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Post by EarlyPrototype on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:04 pm

What makes you think Canales will play CM? he won't plus we have Kheidra who will rotate with Sahin assuming that we play 4231.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:12 pm

because he did it alot last season and he excelled at it

sahin=/= khedira thank you very much for the insult

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:15 pm

4231!

Alonso and Sahin will start and Khedira will rotate with Sahin not Canales. Simple.
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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:20 pm

sahin is a centre mid, i havent yet figured out what khedira is, a box-to-box or a DM??? cant do either tbh

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:23 pm

Both Sahin and Khedira are CMs, the difference is in the role they play.
-sahin is a deep lying playmaker
-khedira is a box to box

both defend very well.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:29 pm

so khedira has been trying to play CM for the past season, strange i didnt catch that, he cant attack to save his mummy's life and sahin cant defend, our DM is alonso we dont need anymore than that unless youre happy with us playing dfensive

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:34 pm

he has always been playing as a CM, acting like a box to box, running back and forth, trying to help the defense and the attack as much as he can. he is in a support role more than anything and use tactical positionning to add number at all times.

wow dude, you are off your game, Sahin is an excellent defender for his role.


Last edited by St_Nick09_of_Goal on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:43 pm

Jesé Rodríguez will travel with the team to the U.S. for their summer tour!!!

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:45 pm

^^ Halamadrid posted that hours ago Smile.
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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:46 pm

@EarlyPrototype wrote:^^ Halamadrid posted that hours ago Smile.

lol didn't see I havn't been on for hours!

Exciting though, hope he dominates and destroys all!

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Post by EarlyPrototype on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Yeh will make the preseason even more relishing Twisted Evil
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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:10 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:he has always been playing as a CM, acting like a box to box, running back and forth, trying to help the defense and the attack as much as he can. he is in a support role more than anything and use tactical positionning to add number at all times.

wow dude, you are off your game, Sahin is an excellent defender for his role.


Really not sure if i caught that, because his role has been very blurred to me, he always gets in the way of Alonso and can only look good when someone else does the hardwork for him for example pepe vs farca, attacking is like a foreign word for him lol

And cmmon sahin has never been able to defend ffs, omg thats so obvious,

i love how you just forget how easy it was for fabinao to just cut the midfield apiece on multiple occasions most notably when romaric scored during the el game(dont tell me "ohh it was only once" b/c ill name you more), and we are talking about sevilla in crisis here

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:31 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:
St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:he has always been playing as a CM, acting like a box to box, running back and forth, trying to help the defense and the attack as much as he can. he is in a support role more than anything and use tactical positionning to add number at all times.

wow dude, you are off your game, Sahin is an excellent defender for his role.


Really not sure if i caught that, because his role has been very blurred to me, he always gets in the way of Alonso and can only look good when someone else does the hardwork for him for example pepe vs farca, attacking is like a foreign word for him lol

And cmmon sahin has never been able to defend ffs, omg thats so obvious,

i love how you just forget how easy it was for fabinao to just cut the midfield apiece when romaric scored during the el game(dont tell me "ohh it was only once" b/c ill name you more), and we are talking about sevilla in crisis here
Mourinho has always used Khedira in a box to box role next to Alonso, who likes to stay as deep as possible, while Khedira does most of the running. How exactly does he get in the way of Alonso? Alonso cant run with the ball going upfield, Khedira is supposed to be trying to do that.

Just stunning the examples you use, really. Pepe was moved out of the defense to mark messi and to act like a DM enforcer/destroyer, which means he goes after the ball carrier aggressively, play hard and win the ball back. Is that in the skill set of Khedira? Not necessarily, dont misunderstand the role and skills of a player and blame him for what he cant do, that's not his game, he isnt a defensive midfidelder destroyer. But of course you forget the fantastic job he did on Iniesta.

I'm gonna to ask you to define attacking here, because you keep on using vague expressions to push some theories. So what exactly do you mean by attacking when you describe Khedira?

I think i have watched enough Bundesliga games to affirm that Shain is a very good defender. He uses positioning, anticipation and intelligence to defend. He said he is a very good defender for his role, as a CM he defends very well. His job isnt to stay in front of the defense to sweep the attacks away like M'vila.

PLease do name more games, im curious. But i know for a fact that a player is rated on his defending over the course of the season. It's incredibly misguiding for you to use one game to assert that he isnt a good defender. I can dig up games in which Cambiasso, Essien, Makelele, Van Bommel etc.., all natural DM, let teams pierce through the midfield and score goals. No one will call them bad defenders for that. But please do name more games.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:54 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
Mourinho has always used Khedira in a box to box role next to Alonso, who likes to stay as deep as possible, while Khedira does most of the running. How exactly does he get in the way of Alonso? Alonso cant run with the ball going upfield, Khedira is supposed to be trying to do that. (Khedira attacks as much as Alonso mate, and those occasional anomalous when he happens to find himself near the opponents box after a corner he is clueless with the ball, never seen him cross, one defense splitting pass, and a couple of nanny shots is all ive seen him do when attacking lol)

Just stunning the examples you use, really. Pepe was moved out of the defense to mark messi and to act like a DM enforcer/destroyer, which means he goes after the ball carrier aggressively, play hard and win the ball back. Is that in the skill set of Khedira? Not necessarily, dont misunderstand the role and skills of a player and blame him for what he cant do, that's not his game, he isnt a defensive midfidelder destroyer. But of course you forget the fantastic job he did on Iniesta. (Ok, so people called us defensive because?? Eh um eh khedira was supposed to attack but oh wait he was running around chasing what b/c pepe was doing all the hardwork of stopping both xavi and messi AND doing the attacking work for big fat khedira, khedria tried to do that in the bernabau and failed miserably which forced mou to sub in lass haha hilarious how you try to defend him, and what exactly did he do to iniesta my friend because i saw him(iniesta) near or box all the time ffs he was their most threatening player and you tell me khedira kept him quiet smh)

I'm gonna to ask you to define attacking here, because you keep on using vague expressions to push some theories. So what exactly do you mean by attacking when you describe Khedira?(Attacking=remotedly try and move yourself or the ball forward, tell me exactly how khedria has achieved this barring the occasional anomalies)

I think i have watched enough Bundesliga games to affirm that Shain is a very good defender. He uses positioning, anticipation and intelligence to defend. He said he is a very good defender for his role, as a CM he defends very well. His job isnt to stay in front of the defense to sweep the attacks away like M'vila. (Cant wait to prove you wrong, gonna bookmark this thread when he is subbed out due to his inability to defend)(Even cr7 has got all those featured you said ffs(and we can all agree he is a hopless defender))

PLease do name more games, im curious. But i know for a fact that a player is rated on his defending over the course of the season. It's incredibly misguiding for you to use one game to assert that he isnt a good defender. I can dig up games in which Cambiasso, Essien, Makelele, Van Bommel etc.., all natural DM, let teams pierce through the midfield and score goals. No one will call them bad defenders for that. But please do name more games.

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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:08 pm


Xabi Alonso will surely be the man to play alongside Sahin in defensive centre midfield and Alonso’s defensive stats are as impressive as his distribution; 3.2 Tackles and 2.8 Interceptions per game, combined with 1.62 Key Passes and an 85% Pass Accuracy saw the Spaniard pick up 6 Assists last term and perhaps set the standard for Mourinho’s “double pivot” requirements.

Alongside Alonso, new signing Sami Khedira failed to shine; just 1.9 Tackles and 2.1 Interceptions, with 0.88 Key Passes and 1 Assist is not in the least eye-catching. Lassana Diarra, the other alternative, fared better defensively (3.5 Tackles and 1.8 Interceptions) but like Khedira, lacked in creativity in comparison to Alonso, managing just 0.65 Key Passes per game.

Sahin, on the other hand, is more like Alonso; both destroyer and creator. His 3.8 Tackles and 2.2 Interceptions is superior to either Khedira or Diarra but, most importantly, his creativity is streets ahead; 3.47 Key Passes per game (while boosted by his set-piece duties) clearly shows Sahin’s eye for a pass and demonstrates the extra qualities Madrid’s midfield will possess with him on board.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:13 pm

Khedira isnt a playmaker, and he doest go as high as the AM for tactical reasons. HI job when attacking is to make sure that the ball can transition horizontally, he is always tryng to be the supporting passing option. Is he dribbling with the football and organizing the game from deep, surely not.
We have forwards who didnt grasp the concept of defending very well, so he had to maintain tactical discipline in the middle of the park, all in the confine of his game. that doesnt put him in the way of alonso, and we know he can do better and improve, he is supposed to be find himself occasionally in front of the opposing, and he very often makes runs in the box to be available for crosses (Tottenham). Why do you except him to be crossing the ball? he has no business being on the wings, and we dont play hoof the ball tactics to the extent that we are expecting high balls from deep inside the box, our forwards arent good with their head.

People call us defensive because we relinquished trying to hold the ball and build up attacks, and turned to a straight counter attacking game, and deep defending inside our halves. It's not because Khedira was on the pitch that we were defensive. Khedira did a great job defending Iniesta, but no matter what you do, you will never completely stop a team that has 70% of possession, they will always look good. I said he did a great job defending and disrupting the lines of passing in the midfield and marking Iniesta, never said he kept him quiet, would you please not invent stuff i didnt say. Whenever Khedira played, our outlook in the midfield was good, we saw just how much he was missed in the CL game.

Please do bookmark this thread, if you are expecting him to beat out the opposing midfield alone then you have no clue what he does defensively. None of our midfielders can keep the opposing team quiet, that's the design of our double pivot. But of course, whenever he does a great job i wont bump up this discussion of course, it's only when a player fails that it's good to stir up the sh*t hidden in the closet.


Last edited by St_Nick09_of_Goal on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by S32TABLANCA on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:15 pm

For the 4-2-3-1, we basically need two Alonsos as the double pivot. Now, we have them. Xabi can be the more defensive partner, while Sahin is the more offensive one. Destroyer-Creator, if you want to say it like that, but Lass is more like a destroyer to me. Khedira is a very capable backup and rotation player.

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Post by Guest on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:15 pm

I think I proved Sahin is just as if not more so defensive than anyone we have in midfield atm

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Post by S32TABLANCA on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:20 pm

@Crimson wrote:I think I proved Sahin is just as if not more so defensive than anyone we have in midfield atm

Stats arent everything, its impossible to argue that Sahin is more defensive than Alonso. I mean, even tactically Sahin goes higher.
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Post by alex mahone on Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:29 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:(Ok, so people called us defensive because?? Eh um eh khedira was supposed to attack but oh wait he was running around chasing what b/c pepe was doing all the hardwork of stopping both xavi and messi AND doing the attacking work for big fat khedira, khedria tried to do that in the bernabau and failed miserably which forced mou to sub in lass haha hilarious how you try to defend him, and what exactly did he do to iniesta my friend because i saw him(iniesta) near or box all the time ffs he was their most threatening player and you tell me khedira kept him quiet smh)


When did mou sub in lass in bernabau anyway?
Lass didn't play at all in la liga clasico home, he also didn't play at all in copa del ray
Then because khedira's injured, lass did play in clasico CL home from minutes 1 to the end (not as sub)
And imo we were so much better when khedira was played (la liga clasico home and copa del ray) rather than without him (CL)
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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:06 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Khedira isnt a playmaker, and he doest go as high as the AM for tactical reasons. HI job when attacking is to make sure that the ball can transition horizontally, he is always tryng to be the supporting passing option. Is he dribbling with the football and organizing the game from deep, surely not. ( i thought he was a box-to-box, now could YOU give me a definition of that??)
We have forwards who didnt grasp the concept of defending very well,(yet they do their main job very effectively, khedira on the other hand, lol just lol) so he had to maintain tactical discipline in the middle of the park, all in the confine of his game.(tactical discipline by doing what exactly just standing there and running abit to increase his KM run lol) that doesnt put him in the way of Alonso(it does actually b/c Alonso tries to do things he cant which then makes him worn out and he commits silly fouls as a result), and we know he can do better and improve(gago V2.0?? wouldn’t wanna try bro, he has already started with the injuries, now he has to do it consistently to put himself in the same league), he is supposed to be find himself occasionally in front of the opposing(yet does he?? Nopp look at what lass does thats what you call attack and defend), and he very often makes runs in the box to be available for crosses (Tottenham)(id love you to give me other games as well, you can use espns heat map if needed be). Why do you except him to be crossing the ball?(an occasional cross wouldn’t hurt, especially since we had Ade playing up top No??, i even saw albitroll do it ffs) he has no business being on the wings,(so he has a spot assigned for him with his name on like a bubble or something, i am sure i saw pepe on the wings on lots of occasions hmmm) and we dont play hoof the ball tactics to the extent that we are expecting high balls from deep inside the box,(not expecting that either, lass never used to hoof but he still crossed the ball, how come?)) our forwards arent good with their head.(mm ok so ade isn’t, oh i get it)

People call us defensive because we relinquished trying to hold the ball and build up attacks, and turned to a straight counter attacking game, and deep defending inside our halves.(Dimaria attacked, pepe did the same and so did Marcelo. Alonso had to distribute the ball from deep to both wings, what job was assigned to khedira??.... complete the line-up i guess)) It's not because Khedira was on the pitch that we were defensive.(well what do you expect from the apparent box-to-box midfielder *rolleyes*) Khedira did a great job defending Iniesta(nopp he didn’t ramos and albiol/arbeloa had to handle him, villa and pedro all the time, khedira was nowhere to be seen unfortunately), but no matter what you do, you will never completely stop a team that has 70% of possession,(thats exactly what we did, bro, whats with this gago style, we stopped them and a half) they will always look good.(yet at the same time they looked garbage, what game where you watching???) I said he did a great job defending and disrupting the lines of passing in the midfield and marking Iniesta,(again pepe and Alonso defended and Alonso was distributing passes around the mid and ramos and co where marking iniesta) never said he kept him quiet,(b/c he wasn’t near him lol) would you please not invent stuff i didnt say. Whenever Khedira played, our outlook in the midfield was good, we saw just how much he was missed in the CL game.(huh?? He wasn’t missed one bit mate, we would have conceded another five had he played in the first leg, with no pepe around him mind you)

Please do bookmark this thread, if you are expecting him to beat out the opposing midfield alone then you have no clue what he does defensively. None of our midfielders can keep the opposing team quiet,(pepe says a massive HELLO) that's the design of our double pivot.( nopp not at all) But of course, whenever he does a great job i wont bump up this discussion of course,(against a big team?? Well go on, i am not gonna stop you. Infact i think he is a great player but his defensive game is a bit suspect thats all) it's only when a player fails that it's good to stir up the sh*t hidden in the closet.( if good, a whole new thread would be made lol, so that makes it equal i guess)

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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:09 pm

@alex mahone wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:(Ok, so people called us defensive because?? Eh um eh khedira was supposed to attack but oh wait he was running around chasing what b/c pepe was doing all the hardwork of stopping both xavi and messi AND doing the attacking work for big fat khedira, khedria tried to do that in the bernabau and failed miserably which forced mou to sub in lass haha hilarious how you try to defend him, and what exactly did he do to iniesta my friend because i saw him(iniesta) near or box all the time ffs he was their most threatening player and you tell me khedira kept him quiet smh)


When did mou sub in lass in bernabau anyway?
Lass didn't play at all in la liga clasico home, he also didn't play at all in copa del ray
Then because khedira's injured, lass did play in clasico CL home from minutes 1 to the end (not as sub)
And imo we were so much better when khedira was played (la liga clasico home and copa del ray) rather than without him (CL)


typo from my side, i meant to say in the camp nou
and even if i did say it wrong, you could’ve figured it out yourself since it only happened once during the season
and our home game in the league was much worse than the first leg in the cl lol

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:29 pm

A box to box CM is a high activity player that goes from one half of the pitch to the other relentlessly for 90mn, his job is to support the attack and help the defense, both the same during the game. All B2B Cms dont have the same skillset, it just happens that Khedira excels tactically and does his best job off the ball. A player that you wont see at all times with the ball but who is actually doing a tremendous job, always unappreciated.

It's funny you question things such as tactical discipline, the role of a B2B, etc... the simple fact that you expect him to be playmaking highlights the fact that you have no idea what his job on the pitch is, and instead of asking to learn more, you criticize blindly. you should be blaming your own football knowledge which is lacking in this instance; doent take a genius to figure that Khedira isnt a playmaker, and the role he plays doesnt ask him to playmake by design, yet here you are asking questions... I'm not even surprised you notice Lass rawer style on the pitch.

Not wasting my time arguing with you, the stuff you write is quite shameful and more akin to a fanboyish attitude. I just need to take a look at the stuff you write about gago.. have fun with yourself.





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Post by the xcx on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:33 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:
@alex mahone wrote:
@halamadrid2 wrote:(Ok, so people called us defensive because?? Eh um eh khedira was supposed to attack but oh wait he was running around chasing what b/c pepe was doing all the hardwork of stopping both xavi and messi AND doing the attacking work for big fat khedira, khedria tried to do that in the bernabau and failed miserably which forced mou to sub in lass haha hilarious how you try to defend him, and what exactly did he do to iniesta my friend because i saw him(iniesta) near or box all the time ffs he was their most threatening player and you tell me khedira kept him quiet smh)


When did mou sub in lass in bernabau anyway?
Lass didn't play at all in la liga clasico home, he also didn't play at all in copa del ray
Then because khedira's injured, lass did play in clasico CL home from minutes 1 to the end (not as sub)
And imo we were so much better when khedira was played (la liga clasico home and copa del ray) rather than without him (CL)


typo from my side, i meant to say in the camp nou
and even if i did say it wrong, you could’ve figured it out yourself since it only happened once during the season
and our home game in the league was much worse than the first leg in the cl lol
Now if you mention it, has Khedira actually been dissapointing this season?
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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:36 pm

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:A box to box CM is a high activity player that goes from one half of the pitch to the other relentlessly for 90mn, his job is to support the attack and help the defense, both the same during the game. All B2B Cms dont have the same skillset, it just happens that Khedira excels tactically and does his best job off the ball.(then i wouldnt put box-to-box next to his name sorry) A player that you wont see at all times with the ball but who is actually doing a tremendous job, always unappreciated.

It's funny you question things such as tactical discipline, the role of a B2B, etc... the simple fact that you expect him to be playmaking highlights the fact that you have no idea what his job on the pitch is,(is it defending?? or watching while doing a 90 min jog around?)) and instead of asking to learn more, you criticize blindly. you should be blaming your own football knowledge which is lacking in this instance;(lol, get the personal attacks coming kid) doent take a genius to figure that Khedira isnt a playmaker, and the role he plays doesnt ask him to playmake by design, yet here you are asking questions(what F!cking role does he play he doesnt attack he doesnt defend not even zonal marking what job is friggin assigned to him ffs, not to mention he is slower than a snail lol)... I'm not even surprised you notice Lass rawer style on the pitch. (at least he tries and everyones notices it, unlike a certain someone)

Not wasting my time arguing with you, the stuff you write is quite shameful and more akin to a fanboyish attitude. I just need to take a look at the stuff you write about gago.. have fun with yourself.(you could never actually be firm with your arguments always trying to skew it everytime time you reply, good for you i guess, keep on dreaming about signing another starting line-up bro, thats all i am saying whatever happened to kun lmfao)





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Post by EarlyPrototype on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:39 pm

HalaMadrid I think you are being a bit harsh on Khedira. Khedira is great at putting pressure on the opponents and he closes them down which makes it easier for players like Alonso to come in for the tackle. He also pushes up giving defenders a harder time to defend given that there is one more man to deal with and obviously he comes back to support the defense.


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Castilla Thread - Page 6 Empty Re: Castilla Thread

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