FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by CBarca on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:14 am

And therein lies the humor.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Sanchez on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:29 am

Red please go Laughing
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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by BarcaLearning on Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:00 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Someone refresh my memory: have we ever played alexis centrally?

I don't think the thought even occurred to mgmt.

We did that around the start of his time here, his pace did well pulling defenders with him and trying to beat offside, he was more towards the central right, then Cesc/Iniesta worknig the left, Messi slight behind, it was asymmetrical, but havent seen that done in a long time now.
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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:56 am

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Someone refresh my memory: have we ever played alexis centrally?

I don't think the thought even occurred to mgmt.

Yes.

From the start no, but this season we played 3331 a couple end of games when we were down, with him in the middle.
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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by free_cat on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:04 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Someone refresh my memory: have we ever played alexis centrally?

I don't think the thought even occurred to mgmt.

Of course we have, as a target man at Osasuna and some other team this season, and Real Madrid (twice) and Chelsea last season.

He scored 2 vs. Real Madrid and did a lot of good runs. However, the idea of him being a usual feature as CF is foolish, dude can't finish.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:13 pm

@kiranr wrote:
While this, clearly, was not the best of the matches by Barcelona, let me just add some perspective. If i am not mistaken, this is the sixth consecutive semifinal appearance by this team. That alone is an awesome record in an era where most teams have 2-3 year cycles.

At this point, a La Liga and a CL semifinal is a pretty good return for the year, don't you think?

Exactly. A likely La Liga title. UCL semi finals (maybe even beyond), Copa semi final. It's been a very good season - much better than the last one. As has been said before we have been spoilt by success. I at least would like to commend the team on a very good season. That said most of my fellow Barcelonistas don't seem disappointed with what has been achieved. They are unhappy about the way we play in most of the matches and there they do have a point.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by alexjanosik on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:34 pm

A few points.
I dont see why pressing(or lack of it) is all of a sudden an issue.We havent pressed for 2 years and I have been banging my head about it for 2 years. Nothings changed.So its not a new issue.Its one that has existed for 2 years and its why we constantly end up playing big games on the back foot.

Secondly I dont see how free can conclude from this game that Messi is not the main reason for our not pressing.I think its pretty obvious that Messi is the main reason our pressing game is very poor.He doesnt press,which means that our CM's have to do his job and gradually it has come to the point that we have stopped pressing altogether.You have to realize that its not a tap that can be turned on and off.Intense pressing requires extreme tactical discipline to pull off and it cant be done on a whim.So its plain to me that our team didnt press because they havent done it for a long time,which again can be attributed to Messi not putting in the required effort.Also Fabregas is a headless chicken and has no clue about pressing intelligently.Much prefer Messi walking around to Fabregas laughable attempts to press as a forward.So for me its quite obvious that our pressing issues have a lot to do with Messi.

Regarding why the midfield didnt press.I think Busquets had a shocker. I think he was primarily concerned about Ibra and thats why he failed to pick up Pastore who had an astounding game.He made plenty of runs from the wings diagonally through the centre and there was no one there to stop him.In the end Busquets was caught in No Mans land and he ended up doing a poor job on Ibra too.
I disagree with dani that Busquets should have tracked Pastore though.That would have left Ibra free to run at our CB's with the two wingers making runs either side of him.I think this is where Tito should have stepped in.He should have asked Xavi to pick up Pastore's runs and asked Villa to pick up Maxwell.Their two midfielders were anyway not crossing the halfway line.So major tactical mistake from Tito.
I also think our pressing in midfield was affected by Xavi not being fully fit.He was clearly unfit and playing on painkillers and it showed.Didnt run as much as he normally does and was late to press.The criticism on him is a bit unfair.Messi rightfully got the plaudits for playing injured and getting us through.Xavi too has been playing injured for a while now and on painkillers.Still managed 100% pass completion and kept the ball well.

I was impressed by Alba.Defended pretty well and attacked smartly on a couple of occasions.Valdes had an excellent game too.Bartra looked very impressive after coming on.Just shows that we should have played him far more this season.

Messi showed character and champion mentality when he came on and pulled us through.Sign of a GOAT.Now if only he would run more in big games,things would be perfect.

Lastly I dont get the unfair criticism of the team and the negative attitude. Granted we didnt play great but we pulled through.Its the sign of a champion team.To pull through and grind out results even when playing badly.Manchester United have won title after title after title exactly due to this quality.Its called a champion mentality.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:08 pm

I didnt say track, but Pastore naturally came into his zone. Busquets was Ibra on the long balls, but when they started passing out from the back due to our lack of pressing, there was no longer a reason for Busquets to be on him,

Xavi could of got Pastore but then who gets Motta? Just giving them more time on the ball deep to play balls over the the top/in the channels.

Villa even coud of picked up Maxwell like we would expect, but that wasnt happening for whatever reason, so second to that Dani Alves picking him up higher (which actually also gives the team the jolt that we should be pressing, him that high up triggers everyone else) and Busquets on Pastore who was never threatening the flanks anyway,

As for the Champion mentality, as I said earlier, thats fine if its once in a while, but its consistent now. 1 Milan game and both PSG games its the same..so its not really champion mentalty and griting through, its playing like crap.

In terms of the pressing, yesturday was worse. Usually our pressing its effort, last season especially...but it wasnt just effort yesturday, it was a team who dont press consistently and looked confused as to how to do it.
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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by messixaviesta on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:10 pm

alex, outstanding post. We agree very strongly on multiple points which I will highlight now.

1. Fabregas was a complete waste of time on that night. Leave alone pressing he couldn't even stay in his position. People have been talking about which players had very bad games and for me Fabregas was one of the worst. He just shouldn't have been on the pitch. I have resisted saying this for a few days because it's a wonderful time in his personal life and for that he has my best wishes.

2. Very good explanation for why the team isn't mentally prepared to press. I never thought of this nor have I read it before. It seems in the Milan game with our lives on the line we just had to go for it but it's no longer a usual thing for us.

3. Xavi was clearly not fit. Statistically he may have had a perfect game but a fit Xavi could have done so much more. He deserves at least no less praise than Messi for fighting so hard against injuries for the sake of the team.

4. As you said Villa not staying on the right and trying to pick up Maxwell was a big mistake. I wonder why Tito didn't do anything about it. Compounded to that Alves came to the center one too many times and we really lose our shape.

5. I completely agree that we are a champion team with champion mentality. Do not ignore that this is the first time a team has made six UCL semi finals in a row. Don't dare call us underdogs or anything like that. Any team who faces us, no matter how much in form, will still be well wary of us, no question.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:11 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:Someone refresh my memory: have we ever played alexis centrally?

I don't think the thought even occurred to mgmt.

Of course we have, as a target man at Osasuna and some other team this season, and Real Madrid (twice) and Chelsea last season.

He scored 2 vs. Real Madrid and did a lot of good runs. However, the idea of him being a usual feature as CF is foolish, dude can't finish.

I should've been clearer - I meant as False 9. The position where he would've played without messi.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by alexjanosik on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:22 pm

@The Franchise wrote:I didnt say track, but Pastore naturally came into his zone. Busquets was Ibra on the long balls, but when they started passing out from the back due to our lack of pressing, there was no longer a reason for Busquets to be on him,

Xavi could of got Pastore but then who gets Motta? Just giving them more time on the ball deep to play balls over the the top/in the channels.

Villa even coud of picked up Maxwell like we would expect, but that wasnt happening for whatever reason, so second to that Dani Alves picking him up higher (which actually also gives the team the jolt that we should be pressing, him that high up triggers everyone else) and Busquets on Pastore who was never threatening the flanks anyway,

As for the Champion mentality, as I said earlier, thats fine if its once in a while, but its consistent now. 1 Milan game and both PSG games its the same..so its not really champion mentalty and griting through, its playing like crap.

In terms of the pressing, yesturday was worse. Usually our pressing its effort, last season especially...but it wasnt just effort yesturday, it was a team who dont press consistently and looked confused as to how to do it.

It was clear their midfielders werent crossing the halfway line.Besides our midfielders werent pressing them anyway.So what was the harm if Xavi would have picked up Pastore's runs and left Motta alone.Besides its Motta.He is not a great passer.Had Busquets tried to pick up Pastore he would have just passed it to Ibra who would then run at our defense. Granted Pique could have tried to close Ibra down but that comes with risk too.If Ibra got free that would leave Ibra and Moura vs Alba and Adriano. Something not very appealing.Overall considering the risk I think xavi should have been picking up Pastore's runs.

On the pressing,I disagree.We have not pressed well for a while now.Just look at our games against Madrid.We dont press their CB's allowing them to pass out from the back and then even in midfield they easily escape our press.But thats perhaps because of Fabregas playing in midfield.I agree that we looked like we didnt know how to do it but thats not exclusively down to this game.We have looked the same against Madrid.Its because we havent pressed for 2 years now.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:42 pm

Yeah, but just because they werent crossing the line doesnt mean they were not a danger surely?

Motta or Verrati can easily play balls over the top with no pressure. Motta might not be great, but if you give him time, naturally someone will eventually come to him (probably Iniesta) and then an easy pass to Verrati, who without question can.

Yes, if we are not pressing then what your saying is correct..but we were pressing, he were just so horrible at it one couldnt tell. Xavi and Iniesta arrived at those two midfielders, but it was late...rather than not arriving at all.

Ibra running at our defence? Why would we be worried by that? Pique in such a situation should go tight-ish to him making it a difficult turn and then Adriano covering up. If Ibra does that then thats on the centerbacks...but I dont see the need of 2 centerbacks standing there marking noone and waiting for of ball runs..1 yeah, thats a requirement, but two?

I think the problem with our discussion here is half is it based on hat we should do and half of it on what we was doing. If its what we should be doing then both us are right on different points and the same in terms of what we were actually doing.

Yes, we were equally poor vs Madrid, even the PSG and Milan first legs..but again, much of that to me was effort, but perhaps it time to rethink thats its only effort..but also mentality and practice.



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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by alexjanosik on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:34 pm

Well the big man running at our defense certainly did scare me.One or two times he did and looked very threatening.Also technically dani it wasnt 2 CB's standing there.It was 1 CB and a positionally suspect LB.So I wouldnt have been comfortable with Pique coming tight on Ibra leaving Adriano to mark runs.
IMO Ibra was basically in Busquets zone and I think he was more concerned about Ibra.I agree that in the end he tracked neither Ibra nor Pastore and was caught in No Man's land but imo he should have been concerned with Ibra.
If the LW makes diagonal runs with the ball through the center,then the RCM (Xavi in this case) should track him and the DM shouldnt leave his zone to track that player.
Now it leaves their 2 midfielders free.But as mentioned they werent crosssing the halfway line and if need be Fabregas should have dropped back to press one of them.As it was the more immediate danger was Paastore running diagonally with the ball so tracking it should have been first priority.
Lets just agree to disagree.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Franchise on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:55 pm

Well Ibra 1 v 1 yeah sure, but 2 v 1? If he gets spins on one defender, goes past him, past Adriano and scores...fair play to him, but more than likely that shouldnt happen.

I think if there is one thing at CB Adriano could cope with, its following runners using his speed. If you ask him to actually read balls in the box, challange aerial balls, play the offside trap...okay perhaps he cant dont do that, but play a spare man and cover a Lucas or Lavezzi run? I would of hoped he could of done that.

I agree about what you said with Xavi, but Pastores position was not starting from the LW, it was deeper and more center.

Would you agree that if we were pressing how we should, it wouldnt be Xavi's responsibilty?

Like for example against Madrid, when Ozil plays on the right and makes similar types of movement, it isnt Iniesta who has that responsibilty, he is up higher on Khedira...Abidal used to be the one following him in field.

But anyway, no matter, its much harder to discuss in writing. Sometimes I wish we could all sit and discuss around a chalk board or something Laughing
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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by RedOranje on Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:06 pm

@CBarca wrote:And therein lies the humor.
Glad you caught that... there have been a few on here who miss my jokes with alarming frequency.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Sanchez on Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:13 pm

Red Clubber I see what you did there...
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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by futbol on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:55 pm

I told you that half of the team wasn't fit. You could smell it from 3000 km distance. Busquets was as shaky as I've never seen him before and look 2 days laters:

"Official: Pinto (lower back pain), Busquets (hernia), and Messi (thigh) are not part of the match squad for tomorrow's game against Zaragoza"

Roura (assisant): "Hernia Busquets? At this time of the season, all players have some discomfort. Then you should see who better rests."

And:

Roura (assistant): "Due to the circumstances, Gerard (Pique) has played a lot lately. If we don't want injuries, he'll have to rest one..."

Literally the only player who didn't have any discomfort or didn't come back from a long injury lay-off for this game was Iniesta. The only player who played at his normal level. Surprise, surprise.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by Donuts on Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:49 pm

We are still sending a lot of first time players to tomorrows game, we should really start playing our B players.
for the next couple of La Liga teams we should really start changing up our lineup, give the bench warmers minutes and youngsters game time.

----------------------Valdes
--Montoya-----Bartra--------Abidal----Carles Planas
-----------------------Song
--------------Thiago----------Cesc
--Deulofeu----------Sanchez-----------Tello

Would also like to see JDS get some minutes whenever Cesc or Thiago are tired, Sergi Roberto as-well.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by The Franchise on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:18 pm

@futbol wrote:I told you that half of the team wasn't fit. You could smell it from 3000 km distance. Busquets was as shaky as I've never seen him before and look 2 days laters:

"Official: Pinto (lower back pain), Busquets (hernia), and Messi (thigh) are not part of the match squad for tomorrow's game against Zaragoza"

Roura (assisant): "Hernia Busquets? At this time of the season, all players have some discomfort. Then you should see who better rests."

And:

Roura (assistant): "Due to the circumstances, Gerard (Pique) has played a lot lately. If we don't want injuries, he'll have to rest one..."

Literally the only player who didn't have any discomfort or didn't come back from a long injury lay-off for this game was Iniesta. The only player who played at his normal level. Surprise, surprise.
@futbol wrote:I told you that half of the team wasn't fit. You could smell it from 3000 km distance. Busquets was as shaky as I've never seen him before and look 2 days laters:

"Official: Pinto (lower back pain), Busquets (hernia), and Messi (thigh) are not part of the match squad for tomorrow's game against Zaragoza"

Roura (assisant): "Hernia Busquets? At this time of the season, all players have some discomfort. Then you should see who better rests."

And:

Roura (assistant): "Due to the circumstances, Gerard (Pique) has played a lot lately. If we don't want injuries, he'll have to rest one..."

Literally the only player who didn't have any discomfort or didn't come back from a long injury lay-off for this game was Iniesta. The only player who played at his normal level. Surprise, surprise.

Yeah that includes the other teams too, poor excuses.

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Re: FC Barcelona vs Paris SG (2nd leg CL)

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:56 pm

Why is Xavi on the list if many here suspect him of being injured?

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