Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Zealous on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:00 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Modric won't be able to shield the defense like Alonso, however we don't need to stick to the same system.

Currently we have the equivalent of a DM (Khedira) at CM as a B2B and a playmaker at DM. We could just swap them around so Modric (playmaker) is at CM and we get a DM to play DM.

Khedira isn't a DM lol he's a pure box to box player.

We're nnot going to change our whole style for one player. If Modric can't cut the mustard he'll have to compete with Ozil at AM.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Onyx on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:18 pm

I guess it depends on who's the manager as well. Since Mourinho's most likely leaving we may change system next year. Plus there'll be players coming and going.

Also I don't think we'd be completely changing our style. It'd still be a 4-2-3-1.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Zealous on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Exactly so nothing changes. Modric will still have to learn how to play as part of a "2"

Khedira is an expert at it but Modric will still have to figure it out.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Khedira should be benched, please.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Cyborg on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:44 pm

Zealous wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Modric won't be able to shield the defense like Alonso, however we don't need to stick to the same system.

Currently we have the equivalent of a DM (Khedira) at CM as a B2B and a playmaker at DM. We could just swap them around so Modric (playmaker) is at CM and we get a DM to play DM.

Khedira isn't a DM lol he's a pure box to box player.

We're nnot going to change our whole style for one player. If Modric can't cut the mustard he'll have to compete with Ozil at AM.

exactly.

and modric is way below ozil's quality when he plays in that position.

but the thing is even if alonso stays we will sign another midfielder in the summer.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:16 pm

Khedira is a "more defensive b2b", in the mood of Vieira. He's by no way like you characterize him, like Gerrard for example.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:01 pm

Viera and Khedira in the same sentence rofl

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Zealous on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:35 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Khedira should be benched, please.

Who would you play instead of him?

When it comes to transition from attack to defence and vice versa he is a huge part of our system. I don't think many players could just walk in and do what he does.


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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:45 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Viera and Khedira in the same sentence rofl

What do you have against Khedira ? Or what don't you like about him ?

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by FennecFox7 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:53 am

Because khedira isn't a midget la masia graduate that has close control

That's why nick doesn't like him

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:11 am

Giggity5313 wrote:Because khedira isn't a midget la masia graduate that has close control

That's why nick doesn't like him

one of the guys who say that Iniesta is as good as Ronaldo or that Ronaldo couldn't play in Barca ? oh ...

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:14 pm

i have said many times that Khedira has played a lot better than Alonso this year btw lol, the reasons i dont appreciate players in his style have nothing to do with whether he is a good player or not. He simply doesnt fit my midfielder guide.


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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:07 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:i have said many times that Khedira has played a lot better than Alonso this year btw lol, the reasons i dont appreciate players in his style have nothing to do with whether he is a good player or not. He simply doesnt fit my midfielder guide.


what's your midfielder guide ? no offense Proud

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:54 pm

dont feel like writing long paragraphs, but whatever kind of midfield khedira is, doesnt fit in there. mids void of technical abilities and without ability to influence or change the outcome of a game, whether it is defensively or offensively, are of no interest to me.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Onyx on Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:00 pm

Khedira is a good B2B player, however if we want to play a better possession game, then Modric would be better suited to the CM position. Khedira can't do what playmakers can do.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Cyborg on Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:52 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Khedira is a good B2B player, however if we want to play a better possession game, then Modric would be better suited to the CM position. Khedira can't do what playmakers can do.

no one ever said khedira is a playmaker.

on this forum we like to say 'box to box' a lot but i dont know if you know what that means.

box to box is simply a player who can do everything in the midfield. a box to box player may not be the best at specific things, but has a wide range of qualities

for example khedira may not have the ability to pass the like a deep lying midfielder or run pass players like winger or slip a perfect through ball or score goals like a attacking midfielder or push player of the ball like a defensive mid. He may not be the best at these but he can do all of them. Thats why he is important to real madrid and germany.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Onyx on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:01 pm

Originally I think Khedira was simply a defensive B2B to complement Alonso, however I think his attacking has improved over the years.

Although I don't think he's capable of being that player that dominates a midfield. I know that isn't his job, but I think having a playmaker at CM is better than having a B2B. It's not that Khedira isn't good enough, it's just having a playmaker at CM is an alternative option to having a B2B.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Cyborg on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:20 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Originally I think Khedira was simply a defensive B2B to complement Alonso, however I think his attacking has improved over the years.

Although I don't think he's capable of being that player that dominates a midfield. I know that isn't his job, but I think having a playmaker at CM is better than having a B2B. It's not that Khedira isn't good enough, it's just having a playmaker at CM is an alternative option to having a B2B.

you realise that he plays alongside someone else. he doesnt play in the midfield by himself. you have alonso alongside him. its a two man midfield with ozil making it three.

you dont consider alonso a playmaker?

and you have to remember that the team has to be balanced. two alonso's would make no sense. two modric's would be ridiculous. you have to keep that in mind.

and that brings me to the real debate who should replace alonso if he leaves. who should partner khedira.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Onyx on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:04 pm

Cyborg wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Originally I think Khedira was simply a defensive B2B to complement Alonso, however I think his attacking has improved over the years.

Although I don't think he's capable of being that player that dominates a midfield. I know that isn't his job, but I think having a playmaker at CM is better than having a B2B. It's not that Khedira isn't good enough, it's just having a playmaker at CM is an alternative option to having a B2B.

you realise that he plays alongside someone else. he doesnt play in the midfield by himself. you have alonso alongside him. its a two man midfield with ozil making it three.

you dont consider alonso a playmaker?

and you have to remember that the team has to be balanced. two alonso's would make no sense. two modric's would be ridiculous. you have to keep that in mind.

and that brings me to the real debate who should replace alonso if he leaves. who should partner khedira.

Yeh I know he plays alongside Alonso, however Alonso is always deep and Ozil is a AM/at AM. The CM spot is an important spot for a team. Having a playmaker there means there's a better chance of dominating, as opposed to a B2B. Since a playmaker can dribble better, pass better etc.

Khedira was bought to complement Alonso imo, so he doesn't have to be a certain starter if Alonso's gone.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:09 pm

who should partner Khedira? that sounds we are building around him lol, he is nowhere near that good.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by chad4401 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:31 pm

i think what nick is saying once teams shut down xabi or any other play maker cm we get to be his successor, we end up with khedira open but he doesn't have the skill set to take over play maker duties thus ozil drops deep into midfield or stays up top and everything becomes disjointed

with a more mobile players like modric and casemiro covering more ground and distributing together(modric more so) our team was flowing a lot better in transition plays or keeping the ball, now imagine this with a better player than casemiro!!!, not that he is better than khedira

i like khedira just like the next guy but if we want to be more dominate in midfield control its either 3 man mid or khedira prob loses his spot to more overall technical player

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by FalcaoPunch on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:36 pm

Canales scores a goal in the (4-0 as we speak) over Malaga.
And 34 minutes in looks like he got hurt again and subbed off.


Poor guy has had terrible luck with injuries.
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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Zealous on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:34 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:dont feel like writing long paragraphs, but whatever kind of midfield khedira is, doesnt fit in there. mids void of technical abilities and without ability to influence or change the outcome of a game, whether it is defensively or offensively, are of no interest to me.

It's pretty obvious you don't really focus on our games when you say something like this.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Zealous wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:dont feel like writing long paragraphs, but whatever kind of midfield khedira is, doesnt fit in there. mids void of technical abilities and without ability to influence or change the outcome of a game, whether it is defensively or offensively, are of no interest to me.

It's pretty obvious you don't really focus on our games when you say something like this.
we had this argument a year ago zealous, you know very well where i stand on this issue.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by FennecFox7 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:09 pm

likeastar wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:Because khedira isn't a midget la masia graduate that has close control

That's why nick doesn't like him

one of the guys who say that Iniesta is as good as Ronaldo or that Ronaldo couldn't play in Barca ? oh ...

I said ronaldo can play in barca. If only you could read as well as you can spell.. oh wait..

Your first line was right. It's not that ronaldo is bad, its that iniesta is massively underrated. I mean we are talking about someone who is compared to zidane. But enough on that.

Technique is not the only thing a midfielder needs btw..


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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

Post by Valkyrja on Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:54 pm

Giggity5313 wrote:
likeastar wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:Because khedira isn't a midget la masia graduate that has close control

That's why nick doesn't like him

one of the guys who say that Iniesta is as good as Ronaldo or that Ronaldo couldn't play in Barca ? oh ...

I said ronaldo can play in barca. If only you could read as well as you can spell.. oh wait..

Your first line was right. It's not that ronaldo is bad, its that iniesta is massively underrated. I mean we are talking about someone who is compared to zidane. But enough on that.

Technique is not the only thing a midfielder needs btw..


I was talking about him, not about you. And IMO Iniesta is overrated.

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Re: Gundogan, Borja Valero, Sahin, Schweinsteiger?

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