Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Casciavit on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:01 pm

How was Cou's performance today? Wondering whether I should download the match hmm

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by iftikhar on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:10 pm

At least one of the Suarez, Coutinho or Jhonson efforts should have gone in. In a different game it might have cost us two (at least) points. However the performance has good. Pleasent, flowing football. Suarez tends to pass the ball from deep (10-20 yards from box) but not from the edge of the box. This wastes some opportunities and are telling in tougher games.

Coutinho!!! Hate to think Voronin wore the same number.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:51 am

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:My god we are such a soft f*cking team. A bunch pansies out there. Where is the grit ff?

Downing is invisible. Pissed me off so much today. Suarez should've scored. That was the weakest shot I've eve seen. Carra is being made a bitch out of by Benteke. Lucas, Gerrard, and even Hendo have been all poor. We're not even dominating this scrubby Villa midfield with all three of them playing. And Reina could've saved that goal.

Coutinho our best player imo.

He's been playing like that for the last three months! We've just been getting results to cover him up. Again, nobody saying anything about him after we win. In fact praising him because he did well against the "boos". I honestly don't know why Downing is regarded as a good player let alone Liverpool quality but the love-fest needs to stop!

Carragher could of given away a penalty on four different occassions last night. He was holding Benteke every time they went into the box. He was also at fault for their first goal. Martin will continue to sit on the bench next week though.

Also, I disagree with Henderson being poor in the first half. He was the only midfielder that had presence. The midfield was quite even in the first half, but it would of had been overrun if it wasn't for Jordan.

Benteke is an absolute freak. I first saw his quality in his first game and you just knew he was going to be class. It's taking people a good 8 months or so but they're finally seeing his quality. He's made our whole back-line look like schoolboys yesterday and he's only 22!

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:53 am

Nishank wrote:Coutinho is amazing in attack, Sh*t in defense. Glad Sterling was brought on, At least he did his defensive job properly.

Henderson <3

Coutinho's role is to be AMAZING in attack. He's not supposed to defend at all. Not too sure why people can't understand that. Even then, he does track back and helps he does well. He just found it difficult height wise last night.

He should of scored moments before we got the penalty just stabbing it inches side. His assist to Henderson opened up the game and put us back in the game. Gerrard for me was MOTM, but Luis and Cou fight out for second.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:58 am

Arquitecto wrote:Beautiful game it must be said. It may only be a lowly Aston Villa who are quite frankly, an atrocious team yet the performance deserves credit, especially Steven Gerrard, who is in the form we have waited over 2 years for him to return to. Watching him as the general of our players and ply his midfield dynamo heroics, is truly a sight to behold. Other players to mention were Henderson, Coutinho, Enrique and Lucas, and Luis all who were near flawless.

Villa were tougher then I expected and exploited our fullback frailties today well when using N'Zogbia and another wide player (Bannan) in what seemed like a 4-3-1-2 (?) to cause us a deal of trouble, to which Gerrard dealt with well in pushing us back into the game.

Win would have been more satisfying if we didn't get decimated vs SOTON yet I'm glad to see another entertaining performance by the boys.

YNWA.

I was expecting a 3-0+ smashing myself. But you could see how much it meant for the Villa players to help push themselves out for promotion. That was a good solid win. Villa had more intent to win the game yet we came out with 3 points.

I feel Wisdom should start for Johnson next game. Glen looks way too tired to be playing 90 minutes consistently.

Also, I feel Rodgers needs to learn how to make a sub. We were up for a good 20+ minutes, a sub should of came on to waste time in injury time. Thank God Benteke was offside.

I also feel Enrique didn't too well last night. Was very sloppy in possession and didn't look himself in the first half. He did okay at defending in the second half but we could of easily conceded when Weimann hit it over. (The cross that was drilled in from Enrique's pocket... attacker had not one man on him.)

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:01 am

Lastly, when Luis Suarez broke on a counter in the first half with Stewie Downing to his right. You can bet a good amount of money if Stewie was either Gerrard, Coutinho or Sturridge etc Luis would of passed to him. Instead he takes on three men and gets a shot off. A weak shot, and should of passed it through. But it just goes to show that Luis has no confidence in LFC fans poster boy. :coffee:

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Nishankly on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:01 am

ynwa wrote:
Nishank wrote:Coutinho is amazing in attack, Sh*t in defense. Glad Sterling was brought on, At least he did his defensive job properly.

Henderson <3

Coutinho's role is to be AMAZING in attack. He's not supposed to defend at all. Not too sure why people can't understand that. Even then, he does track back and helps he does well. He just found it difficult height wise last night.

Most/all of Villa's chances were either long hoofs or crosses from the wings, Playing against Benteke in the center and knowing our history of dealing with Large forwards, I would much rather have some who can track back more even if you don't seem its an issue. Coutinho has to track back, Regardless of how good he is in attack. He has the potential to be an amazing player but he has to add/develop this part of his game as well. He is young and will only learn these things with time.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:59 am

I think Coutinho tracks back just fine. Outside of this game he was consistently tacking back and helping Enrique in his other appearances. Rodgers may have given him specific instructions to stay up.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Arquitescu on Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:00 pm

ynwa wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Beautiful game it must be said. It may only be a lowly Aston Villa who are quite frankly, an atrocious team yet the performance deserves credit, especially Steven Gerrard, who is in the form we have waited over 2 years for him to return to. Watching him as the general of our players and ply his midfield dynamo heroics, is truly a sight to behold. Other players to mention were Henderson, Coutinho, Enrique and Lucas, and Luis all who were near flawless.

Villa were tougher then I expected and exploited our fullback frailties today well when using N'Zogbia and another wide player (Bannan) in what seemed like a 4-3-1-2 (?) to cause us a deal of trouble, to which Gerrard dealt with well in pushing us back into the game.

Win would have been more satisfying if we didn't get decimated vs SOTON yet I'm glad to see another entertaining performance by the boys.

YNWA.

I was expecting a 3-0+ smashing myself. But you could see how much it meant for the Villa players to help push themselves out for promotion. That was a good solid win. Villa had more intent to win the game yet we came out with 3 points.

I feel Wisdom should start for Johnson next game. Glen looks way too tired to be playing 90 minutes consistently.

Also, I feel Rodgers needs to learn how to make a sub. We were up for a good 20+ minutes, a sub should of came on to waste time in injury time. Thank God Benteke was offside.

I also feel Enrique didn't too well last night. Was very sloppy in possession and didn't look himself in the first half. He did okay at defending in the second half but we could of easily conceded when Weimann hit it over. (The cross that was drilled in from Enrique's pocket... attacker had not one man on him.)

Glen for me is a point of worry. When he plays I either don't see the motivation that we expect from him, OR that he is quite fatigued. Playing 90 for England & Liverpool, running up and down the flanks can be considerably taxing on your body. Wisdom would be a good idea.

Rodger's subbing has always been a weak point as its not just the timing of his subs but who to bring on for who. Its encouraging from him that at least he makes risky subs 2 at a time more frequently these days though

Enrique? Defensively for me he was excellent but I agree he was sloppy as his offensive problem this season has been that, he too often is looking for Suarez and no one else. Either its the product of his chemistry with Luis or that he needs to find better options (positionally)

Downing? You and I are the only Reds who still don't praise him. People only praise him due to the initial standard he set (which was LOW) & since he is marginally performing above that standard, therefore he deserves praise Laughing So we praise him just for tracking back for the defensively average Johnson?

All I see is him being outperformed by his counter-part on his flanks (Coutinho or ANYONE else), influencing the game very little, relying on his same repertoire of moves as you would have thought Kenny's idea to stick him on the right would have made him less predictable....it didn't. He simply is not on the same wavelength as the other players.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:00 am

Most/all of Villa's chances were either long hoofs or crosses from the wings, Playing against Benteke in the center and knowing our history of dealing with Large forwards, I would much rather have some who can track back more even if you don't seem its an issue. Coutinho has to track back, Regardless of how good he is in attack. He has the potential to be an amazing player but he has to add/develop this part of his game as well. He is young and will only learn these things with time.

This is exactly where everybody is getting it wrong. His job IS NOT TO DEFEND. Regardless if Villa are hoofing it long or not. His job is not to mark Benteke. He has his own role to create chances in our final third - which he does efficiently. This is exactly the reason why people are claiming at Stewart Downing as a top player. I won't be surprised if people start proposing Daniel Agger as our left winger soon so he can help out in defence too.

Also, this:
Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:I think Coutinho tracks back just fine. Outside of this game he was consistently tacking back and helping Enrique in his other appearances. Rodgers may have given him specific instructions to stay up.

First game he wasn't tracking back and he's already getting slammed for it. And the worst part is that Cou was key in winning us the game.


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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:11 am

Arquitecto wrote:Glen for me is a point of worry. When he plays I either don't see the motivation that we expect from him, OR that he is quite fatigued. Playing 90 for England & Liverpool, running up and down the flanks can be considerably taxing on your body. Wisdom would be a good idea.

Rodger's subbing has always been a weak point as its not just the timing of his subs but who to bring on for who. Its encouraging from him that at least he makes risky subs 2 at a time more frequently these days though

Enrique? Defensively for me he was excellent but I agree he was sloppy as his offensive problem this season has been that, he too often is looking for Suarez and no one else. Either its the product of his chemistry with Luis or that he needs to find better options (positionally)

Downing? You and I are the only Reds who still don't praise him. People only praise him due to the initial standard he set (which was LOW) & since he is marginally performing above that standard, therefore he deserves praise Laughing So we praise him just for tracking back for the defensively average Johnson?

All I see is him being outperformed by his counter-part on his flanks (Coutinho or ANYONE else), influencing the game very little, relying on his same repertoire of moves as you would have thought Kenny's idea to stick him on the right would have made him less predictable....it didn't. He simply is not on the same wavelength as the other players.

It's definitely fatigue. I mean, he's covered the most ground in our team for the first 7 months now. He's needed to be rested since playing Zenit away yet continues to play. He still has that X-factor feeling in how he can do anything in attack but I do feel Wisdom needs to step in to calm down the defence abit. Just until Glen can start performing at 100% again.

He really needed to make a sub when we 2-1 up. Sterling coming on was good, but we needed to put someone else on. The pressure was on us and you can see the affect Villa had after Lambert made 3 changes. They look a different team and looked like they were going to equalize. If it wasn't superman efforts from captain fantastic, we would of dropped 2, potentially 3 points.

Enrique has been class this season. Not too sure why people wanted him sold at the start of the season when he wasn't getting games due to injury. I just felt he had a poor game out against Villa.

GJ is not average defensively lol. He's a lot like Dani Alves at Barcelona. GJ is basically our right hand side. We essentially play one player on that side. Downing is bar a few odd moments, invisible in attack. That puts a lot of pressure on GJ to do two different roles. He's our focal point on the right hand side and he needs to get back to defend. That's basically the reason he's so tired as he's been doing it consistently for the whole of this campaign. And it's now showing.

And that's exactly right. He's not on the same wavelength as others. He's been here for how long? Over 18 months now? And he's shown no effort to adapt to the players around him. I mean, Stevie G, our captain, who's came out time and time again saying he feels he's a CAM and that's his best position, playing in the middle of the pitch playing a Xabi Alonso-esque role for us and showing everyone affiliated at the club to do what's best for the team. Suarez? The same. Plays basically anywhere in the final third to let the likes of Borini, Sturridge etc settle. Downing? Does his awesome trait of continuining to try and take people on, finally does it after the 10th attempt, and floats the ball into an empty box and lifts his hands up in the air.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Nishankly on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:31 pm

ynwa wrote:
Most/all of Villa's chances were either long hoofs or crosses from the wings, Playing against Benteke in the center and knowing our history of dealing with Large forwards, I would much rather have some who can track back more even if you don't seem its an issue. Coutinho has to track back, Regardless of how good he is in attack. He has the potential to be an amazing player but he has to add/develop this part of his game as well. He is young and will only learn these things with time.

This is exactly where everybody is getting it wrong. His job IS NOT TO DEFEND. Regardless if Villa are hoofing it long or not. His job is not to mark Benteke. He has his own role to create chances in our final third - which he does efficiently. This is exactly the reason why people are claiming at Stewart Downing as a top player. I won't be surprised if people start proposing Daniel Agger as our left winger soon so he can help out in defence too.


Benteke? Why him, Cant Coutinho help out his full back a little more, Is it against his principles?
Anyways, If you think how he covered Enrique in that match is sufficient then lets just agree to disagree. No need to overstate.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:00 pm

ynwa tends to think that every team can play like Barcelona. On paper it indeed does sound extravagant but in actuality it is preposterous, especially in a league like EPL.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:09 am

Where have I ever mentioned that any team plays like Barcelona................????????????? I've only ever once compared our side to theres (not quality wise but playing style) as Rodgers has always modeled Barcelona and wants us to play a similiar style to them. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe in.

I'm sick of people having all sorts of wierd expectations for each role. Anybody in the front three is supposed to attack. Their job is not to defend. So I'm not sure why people continuously rate a player in the final third for their defensive work ethic and don't care about what they offer in the final third. It's ridiculous.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Nishankly on Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:13 am

ynwa wrote:Where have I ever mentioned that any team plays like Barcelona................????????????? I've only ever once compared our side to theres (not quality wise but playing style) as Rodgers has always modeled Barcelona and wants us to play a similiar style to them. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I believe in.

I'm sick of people having all sorts of wierd expectations for each role. Anybody in the front three is supposed to attack. Their job is not to defend. So I'm not sure why people continuously rate a player in the final third for their defensive work ethic and don't care about what they offer in the final third. It's ridiculous.

Coutinho has to track back, Regardless of how good he is in attack. He has the potential to be an amazing player but he has to add/develop this part of his game as well. He is young and will only learn these things with time.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:53 am

You've already said that. I've already replied to it. He doesn't HAVE to track back.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by RedOranje on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:56 am

ynwa wrote:You've already said that. I've already replied to it. He doesn't HAVE to track back.
He does though... Our system has consistently required the midfielders/attackers to both press and track back when necessary to provide assistance/cover for the fullbacks so that they can get forward.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Don't call me James on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:00 am

What Red said. It's a myth that Coutinho doesn't track back OR he doesn't need to. Rodgers requires all of his players to track back and defend their areas. Coutinho has been covering and helping Enrique on most occasions.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

Post by Red Alert on Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:35 am

@RedOranje wrote:
ynwa wrote:You've already said that. I've already replied to it. He doesn't HAVE to track back.
He does though... Our system has consistently required the midfielders/attackers to both press and track back when necessary to provide assistance/cover for the fullbacks so that they can get forward.

He doesn't though. Under Rafa yes, he would have too. But he doesn't need to under Rodgers. His job is to close down in the final third and pressure the oppositions defence. He doesn't need to cover Enrique though. That's Agger's job as he's the central defender on the left hand side. When Agger goes to cover Enrique, Lucas fills in the void of Danny Agger. It's the same thing for when Glen Johnson attacks. Skrtel or Carragher are supposed to cover him when he attacks and Lucas then fills the void for JC or MS. That's why a 3 man midfield is so crucial to us as Lucas is essentially a defender. Glen Johnson and Enrique do not attack at the same time - it's one at a time.

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Re: Birmingham's other Struggling Club v Merseyside's Might

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