Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by free_cat on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:20 am

On the other hand Flopolski is quietly going where he was bound to: the bench.

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by RealGunner on Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:30 am

Cazorla is fantastic but he is having a similar season as Silva did in his first year or Mata. Don't blame him honestly.

He will be more consistent next season
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by AnJl on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:10 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
While you keep yammering about how people are biased towards Wilshere and Walcott (Seriously?), you on the other hand just love putting down everything that is British.
That's unfair. I'd say he loves promoting la liga players (or more technical ones) which is not the equivalent of putting down english players, even though it might lead to similar comments.

Huge difference from what you are saying and what he has been going on about in this thread.

If say he said 'Cazorla deserves the same recognition and praise as Jack Wilshere' or the like, then I agree (to an extent - look at my first post)

But instead he is not giving enough credit to Wilshere's performances. He is blindly promoting la liga players without giving the same credit that Wilshere deserves and basically doing his best Kanye West impression.

'Im really happy for you
Imma let you finish
But Cazorla is having one of his best seasons of all time' (not exactly his words, but you get what I am saying)

I am hundred percent sure that if Wilshere was Spanish, Dnamc would be doing backflips and licking his arse to oblivion.

Oh, and just to clear the air. I am only talking about Wilshere and Cazorla, Walcott isnt par of this conversation.

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Dnmac4 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:14 am

@AnJl wrote:Dnamc

While you keep yammering about how people are biased towards Wilshere and Walcott (Seriously?), you on the other hand just love putting down everything that is British.

Both have been having good seasons. Difference is, Cazorla started emphatically then due to various reasons, including being played nearly every game, he started missing in games, or rather he didnt seem to put in the performances that we thought we would see more routinely. Wilshere on the other hand started off slowly since coming back from injury and has just picked up ever since.

Difference is, even if Jack doesnt put in a good performance technically, he will cover it up with tenacity and determination while just about everyone else in an Arsenal shirt decide to crawl back into their shells.

No one is downgrading Cazorla and I am sure we would rather see Cazorla in the first team lineup than most of the other guys. But when I see Cazorla on the pitch, I have not seen the same player that had people drooling at the start of the season since November, bar the odd performance here and there.

I dont know about others, but you cant call Arsenal fans biased because we see the crap that goes on the pitch everytime, so we have a better idea of who is doing well for Arsenal and who isnt.

And btw, you are the one who started derailing the thread in your first post when you brought Jack into the picture (let us not even TALK about Walcott)

So, I find it insulting that you can appreciate Cazorla's performance but consider Jack's performance not upto your biased standards.

(Dont you pull technicalities with me 'Oh, but I didnt say it like that. Did I say this?' Everyone clearly knows what you meant)

It's not a bias on my part, I think I'm the only one thinking rationally about the players on Arsenal.

One fan said something I couldn't agree more with about Wilshire being young and will gain more consistency and end product. I hope he does, but just because he has a lot of room to grow and is young doesn't mean he's a big game player or better then Cazorla RIGHT NOW.

I think a lot of you are being fooled by potential. Wilshire is a good player between the boxes but has below par end product.

A good comparison is Yaya Toure's goal today vs Chelsea. That is a good big game player and a big game goal. Both play similar positions and get the ball in similar areas but Wilshire doesn't have that crucial goal/defense splitting pass or end product to his game which is what makes players great in big games.

People can downplay by saying, "oh there's Dnmac4 and his Stats again" but stats do tell the truth when they are so heavy to one side.

Especially when people are down playing what Cazorla is doing calling him inconsistent then what the heck is Wilshire. According to most of you guys he's great and a great big game player and could start for any team in the world bar Munich and Barca. Do you see where I'm coming from?

I think Cazorla and Wilshire/Walcott are being held to insanely different standards.

If you want to say Wilshire WILL BE a great player I may disagree but wont say anything. When you crown him RIGHT NOW with no big game goals or really very few goals in any game for that matter that's where you guys are totally off your rocker especially when Cazorla is called inconsistent by almost every Arsenal fan on here and Wilshire is praised.

It's just wrong in so many different ways.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Dnmac4 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:22 am

And BTW, you never see me say anything negative about Wayne Rooney do you?

I have praised him over and over again and he is a real World Class player IMO that could walk into almost any team in the world. And I have said a million times on here I think he is still one of the most underrated players in the world.

So this whole bias some of you say I have towards English players is really not there. I have said John Terry has been a world class player, the same with Ashley Cole through out his career.

Which I believe is fair.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Jay29 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:54 am

While I agree that calling Wilshere a big game player is highly contentious point, I don't agree that goals in big games is the one true measure of a big game player, especially when you consider the position he plays. Whereas most of our players have been disappointing in the bigger games this season, Wilshere has turned up with a few good to very good performances.

It's not in Wilshere's game to provide assists or goals right now. He's the sort of player who opens up spaces for the providers and goalscorers with his runs on and off the ball and I think Cazorla has actually benefited from having this sort of player around. In our last two league games, it was Wilshere who played an important role in Cazorla's goals - his run from midfield against Sunderland, which started the attack that Cazorla finished, and his pass to Monreal for Cazorla's winner yesterday.

On his own, Cazorla is still a fantastic player, of course, capable of producing moments of quality in a game, but rather than compare him and his accomplishments with Wilshere, I prefer to think of them as a tandem; two players that compliment each other well and make each other look better.

As for Cazorla's season so far, it's been a very good one, albeit one that's gone a bit up and down. He's gone through periods where he's been fantastic, but, equally, has gone through periods where he's anonymous. Couple this with how Arsenal's season has gone in general and you'll find your explanation for why he, perhaps, doesn't get as much attention or praise or some may think he should be getting.

Don't think we don't appreciate what he's doing this season, though.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by julias on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:22 pm

For once dnmac I actually agree with you, however we didn't steal him from Malaga they sold him to us.

It's not our fault they can't get their books in order Very Happy

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Dnmac4 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:11 pm

@julias wrote:For once dnmac I actually agree with you, however we didn't steal him from Malaga they sold him to us.

It's not our fault they can't get their books in order Very Happy

Oh I know, I praised the move when it happened. I thought you guys held back when you could have jumped on Mata on the cheap but you didn't make the same mistake twice.

It was a great purchase especially as it seems Santi is in the prime of his career.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Peccadillo on Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:35 pm

comparing Wilshere and Cazorla is just idiocy, imo.
They are two different players. Jack's role requires consistency, Cazorla plays a far more attacking role that is inherently going to make his performances more inconsistent than Jacks. As with (as someone mentioned, your Silva's, Mata's, Nani's - These are players judged on their proficiency in the final third where there is ALWAYS an element of hit and miss.

They play two different roles so we judge them on very different qualities. So why try to compare? Cazorla is technically superior, two of the best feet in Europe. Lets hope Jack can learn from him and progress into the beast of a player we all know he has the potential to be.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Chumlum on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:57 am

Cazorla is a total boss and I love this player. It's true he's been anonymous in games or patches here and there, but I shudder to think what shape Arsenal would be in this season without him. A lot of that anonymity has major mitigating factors - new league without a winter break where he starts more often than anyone else, playing for a club whose tactical and mental identity is utterly schizoid. And despite it, as dnmac says, Cazorla is still putting up great numbers. And playing beautiful football as well. I adore this guy's positivity, technique, and workrate. If I were Football Manager God and had the shady oligarch money to just rebuild the heck out of this squad, I would keep Cazorla right where he is.

(On Wilshere ... he is, or has become, a talismanic, lead-by-example type. It speaks volumes for his mentality that he's assumed this role naturally when the departures of Cesc and RvP have thrust this kind of unofficial captaincy on him so early. So he's important to Arsenal in a way that can't be statistically measured. But while I love Jack too and think he will develop into a "top top top quality" midfielder on all fronts one day, I do think he's sometimes praised too highly too soon because Arsenal/England fans already like him & his game so much. His influence and what he brings to the team are huge; but not all facets of his game are polished yet. Give him time, he'll come good in the areas where he's still lacking. Ramsey too IMO.)
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by DuringTheWar on Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:07 pm

Wilshere praised too much? Honestly, having been on redcafe recently, I think utd fans rate wilshere more than arsenal fans

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Wilson37 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:17 am

Dont use the goal/assist stats for comparing Cazorla and Wilshere.. Wilshere is playing a deeper role and those watching Arsenal regularly know how many of his through balls and passes to the flanks have resulted in goals.. Cazorla was unstoppable in the first two months.. But then he has not been consistent.. He often gets marked out of the game.. Most of his good performances have come against teams with weaker defences and who play an open game.. He has not looked as impressive against teams who press hard and mark him.. But Wilshere is capable of carrying the team forward by himself against any top quailty opposition.. if he was playing in the advanced midfield role in more matches, I am sure he would have had a similar good goal/assist tally.. So Cazorla has not yet returned to the form he has shown in the first 2 months.. And he has had an awesome debut season..
But without doubt the most influential and vital member for the current Arsenal squads performance is Wilshere...

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by RealGunner on Tue May 14, 2013 2:17 pm

Cazorla is Absolutely unreal. Magnificent player. I was so stupid to be harsh on him in his first season.

Assisted ALL FOUR assists for Arsenal just now.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Lex on Tue May 14, 2013 2:18 pm

Against the FA cup winners, too :bow:

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Zealous on Tue May 14, 2013 2:34 pm

Great player (any La Liga watcher could have told you this lol)

Tonight though was more about Wigan's collapse at the back though. (Scharner once again costing the team silly goals)

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Eman on Tue May 14, 2013 2:42 pm

@Zealous wrote:Great player (any La Liga watcher could have told you this lol)

Tonight though was more about Wigan's collapse at the back though. (Scharner once again costing the team silly goals)
Scharner is an Arsenal fan. The double agent :bow:

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Gil on Tue May 14, 2013 2:47 pm

Destroys a relegated team. Unreal player.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by RealGunner on Tue May 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Same team that won the FA Cup.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Gil on Tue May 14, 2013 2:51 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Same team that won the FA Cup.

Off of pure luck. They're utter shit lol.

Look at how many goals they've conceded this year.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by RealGunner on Tue May 14, 2013 2:52 pm

Luck ? Guess you didn't see the match.

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Eman on Tue May 14, 2013 2:52 pm

@Gil wrote:Destroys a relegated team. Unreal player.
Still better than everybody on Man City by that logic :coffee:

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Zealous on Tue May 14, 2013 2:52 pm

More trophies than middle class poverty club Arsenal Proud

@Gil wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Same team that won the FA Cup.

Off of pure luck. They're utter shit lol.

Look at how many goals they've conceded this year.

They play better stuff than Chelsea on their day. Their problem is too many average players at the back and of course the injuries they've had.

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by VendettaRed07 on Tue May 14, 2013 2:53 pm

@Gil wrote:Destroys a relegated team. Unreal player.
They are only relegated because he destroyed them

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by RealGunner on Tue May 14, 2013 2:53 pm

Gil is just mad Cazorla is better than mata lol.
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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by DuringTheWar on Tue May 14, 2013 3:01 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Gil is just mad Cazorla is better than mata lol.

No he isn't. I think cazorla is sublime against average teams but is a let down against the better teams. It must be why he hasn't done much at the top level with his career considering his age. He has great talent but can't dominate at the top. That seems to be the pattern over his career not just this season

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Re: Cazorla is Quietly putting together an excellent season

Post by Gil on Tue May 14, 2013 3:16 pm

Lol at the hipsters. They're in a relegation battle every damn year. They're a terrible side and deserved to go down.


As for Cazorla unreal against midtable/relegation threatened clubs underwhelming in the big games. Not surprised he destroyed Wigan.
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