by pep, infact people would even go as far as saying that it was pep who gave birth to neymars insane of the ball movement by his superior where/when to be tactics. One more thing people easily overlook the fact that pep is vitually aweful at transfers. No single transfer insight or vision.


I agree, Villa, Dani Alves, Pique, Mascherano were/are all massive flops.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Bankz on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:25 am

Mascherano was a flop under him and pique? Well, our squad wasnt known for their defensive abilities. Btw, ibra, eto'o (this alone makes him clueless), sanchez, fabregas, lewandowski, alcantara (massively overated) yet, he couldn't see it even right under his nose.
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:42 am

Lewandowski is neither a Pep signing nor a flop lmao.

Getting Thiago remains among the biggest steals ever.

What is wrong with you?

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Kick on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:48 am

Every manager makes transfer mistakes, Pep isn't an exception, but he has also made some great deals.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Bankz on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:55 am

Lewandowski is his signing. U cant tell me bayern didnt ask for peps conscent before the deal was struck, afterall, pep signed months before he actually took over (its what i think tho).
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:03 am

@Bankz wrote:Lewandowski is his signing. U cant tell me bayern didnt ask for peps conscent before the deal was struck, afterall, pep signed months before he actually took over (its what i think tho).


Of course Pep gave his consent to the Lewa transfer. Why on earth wouldn't he?
But if you think Lewa is anywhere near a 'flop' I'm sorry I can't help you.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:16 am

The coaches influence on transfers at German clubs is mostly just that of having veto power. If he says he won't use a player if brought in, that player is obviously not bought, and he probably instructs the scouts as to what kind of player he wants. But the board and sporting director choose the pool of players as possible targets of acquisition that the coach then gets to choose from.

There is no Pep buying or selling anyone. Of course his voice is important when transfers are discussed, but I reckon KHR and Sammer count more.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:24 am

It's a collaboration, as it should be.

For example, it was clear we needed wingers/wide attackers this summer.
So options are scouted and discussed.

From what I read, Pep was the one pushing for signing Costa from a list of targets which included Felipe Anderson (who was allegedly favourited by Reschke and Sammer but not Pep).

So basically, in Costa's case Pep picked from a list assembled and the others agreed.
In other cases, like Bernat reportedly, or Rode (who was Sammer all the way), the initiative might come from other board members while Pep agrees or doesn't disagree.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by futbol on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:28 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:From what I read, Pep was the one pushing for signing Costa from a list of targets which included Felipe Anderson (who was allegedly favourited by Reschke and Sammer but not Pep).
Are you trying to say that Anderson was a distant second on Pep's wishlist?

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:29 am

@futbol wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:From what I read, Pep was the one pushing for signing Costa from a list of targets which included Felipe Anderson (who was allegedly favourited by Reschke and Sammer but not Pep).
Are you trying to say that Anderson was a distant second on Pep's wishlist?
I guess he indeed was Laughing

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by jibers on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:07 pm

@Bankz wrote:Mascherano was a flop under him and pique? Well, our squad wasnt known for their defensive abilities. Btw, ibra, eto'o (this alone makes him clueless), sanchez, fabregas, lewandowski, alcantara (massively overated) yet, he couldn't see it even right under his nose.
Yea, because Barcelona in 2010/11 don't have the record for least goals conceded in a La Liga season since the 1930s, despite not playing their full team in the last 4 games because they had sealed the league. The same number Enriques 'amazing' defensive team conceded despite playing their full strength team in nearly all games.

I don't get your second point. Lewa and Thiago are flops? What?

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by S on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:19 pm

As far as I know, at Bayern, Pep only specifically requested for Thiago.

None of Götze, Lewa, Vidal, Coman, Benatia were 'his' signings.

Bayern board make most of the decisions as far as the transfer market is concerned.

Bet Zlatan wasn't Pep's idea either.It's well documented that Laporta maintains great relations with Raiola.
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:38 pm

Yeah it goes like this.
Pep: "I want Nerman".
Board: "Why?"
Pep: "Because I need this versatile super-competent fast attacker."
Board: "You can have Götze."
Pep: "But I wanted Nerman."
Board: "You want a forward, Götze is a forward. Do you not want a forward?"
Pep: "I do want a forward."
Götze signed, is a great signing, but probably would've gotten cut more slack by Pep had he been Nerman. That's when it doesn't go super well.

Now replace the Götze signing with the Vidal signing and you have one that worked out perfectly.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 pm

The thing is, why do you claim Götze isn't 'cut slack' by Pep?

Götze got his chances. He just hasn't really taken them. He still wasn't bad, and he still gets games.

Are you seriously suggesting Götze should start over other attackers? Over Müller? Lewandowsi?

Now you can blame this on Pep's tactics or football, or whatever.

But then you propagate the notion that Bayern should have kept Jupp or at least his 4-2-3-1.

So let's run this through, Götze joins and we keep our 4-2-3-1.

We have a fit Robben, Ribery, Müller and Kroos.

As it is, Jupp had to decide for 3 of those four, helped only by the fact Kroos got injured in 2013 against Juve. Before, Kroos played 10 with Müller on the right, Robben on the bench after his injury.

Who would Götze have replaced under Jupp? Ribery? Kroos? Müller? Robben? You'd have Götze as starter and TWO of Ribery, Kroos, Müller, Robben on the bench?
Would you want Götze to start instead of Mandzukic in that setup?

That's the thing that always annoys me about the people blaming Pep. It doesn't make sense.

In fact, with the 4-1-4-1 in his first season Pep MADE SPACE for another attacking midfielder.
And he actually played Götze as a striker a few times. But then you clamour that he ostracizes a good old fashioned attacker work horse like Mandzukic. And so on.

Fact is, we have too many top players for a fixed first eleven. Any coach would have the same problem, and you can't tell me other coaches would be more flexible in dealing with it.
If you cry Götze should start, tell me who should sit out.
Of course, Kroos shuld have been kept too, Gustavo should have been kept, Mandzukic. Schweini should have been kept. All of them should always start, because else Pep isn't getting the best out of them.
It's not possible.

In fact, Pep tailors his formations to cater to the needs and attributes of our players all the time.
Alaba a left back who sees himself as a midfielder? Voila, Pep designs a hybrid position where he is both.
Etc.

Götze wasn't convincing enough to be an out and out starter.
PERIOD.


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by jibers on Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:08 pm

It's still Peps fault (:


Last edited by rwo power on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : If you reply to a post above yours, a fullquote is not necessary *snip* - rwo)

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:08 pm

Take a breath, I just mean what I wrote. Götze isn't being ostracized or anything, but he isn't getting a lot of leeway as well. I just meant if he was the super-special signing Pep had always wanted, he'd probably start more.

Not saying he's being treated especially bad.

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:31 pm

Yeah sure.

I laid out my theory earlier that our board might even have conned Götze into signing by telling him the Wunschspieler fairy tale.

But then I don't think Pep had a hard time understanding why Neymar wasn't feasible. Pretty sure he knows all about Rossell's corrupt ties to Brazil.

Also this court case around the Neymar transfered revealed that Bayern had actually bid for Neymar, so it's not like we didn't try at all.

I'd just add that if Götze had performed in a way that was screaming for a starting place, he'd have one, special dream signing or not.

And I'd really take the opportunity to ask your judgement, whether you think Götze would have had it easier to succeed under Jupp and his system. I gave you the reasons why I don't think this at all.

Also, we both know the elephant in the room so I'd like to post a video for contemplation, of Bayern against a certain 'Eintracht', starring a certain 'Thiago' Proud

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mglk3_baymun-einfra_sport


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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by S on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:36 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Take a breath, I just mean what I wrote. Götze isn't being ostracized or anything, but he isn't getting a lot of leeway as well. I just meant if he was the super-special signing Pep had always wanted, he'd probably start more.

Not saying he's being treated especially bad.
What you described is hypothetical though.You were just desperately looking for a reason to bash Pep :coffee:

Giving Gotze a €12m salary was one of the mistakes from Bayern board.Hasn't proved he's worth the hype at Bayern.

Even the legendary Lothar Mathaus thinks he isn't champion material. Smile
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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:56 pm

@S wrote: Lothar Mathaus thinks

That's a bit of a stretch hmm
Spoiler:
actually Loddar isn't at all as stupid as he comes across, regarding football matters at least; still as a pundit now he's contractually obligated to talk a lot of bullshit

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Re: Pep Guardiola appreciation thread

Post by VivaStPauli on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:02 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Yeah sure.

I laid out my theory earlier that our board might even have conned Götze into signing by telling him the Wunschspieler fairy tale.

And I 100% agree with that theory.

I'd just add that if Götze had performed in a way that was screaming for a starting place, he'd have one, special dream signing or not.
True. Though you could also argue that Pep could make more of an effort to give Götze the feeling he's being trusted and supported, though on the other hand why do that if you can just replace him.

And I'd really take the opportunity to ask your judgement, whether you think Götze would have had it easier to succeed under Jupp and his system.
Only as soon as Kroos left, who had Götzes position locked down under Jupp.

Also, we both know the elephant in the room so I'd like to post a video for contemplation, of Bayern against a certain 'Eintracht', starring a certain 'Thiago' Proud

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mglk3_baymun-einfra_sport



Well... Err... You shut up!

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