Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by danyjr on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:45 pm

Coaches are not all about tactics...they also bring confidence and psychological factors. You don't have to look further than your own coach to see it.

Denying a coach's effect on a team's performance is stupid and you're doing it to feel better about yourself.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Franchise on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:11 pm

As I said, anyone who saw Barca pre Roura and post can see the difference. As I said, I still believe toat least some degree people are questioning this obvious thing to not have their wins tainted.

Tactics are clearly the main culpruit, if you cant see that than I dont know what to tell you.

If you cant see how players are not doing the things they are supposed to be doing, as in amount of touches taken, how to escape presses, how to organise at the back...Guardiola would never allowed such disorganisation, and Tito didnt look like he was either.

No big games?

Its irrelevant, we arent struggling because of "big games"..we are struggling because we are not following our game plan at all, good or bad teams and naturally the better teams have a higher chance to punish us because if it.

And besides, Tito already beat you in his first game, he beat Valencia with a clean sheet, he beat Sevilla away and he beat Benfica away with a clean sheet...Benfica a team who have not lost all season. I also believe he was there when we beat Atletico 3-1.

What could Tito do to avoid the Milan loss?

How about not playing Cesc and Iniesta together, perhaps the single biggest problem the team had which caused this loss of form and with it loss of confidence and mentality?

How about actually telling players, you need to stop taking 3, 4 touches on the ball every time and start moving it quicker...how about, identifying we are not moving the ball laterally and we are not offering any depth in attack.

Then on top of all that, the horrible lack of substitutions.

And thats just tactical, when you consider what danyjr said on top, its pretty clear what has happened here.
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by harhar11 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:09 pm

@Zealous wrote:Thanks for not calling me names Mole eco smile. Anyway I believe Barca were running through weaker teams when they were on their great winning streak. I don't think I'm wrong when I say they haven't won one truly big game this season so far.

Tito or not when squeaky bum time arrived Barca didn't look like the same team that started the season so strongly. It could be confidence, it could be motivational but I'm convinced that tactics aren't really the main culprit here.


With tito we defeated you 3-2, and it should have been by a bigger margin, we almost came back from being under with 2-0 with only 10 players, we were close to defeating you at nou camp etc. And in the 1-1 draw(was tito still there or had he already left?) If he was still there you can add that to the list in games where we were superior to Real Madrid.

Also, a friend told me that he read an article that said in half time against Sevilla ,when we were losing 1-0, Tito called to Roura to tell him to change the tactics and make some subs and it worked seeing as we won the game..

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by spanky on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:22 pm

Why Roura is out of his depth and Barcelona miss Guardiola

The interim coach is doing his best in Tito Vilanova's absence through illness but has been shown up by his methods in defeats against AC Milan and Real Madrid this last week

The transition was supposed to be seamless. As he left for a sabbatical in the summer, Pep Guardiola passed the baton over to assistant and friend Tito Vilanova on the Barcelona bench. Little would change, it seemed. But fast forward nine months - and everything has.

Pep expressed his concern at Tito taking over, citing his friend's health issues but wishing him the best. And sadly, he was right to be worried as Vilanova suffered a relapse of his cancer in December and was forced to take time out to seek treatment.

Barcelona sat in a strong position, with a healthy advantage over fierce rivals Real Madrid in La Liga, while the Catalans had also advanced to the semi-finals of the Copa del Rey and the last 16 of the Champions League. So the club opted for a smooth switch as Jordi Roura was appointed interim coach. It seemed a logical decision and was one which the players supported at the time.

But Barca's season has been turned upside down in the space of a week by a disappointing defeat at AC Milan last Wednesday which leaves their Champions League hopes hanging on a thread, and elimination at home to Madrid in the Copa del Rey on Tuesday. Now, not only to do they miss Tito, but the players must be pining for Pep as well.

It's not Roura's fault. The former forward was editing videos of Barcelona's rivals up until recently, while offering support to Vilanova as assistant coach. He has since been thrown in at the deep end - and he is struggling to keep his head above water.

BARCA'S NEXT THREE GAMES
Opponent
Competition Date
Real Madrid (a) La Liga 2/03
Deportivo (h) La Liga 9/03
AC Milan (h) C. League 12/03
Tactically, Barca have suffered. The Catalans were shown up by both Milan and Madrid, with Roura unable to offer any effective tactical change. Alexis Sanchez came on for Cesc Fabregas at San Siro, while David Villa replaced the midfielder on Tuesday, but it was too little, too late.

Roura claims Vilanova is still the man in charge and says he is in constant contact with Tito, yet neither man was able to address the team's deficiencies in those two big defeats. It is a worrying trend and the players appear confused by the lack of leadership.

In five matches against Madrid this term, Barcelona have won only once, and the club are concerned at the side's inability to perform in the bigger matches - even under Vilanova.

La Liga is different. Barca's superiority is such that they have continued to win matches in the Primera Division. But whereas Guardiola always corrected his players after games (even if they were comprehensive victories) and kept them on their toes with constant pressure, Vilanova and Roura have opted only to praise the team. That has led to a certain complacency and, in the toughest tests, the side has lost some of its competitive edge.

Vilanova's cool, calm approach made him the ideal sidekick to Pep, yet as the main man his motivational skills are less effective and he has yet to give his squad a serious dressing down since taking over in the summer.

Roura, meanwhile, lacks the authority to rant at his players, while team selections have been predictable, causing added relaxation; the interim coach has sent out the supposed 'strongest' side on too many occasions and failed to freshen up his line-up as Guardiola used to. Those on the sidelines, like David Villa, have barely featured and are now lacking in motivation, while those starting know they will be in the team. Guardiola, as well as rotating his squad to great effect, would demand more from his men every week, regardless of whether they had won by one, five, or six goals. That pursuit of perfection brought huge rewards.

Training sessions have also altered. Under Guardiola, the last session before a match saw the starting side face a team lining up exactly like the forthcoming rival; how they played the ball out from the back, how they took free kicks, how they lined up across the pitch. No stone was left unturned.

With Tito, and now Roura, all of that has gone. Training involves much of the same work as before, with short, sharp rondos and other passing and positional drills, yet there is no clear plan like previously and players' mistakes are no longer corrected as they were with Pep. And those errors inevitably translate to the matches themselves.

On the pitch, the team has also lacked leadership. Carles Puyol is struggling to hold together a chaotic back four which has now conceded for the last 12 games and looks off the pace himself, while Xavi and Lionel Messi have not stepped up like leaders in the way the club had hoped, either. On an off the pitch, the team is in disarray.

Vilanova (who is said to be feeling guilty and responsible for Barca's poor recent results) is expected to be away until the end of this month, meaning he will miss the game at Madrid on Saturday in La Liga and the Champions League second leg at home to Milan in mid-March. By the time he comes back, his side may have just the league to play for.

In the meantime, Barca president Sandro Rosell has flown to New York for talks with his coach. There will be plenty to discuss.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/03/01/3788505/why-roura-is-out-of-his-depth-and-barcelona-miss-guardiola
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found and read this on goal.com few days ago regarding the coaching philosophy between pep, tito and roura. quite an interesting read while i mostly agree with the whole text i also disagree with some parts, but all in all a good read with some things to think about.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by Zealous on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:21 pm

Obviously there is a lot to be said for drilling the team and keeping them focused but even then Barca still had the same weaknesses at the start of the season.

You won one game against us but poor defending in the first game of the super cup was what cost you the tie. The second leg was also clear example of poor defending.

Your game against Depor was a great example of a poor defence and taking pride in beating Valencia and Sevilla this season is not something to be proud of. Villa played against Madrid, he did very little. It probably seemed like a lot because Iniesta in that position produced even less. My point is that Barca aren't exactly tactically flexible this season. They only ever going to set up in one way, all that will change are the names because you simply don't have that many options to work with. It's Messi playing well or bust.

Obviously Tito is better than Rours, obviously. But He might still have not changed things. Making that assumption is natural for you but not a given at all. Not when the weaknesses that have been exploited have been there since arguably last season.

As for Tito telling Roura what to do by telephone. Why doesn't he do that more often? What if he actually is? Would that change things?

I'm not trying to validate anything, Madrid's victory is legit and in the record books. No excuses will erase the last two results. I'm just saying Barca's solution may be a bit more complicated than just Tito coming back.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by eelir on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:40 pm

zeal no one is saying Tito has a magic wand. Our defense sucked even when he was here. But at that time the team functioned and we could score a ton. Right now, with Roura defense sucks even more and the rest of the team is not a team.
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by Zealous on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:53 pm

@eelir wrote:zeal no one is saying Tito has a magic wand. Our defense sucked even when he was here. But at that time the team functioned and we could score a ton. Right now, with Roura defense sucks even more and the rest of the team is not a team.

I can see your point. It could just be a motivation thing, but has it gotten to a point where Tito coming back wouldn't necessarily fix that?

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by harhar11 on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:09 pm

@Zealous wrote:
I'm not trying to validate anything, Madrid's victory is legit and in the record books. No excuses will erase the last two results. I'm just saying Barca's solution may be a bit more complicated than just Tito coming back.

Who here is saying that your victory is not legit? We are having a discussion about whether or not Roura is out of his depth, because if he is then it will cost us even more in future.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Franchise on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:13 pm

The soulation may be more complex than bringing Tito back, but that isnt the question.

The question was, is him leaving/ Roura arriving the biggest problem and what brought it on and the answer can only be yes.

Villa played Madrid and it did very little, but that was incredibly predictable..the team had been distablized by then.

If taking pride in beating Valencia and Sevilla is unacceptable then perhaps we should play the Deportivo defending as a one off too? No, that would be silly...every game has a meaning, something to look for.

The point in making was, they are capable teams and with Tito we overcome them and we overcame you and other tough games...so the logic that somehow we were this bad all along and we finally got exposed (which you seem to be trying to sell) is clearly wrong.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by danyjr on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:33 pm

The question is indeed more complex than bringing Vilanova back. Barcelona would definitely be a better team in his hand than Roura's but I have to go back to the question I asked at the start of the season: was he even the right man from the start? I'd say he's better as an assistant coach than the main man as I think he's not very good on the psychological side of things. That is my personal feeling.

As pointed out previously however, Barcelona's problems are deeper than having Roura on their bench. Their defence has been in dire need for a world class CB/LB for two years and the board decided to promote Bartra (whom they obviously don't trust very much) and Song (who played a few matches as CB at Emirates with all of them ending up with Arsenal losing, not to mention he's never ever been good at defending even when deployed as a DM).

The problems with width has always been an issue with teams who park the bus, airplane or whatever, and it is not a problem exclusive to Barça. Any team would struggle to break a team's 10-man defensive line. You can see that with Spain, Arsenal, even Madrid haven't been the same attacking workhorse as last year because opposition have learned to put more men behind the ball and not allow them to counter attack.

So, yes the problems persist. If you look at the goals that Barcelona have been conceding in the past couple of seasons, most have been on air and set-pieces (especially against bigger teams) and quick counters. As futbol already mentioned in a post down General forum, conceding goals has a lot to do with Barcelona pushing too many players forward and the fact that it is always Barça who has to 'create' while the opposition is happy to sit back and soak up the pressure, waiting for a mistake to launch a quick counter.

Personally I've barely seen Busquets making interceptions these days as he plays too far forward that he is put out of the equation straight away when a quick counter initiates. Having both Alba and Alves on the same team has also messed with the balance Barcelona had with Abidal, a more defensive minded wing back.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:11 am

I have a bigger problem with Busquets in the air overall.

Though I agree with your entire post, just adding to it.

Busquets loses a few too many balls in the air, if the opponant is going to go long he has a responsibility to win his fair share of aerial balls. But too often he doesnt and the opponant end with with one single pass, with the ball in our defensive third.

Its a smaller problem compared to the ones you pointed out of course.
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by danyjr on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:23 am

He was never good in air though, was he?

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:35 am

Well I would say he was alright.

He beat guys who he should beat, didnt beat guys his size.

I dont think Ozil should compete with him much, nor Benzema who is a notorisously bad header of the ball and puts little effort...both have done recently.
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by Donuts on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:19 am

I think if Buscuit needs to eat more to build more muscle in his body, it's not like he is fast and strength would greatly benefit him in my opinion.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:35 am

He has excellent agility though. That's one of his main strengths

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by CBarca on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:53 am

Busquets doesn't need strength. He has a brain.

I can't remember ever seeing Busquets out-muscled.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by Donuts on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:38 am

He would add more quality to defending corners as he can actually hold his ground and push people around, currently that is not the case, strength and brains is a good combination.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by danyjr on Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:01 am

Haven't seen him get outjumped by Özil but if that's true then GG...

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by Zealous on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:54 am

@CBarca wrote:Busquets doesn't need strength. He has a brain.

I can't remember ever seeing Busquets out-muscled.

There's a joke about diving here that I could make. But I won't eco smile

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Franchise on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:53 pm

@danyjr wrote:Haven't seen him get outjumped by Özil but if that's true then GG...

I wouldnt really say outjumped, neither barely got off the ground but yeah..hes got win those every time.
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by CBarca on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:40 pm

@Zealous wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Busquets doesn't need strength. He has a brain.

I can't remember ever seeing Busquets out-muscled.

There's a joke about diving here that I could make. But I won't eco smile

People need to stop acting like Busquets is still a diver.

I haven't seen Busquets dive in over a year. Diving was never his thing anyway- he playacted more than dove and I haven't seen him do that in quite a while either.

I get it, you guys don't like him, but to say he's still a diver or play actor these days is...just incorrect.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by shinigami99 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:17 pm

@CBarca wrote:
@Zealous wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Busquets doesn't need strength. He has a brain.

I can't remember ever seeing Busquets out-muscled.

There's a joke about diving here that I could make. But I won't eco smile

People need to stop acting like Busquets is still a diver.

I haven't seen Busquets dive in over a year. Diving was never his thing anyway- he playacted more than dove and I haven't seen him do that in quite a while either.

I get it, you guys don't like him, but to say he's still a diver or play actor these days is...just incorrect.

This, evidence suggests that Busquets has not really playacted/diving in quite a while. It was very subtle, like only now that I think about it, I haven't seen it that much.

But the damage is done, and you guys hate him, no matter if he doesn't dive in 10 years, he will always be a diver in the minds of you guys.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Sanchez on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:57 pm

Has Busquests ever dived? Its ususally playacting and he has neither done either for a long time.

Btw, this isn't a Busquests thread, move somewhere else. Where talking about Roura here.
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by Donuts on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:49 am

@Zealous wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Busquets doesn't need strength. He has a brain.

I can't remember ever seeing Busquets out-muscled.

There's a joke about diving here that I could make. But I won't eco smile
I say the same joke every time someone says Ronaldo's physical attributes matter when the wind is able to push him.

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by The Sanchez on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:02 am

@Donuts wrote:
@Zealous wrote:
@CBarca wrote:Busquets doesn't need strength. He has a brain.

I can't remember ever seeing Busquets out-muscled.

There's a joke about diving here that I could make. But I won't eco smile
I say the same joke every time someone says Ronaldo's physical attributes matter when the wind is able to push him.

Laughing
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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

Post by eelir on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:23 pm

This sums it up well Laughing

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Re: Roura!! Barcelona's assistant manager.

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